Paint problem

MarcusMaximus

Hi. Not really a DIY question but not sure where else to put this. We had a painter do our exterior window and door frames. He used an oil-based undercoat first of all which is fine but then he used Dulux Satinwood Pure White as the top coat. This is an interior oil-based satin paint which is designed for wood and metal including radiators. However he has used it on exterior wood. He claims that this will be fine and that he deliberately chose it because it is oil-based. I am worried that it's not right and will not last because I presume it is not designed for external use. Dulux have confirmed that this is the case.

I wonder if someone knowledgeable about paints could let me know whether this should be ok or not. He seems like a genuine person and has offered to give us a 5-year guarantee so if anything happens to the paint within that period he will re-do it. Otherwise I'll have to ask him to re-do it now with a suitable exterior paint.

Thanks.

FrancieBrady

MarcusMaximus wrote: »

Hi. Not really a DIY question but not sure where else to put this. We had a painter do our exterior window and door frames. He used an oil-based undercoat first of all which is fine but then he used Dulux Satinwood Pure White as the top coat. This is an interior oil-based satin paint which is designed for wood and metal including radiators. However he has used it on exterior wood. He claims that this will be fine and that he deliberately chose it because it is oil-based. I am worried that it's not right and will not last because I presume it is not designed for external use. Dulux have confirmed that this is the case.

I wonder if someone knowledgeable about paints could let me know whether this should be ok or not. He seems like a genuine person and has offered to give us a 5-year guarantee so if anything happens to the paint within that period he will re-do it. Otherwise I'll have to ask him to re-do it now with a suitable exterior paint.

Thanks.

IMO it will be a disaster in a short time.
The trend of using Satin anything on outdoor work is wrong for this climate. In a short time dark colours will develop a white bloom and will not protect woodwork.

I would recommend that he re-undercoats and glosses these. He may get away with sanding and glossing them. The satin won't last as a topcoat.

MarcusMaximus

Ok thanks for your reply. I would have thought a proper exterior Satin would have been ok though..
He is coming today to give us the 5-yr guarantee. What if we wait to see how it goes and then get him to re-do it if/when a problem develops? Or does that risk some sort of damage to the woodwork - is that not protected from the weather by virtue of the undercoat at least?

FrancieBrady

MarcusMaximus wrote: »

Ok thanks for your reply. I would have thought a proper exterior Satin would have been ok though..
He is coming today to give us the 5-yr guarantee. What if we wait to see how it goes and then get him to re-do it if/when a problem develops? Or does that risk some sort of damage to the woodwork - is that not protected from the weather by virtue of the undercoat at least?

The woodwork will remain protected for the life of the undercoat. 5 years would be a stretch imo. What are the windows made of? Hard or softwood?

MarcusMaximus

Sorry for the delay - caught up at work. Hard to know for sure but I think they are a hardwood. Would it make a big difference to how protected they would be?

I'm reluctant to ask him to re-do the job right now but will do so if necessary. I'd prefer to accept the guarantee and then call him back if a problem shows itself. However, I need to be realistic and do the right thing here.

Thanks again for your input.

FrancieBrady

MarcusMaximus wrote: »

Sorry for the delay - caught up at work. Hard to know for sure but I think they are a hardwood. Would it make a big difference to how protected they would be?

I'm reluctant to ask him to re-do the job right now but will do so if necessary. I'd prefer to accept the guarantee and then call him back if a problem shows itself. However, I need to be realistic and do the right thing here.

Thanks again for your input.

Hardwoods like teak and mahogany secrete an oil and require an aluminium wood primer before proceeding with normal undercoat and topcoat. Do you know if this was done?

Typically teak or mahogany will throw off ordinary undercoat no matter how well it was applied.

MarcusMaximus

No and that's another issue. There are some darker hardwood strips (not sure what exact wood) that were recently used to fix in our new double-glazed window panels and these were bare. He used undercoat diluted with white spirit as the 'primer' on those. I questioned this as well and asked him should he not be using aluminium primer but he said it was better to use oil-based and that the diluted undercoat was the 'same thing' as primer. I know that a lot of painters would say the same thing although it's not actually true, i.e. primer is not the same as undercoat. He was adamant about this and about the Satinwood as it too is oil-based. He claims that it will stand up to the weather better than the water-based exterior version would.

The main part of the frames were sanded down and then given one coat of undercoat followed by the topcoat, no primer as they had already been painted years ago.

I'm not going to get him to strip the whole lot back and start again, primer and all. He has given us a 5 year guarantee so hopefully we will spot any potential problem before it gets to damage the wood, which is my only real concern. When you say that the hardwood will throw off the undercoat because of the oil, is that something that would be visible if it occurs?

Incidentally I since phoned a national paint supplier who confirmed that the Dulux interior Satinwood is safe to use outside because it is oil-based. They said they get a lot of calls about it but that the same paint used to be specified for both interior and exterior use. That was only changed when they produced the water-based one specifically for exterior use. Go figure..

FrancieBrady

MarcusMaximus wrote: »

No and that's another issue. There are some darker hardwood strips (not sure what exact wood) that were recently used to fix in our new double-glazed window panels and these were bare. He used undercoat diluted with white spirit as the 'primer' on those. I questioned this as well and asked him should he not be using aluminium primer but he said it was better to use oil-based and that the diluted undercoat was the 'same thing' as primer. I know that a lot of painters would say the same thing although it's not actually true, i.e. primer is not the same as undercoat. He was adamant about this and about the Satinwood as it too is oil-based. He claims that it will stand up to the weather better than the water-based exterior version would.

The main part of the frames were sanded down and then given one coat of undercoat followed by the topcoat, no primer as they had already been painted years ago.

I'm not going to get him to strip the whole lot back and start again, primer and all. He has given us a 5 year guarantee so hopefully we will spot any potential problem before it gets to damage the wood, which is my only real concern. When you say that the hardwood will throw off the undercoat because of the oil, is that something that would be visible if it occurs?

Incidentally I since phoned a national paint supplier who confirmed that the Dulux interior Satinwood is safe to use outside because it is oil-based. They said they get a lot of calls about it but that the same paint used to be specified for both interior and exterior use. That was only changed when they produced the water-based one specifically for exterior use. Go figure..

Yes, you will notice it.
If the windows had previously been painted and there are no issues then u/c-ing them will be fine.
I would worry about the new strips. I think his theory of thinned down paint is fine on soft woods but a no no on teak or hardwoods.

My issue with Satins and Matts is that they look awful after a while in these climates, particularly the dark ones. I would accept thepaint company's assurances though.

If your windows are hardwood then normal weather won't undermine the wood. It is the paint finishes that will be the issue.

I would make sure your concerns about the 'primer' used are put in writing before accepting the 5 yr guarantee.

MarcusMaximus

Ok so the hardwood strips aren't likely to be damaged by the weather, i.e. prone to rot or anything, but the paint could peel off or some other visible sign of it not taking? In which case I am happy enough that he would honour the guarantee as it stands if that occurred. I will confirm this with him though.

The wording of the guarantee is as follows. He asked me to write it up myself as he is foreign and then he signed it! If I had known what you say about the primer re. hardwood I would have included that in the wording:

"This is to state that the painting work done to the exterior of no. 5 ..... will be guaranteed for a period of 5 years from the end of May 2018.

Should any problem with the painting arise in that period, particularly in relation to the use of a paint specified for interior use as the final coat on exterior timber, the painting will be re-done at no extra cost using a more suitable paint."

I know it doesn't specifically mention the primer but "any problem with the painting" ought to cover it. Talking to him I am pretty sure he would honour it. As I say I will confirm that though.

FrancieBrady

MarcusMaximus wrote: »

Ok so the hardwood strips aren't likely to be damaged by the weather, i.e. prone to rot or anything, but the paint could peel off or some other visible sign of it not taking? In which case I am happy enough that he would honour the guarantee as it stands if that occurred. I will confirm this with him though.

Yeh, that is what I mean. They would take a lot of weather untreated to rot.

The wording of the guarantee is as follows. He asked me to write it up myself as he is foreign and then he signed it! If I had known what you say about the primer re. hardwood I would have included that in the wording:

"This is to state that the painting work done to the exterior of no. 5 ..... will be guaranteed for a period of 5 years from the end of May 2018.

Should any problem with the painting arise in that period, particularly in relation to the use of a paint specified for interior use as the final coat on exterior timber, the painting will be re-done at no extra cost using a more suitable paint."

I know it doesn't specifically mention the primer but "any problem with the painting" ought to cover it. Talking to him I am pretty sure he would honour it. As I say I will confirm that though.

If you have that in writing, he is either going to honour it or flee the country.
Best of luck.

MarcusMaximus

Ah no! Can't be chasing the poor man back to his land of origin!

Good news hopefully about the Satinwood but fingers crossed on all counts.

Many thanks again for your help with this and have a great weekend.

Doc el brown

I have a problem with exterior wall paint pealing. 3 years ago I got the house painted and this year I noticed that it has bubbled in most places. I have scraped it off and repainted it. Im going to get the house painted a different colour and was wondering if there is something I can put on the walls like a primer to stop this happenng again. It didnt happen on the north facing gable end. Many thanks

FrancieBrady

Bubbling can mean water/moisture getting behind the paint skin. Hard to diagnose without seeing it. Are gutterings all working properly or is there any cracks where moisture may be getting in.
Is it a new build or has it been painted before?

Doc el brown

Hi FrancieBrady,

Thanks for getting back to me. The house is 15 years old. It has been painted before yes. 3 years ago I had a painter paint it and it is that coat that is coming off leaving a chalky substance on the wall. The gutters are working fine and there are one or two cracks but nothing out of the norm. Id say ill nees to bring the wall back to the plaster and prime it and then paint it again. What do you think.
Many thanks

FrancieBrady

Doc el brown wrote: »

Hi FrancieBrady,

Thanks for getting back to me. The house is 15 years old. It has been painted before yes. 3 years ago I had a painter paint it and it is that coat that is coming off leaving a chalky substance on the wall. The gutters are working fine and there are one or two cracks but nothing out of the norm. Id say ill nees to bring the wall back to the plaster and prime it and then paint it again. What do you think.
Many thanks

Typically it would not be easy or even possible to get masonry paint off to the plaster.
Sounds like your painter used a paint that didn't bond with the previous paint.
Take as much off as you can and bring a photo to a good paint shop and they can recommend a stabiliser/primer do it.
I have used a Pliolite masonry paint on bad walls like this and it is good stuff.

dok_golf

Either that or the surface below the last paint was compromised. You need to power wash properly, treat the surface with a stabiliser and use a decent paint then