Yellow Diamond Sign Posts in Ireland

Barney224

I'm sure this question has been asked before, but why did Ireland adopt the yellow diamond style warning signs, when the rest of Europe uses the red triangle styles?

GM228

Warning signs across most of Europe are in accordance with the specifications provided for in Annex 1 of the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals 1968 which is the red triangle type - Ireland never signed to the convention so never adopted them.

EdgeCase

I understand the timeline of how it happened, but I’ve never seen a valid reason for why we didn’t sign up to the Vienna Convention. It would be extremely expensive to replace all of those signs now. It would have made sense to have done it decades ago.

Ireland has a few oddities : driving on opposite side of the road, weird plugs/sockets, weird plumbing ... a lot of it is inherited from idiosyncratic UK standards but some of it, notably the road signs, is definitely an Irish brand of oddity.

Alun

Even despite other EU countries having signed up to the Vienna Convention, there are all manner of minor differences between each country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_European_road_signs#Major_differences_in_colour_codes

EdgeCase

So is CEE 7/7 the modern continental European standard.

There’s nothing wrong with either system and I can assure you millions of Germans and Swedes aren’t being electrocuted due to lack of enormous British plugs. The only time I see issues with continental systems is where they’re being used with obsolete (pre 1960s) sockets or some kludge like using CEE 7 plugs in non-standard sockets: Italy, Switzerland or Denmark which don’t use the normal standards either.

I can’t see any big advantage to the system we use tbh. It just has unnecessarily HUGE plugs on low power appliances.

However, to get back on topic :

I don’t see any reason for Ireland’s use of US-type diamond warning signs. It just doesn’t seem to make much sense and appears to be “just because”.

Lord Glentoran

The answer is straight forward enough - the Yellow diamonds were adopted in the mid 1950s, a decade before the UK adopted the triangles. Prior to that, Irish and British road signs were similar, with the only real difference being gaelic script.

Here's the 1926 Statutory Instrument with sample signs to give an idea of what we started with. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1926/sro/55/made/en/print

Stephen15

Another oddity is that our signs say the word Yield whereas the UK ones say Give Way and continental ones are just the same white triangle with no writing. Only the US ones say the words Yield on them. Remember NI Unionists complaining that a McDonald's in Belfast had a sign saying Yield when in The UK the sign should say Give Way.

Also older Yield signs have the words "Yield right of way" but they are being phased out and the newer ones just have the words "Yield". Very few remaining with "Yield right of way" on them.

Jamie2k9

Australia have yellow diamond, only real difference is the Give Way/Yield compared to Ireland.

The UK have almost every sign with a light is such as waste of energy. Yellow stands out more.

RTT

OSI wrote:

Whatever about the plumbing, the UK standard plugs and sockets are widely regarded as one of the best designs out there in terms of safety and functionality.

Yeah but not when you stand on one in your bare feet!!

Stephen15

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Australia have yellow diamond, only real difference is the Give Way/Yield compared to Ireland.

The UK have almost every sign with a light is such as waste of energy.

Black on white is clearer as to what the picture on the sign as to what the sign is actually warning motorists from. Road signs in Ireland are awful compared to the UK you'd easily get lost as as many are misleading. Why do we use cap locks on our sign posts when having the first letter a capital with the rest in clear lower case letters is easier to read.

EdgeCase

The diamond warnings actually give a bigger space for the symbol though compared to a triangle.

France also uses mostly all capital letters on signs too. I don’t find it that big a deal.

Irish signage has improved a lot over the last decade. Rural signage is still not great in a lot of places.

Wishbone Ash

Stephen15 wrote: »

....Also older Yield signs have the words "Yield right of way" but they are being phased out and the newer ones just have the words "Yield". Very few remaining with "Yield right of way" on them.

.....and some used to have 'Geil Sli' or something like that on them. I haven't seen one of those for many years. There was one on the end of our road when I was a child.

Del2005

Stephen15 wrote: »

Black on white is clearer as to what the picture on the sign as to what the sign is actually warning motorists from. Road signs in Ireland are awful compared to the UK you'd easily get lost as as many are misleading. Why do we use cap locks on our sign posts when having the first letter a capital with the rest in clear lower case letters is easier to read.

How is a warning sign misleading? I know that our direction signs are a joke, massive sign at a junction pointing to x town, 100m down the road and another junction with no direction signs. But our warning signs don't mislead.

Stephen15

Del2005 wrote: »

How is a warning sign misleading? I know that our direction signs are a joke, massive sign at a junction pointing to x town, 100m down the road and another junction with no direction signs. But our warning signs don't mislead.

I was more talking about our road signs in general

GM228

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

The answer is straight forward enough - the Yellow diamonds were adopted in the mid 1950s, a decade before the UK adopted the triangles. Prior to that, Irish and British road signs were similar, with the only real difference being gaelic script.

Here's the 1926 Statutory Instrument with sample signs to give an idea of what we started with. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1926/sro/55/made/en/print

Yes Ireland introduced the yellow diamond warning sign in 1956, these were based on the yellow signs introduced in the US under the 1942 "War Emergency Edition" of the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) published by the Public Roads Administration and became the standard design in the US ever since.

The UK actually introduced the red triangle warning sign in 1904 as a recommendation to local authorities under an order issued under S10 of the Motor Car Act 1903, it was originally a hollow red triangle with an information sign underneath, they became standard (i.e more than just a recommendation) accross the UK from1954 and then in their current form from 1968.

Barney224

GM228 wrote: »

Yes Ireland introduced the yellow diamond warning sign in 1956, these were based on the yellow signs introduced in the US under the 1942 "War Emergency Edition" of the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) published by the Public Roads Administration and became the standard design in the US ever since.

The UK actually introduced the red triangle warning sign in 1903 as a recommendation to local authorities under S10 of the Motor Car Act 1903, it was originally a hollow red triangle with an information sign underneath, they became standard (i.e more than just a recommendation) accross the UK from1954 and then in their current form from 1968.

Thanks for all the info guys! It's just something I thought about recently as I crossed the board into NI.

EdgeCase

It's still just a time line though, rather than an explanation as to why we didn't sign up to what was a pan-European attempt at harmonising road signs.

I am sure that there were probably plenty of other countries in Europe who were using well-established, reasonable systems of road signs in 1968 too. It seems we just totally opted out of harmonising, rather than that we had any logical explanation for not doing so.

There's nothing wrong with the yellow diamonds, but it's just clearly a case of Irish exceptionalism / opting out of cooperation.

I suppose though in 1968, we were still several years away from EU membership, so it probably didn't even register.

One of the other things I've always found odd, is that Ireland clung onto Imperial measurements for all sorts of things after independence. I'd always have thought that adopting the metric system would have been a quite symbolic way of stepping away from the old British history and into something mode modern, yet we seem to have been almost as slow as the UK to switch over on many issues, only managing to complete the road sign switch in the 2000s.

The single biggest issue I see with Irish road signs is the continuing use of red circles to mean things are 'advised / compulsory'. I know some of them are obsolete but, I still see new parking signage going up with P in a red circle = park here please.

To every other driver in Europe, anything in a red circle = forbidden.

We still also have quite a few old keep left signs which consist of a black arrow in a red circle on a white background, which to most drivers = do not turn left and is actually a potential cause of accidents.

I remember seeing a local roundabout somewhere (probably a few years ago) which had left pointing arrows in red circles on white backgrounds. To a continental driver that would potentially cause someone to turn right and go anticlockwise around the roundabout, thinking that left turns were banned.

The correct use should be white arrows on blue backgrounds, or white P symbols on blue backgrounds for parking.

Our use of a red circle, with the symbol crossed out is understandable, but we should absolutely never use the red circle to indicate a positive instruction.
I see it done ALL THE TIME in Irish private carpark signage too.

Other than the diamond shaped warning signs, which are really not a big deal, there's no reason why Ireland should be deviating from Vienna convention signage on everything else. There's no particular reason for ditching the yellow warning signs at this stage, provided the symbols are all recognisable.

The odd use of incompatible symbols on regulatory signs (i.e. keep left etc) are FAR more dangerous. Those signs should be actively removed and replaced as they are genuinely confusing.

I have noticed though that my car, which has sign reading capabilities, can only read Irish speed limits. It seems to ignore all the diamond signage. So, that's one area which could potentially be an issue in the near future as more cars become capable of reading the road.

GM228

EdgeCase wrote: »

It's still just a time line though, rather than an explanation as to why we didn't sign up to what was a pan-European attempt at harmonising road signs.

It wasn't a pan-European attempt, rather an international one.

Why does Ireland need to explain why? Should we ask the other countries of the world why they didn't adopt it either? Should we ask the EU states which didn't adopt - the UK, Spain and Malta for example to explain themselves?

EdgeCase wrote: »

I am sure that there were probably plenty of other countries in Europe who were using well-established, reasonable systems of road signs in 1968 too. It seems we just totally opted out of harmonising, rather than that we had any logical explanation for not doing so.

EdgeCase wrote: »

Other than the diamond shaped warning signs, which are really not a big deal, there's no reason why Ireland should be deviating from Vienna convention signage on everything else. There's no particular reason for ditching the yellow warning signs at this stage, provided the symbols are all recognisable.

The thing is most European countries had their signage established long before the convention (the convention did not come into force until 1978), I don't think many (if any - EU at least) countries specifically changed their signs to a type as par the convention, it just so happens the convention adopted the UK type and several other countries adopted the UK type also.

EdgeCase wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with the yellow diamonds, but it's just clearly a case of Irish exceptionalism / opting out of cooperation.

Far from it, it's clearly a case of sticking with what we already had like most other countries.

EdgeCase wrote: »

I suppose though in 1968, we were still several years away from EU membership, so it probably didn't even register.

EU membership has nothing to do with UN treaties.

EdgeCase wrote: »

One of the other things I've always found odd, is that Ireland clung onto Imperial measurements for all sorts of things after independence. I'd always have thought that adopting the metric system would have been a quite symbolic way of stepping away from the old British history and into something mode modern, yet we seem to have been almost as slow as the UK to switch over on many issues, only managing to complete the road sign switch in the 2000s.

But it's something around since the middle ages and something we were well used to, Ireland and the UK actually fought with the EU for about 20 years to keep imperial bar changing to km/h in 2005 which was a Government decision.

EdgeCase wrote: »

The single biggest issue I see with Irish road signs is the continuing use of red circles to mean things are 'advised / compulsory'. I know some of them are obsolete but, I still see new parking signage going up with P in a red circle = park here please.

To every other driver in Europe, anything in a red circle = forbidden.

I actually prefer the Irish signs as they only use a cross out when forbidden, in the UK they use a cross out on some and not on others even though both mean not allowed, surely that is more confusing.

EdgeCase wrote: »

We still also have quite a few old keep left signs which consist of a black arrow in a red circle on a white background, which to most drivers = do not turn left and is actually a potential cause of accidents.

I'm not sure I have seen any of those in years (at least havn't noticed), they were officially replaced 21 years ago.

EdgeCase wrote: »

Our use of a red circle, with the symbol crossed out is understandable, but we should absolutely never use the red circle to indicate a positive instruction.
I see it done ALL THE TIME in Irish private carpark signage too.

Red circle just means something is regulatory, both what is and isn't allowed is as a result of regulation.

Private car parks can do what they like with signage and that's the problem, they are not required to comply with legal requirements.

EdgeCase wrote: »

The odd use of incompatible symbols on regulatory signs (i.e. keep left etc) are FAR more dangerous. Those signs should be actively removed and replaced as they are genuinely confusing.

Agreed in the case of signs no longer in use.

EdgeCase wrote: »

I have noticed though that my car, which has sign reading capabilities, can only read Irish speed limits. It seems to ignore all the diamond signage. So, that's one area which could potentially be an issue in the near future as more cars become capable of reading the road.

That's an issue for the software provider to rectify rather than the state change every sign!

EdgeCase

Regardless of all of the above having signs that mean the complete opposite to all of our neighbouring countries, in a single market and single free flowing freedom of movement area is just unnecessarily stupid.

These things should be standardised across the EU to the level that confusion isn't possible.

Using a red circle as a positive regulatory indication is just pointless difference for difference's sake and being awkward - all of Cork City's parking signs for example and many of their taxi signs and I've even seen a bike in a red circle indicating a bike lane somewhere recently.

Our signage shouldn't be clashing with neighbouring systems like that even if we are not going to be completely in line with the agreed systems, we shouldn't be creating dangerous confusion.

Anyway do what you like!

Sorry for opening my mouth. Seems Ireland's always perfect and criticism is no longer allowed.

Jamie2k9

EdgeCase wrote: »

Regardless of all of the above having signs that mean the complete opposite to all of our neighbouring countries, in a single market and single free flowing freedom of movement area is just unnecessarily stupid.

These things should be standardised across the EU to the level that confusion isn't possible.

Using a red circle as a positive regulatory indication is just pointless difference for difference's sake and being awkward - all of Cork City's parking signs for example and many of their taxi signs and I've even seen a bike in a red circle indicating a bike lane somewhere recently.

Our signage shouldn't be clashing with neighbouring systems like that even if we are not going to be completely in line with the agreed systems, we shouldn't be creating dangerous confusion.

Anyway do what you like!

Sorry for opening my mouth. Seems Ireland's always perfect and criticism is no longer allowed.

Then we should drive on same side of road, there is no need for any changes. People visiting another country should research info themselves.

The only problem is the quality of drivers on the roads has declined significantly.

EdgeCase

Yes obviously: we should make life as difficult as possible for absolutely no reason.

Gives up and leaves thread.

GM228

EdgeCase wrote: »

Regardless of all of the above having signs that mean the complete opposite to all of our neighbouring countries, in a single market and single free flowing freedom of movement area is just unnecessarily stupid.

In which case you could say every single EU state not using the Euro in the single market is stupid, or driving on the left is stupid, or the colour of the lines painted on the road is stupid, or a three pong plug is stupid - the list could go on and on.

EdgeCase wrote: »

Using a red circle as a positive regulatory indication is just pointless difference for difference's sake and being awkward - all of Cork City's parking signs for example and many of their taxi signs and I've even seen a bike in a red circle indicating a bike lane somewhere recently.

Perhaps we should get rid of speed limìt signs, they have a red band and show the speed you can do

I like the way the Canadian regulatory sigs work, red band for prohibited and green band for what is allowed.

EdgeCase wrote: »

Our signage shouldn't be clashing with neighbouring systems like that even if we are not going to be completely in line with the agreed systems, we shouldn't be creating dangerous confusion.

Neighbouring signage should not be clashing with ours, we had ours first, so there

Seriously though, many things clash throughout Europe.

EdgeCase wrote: »

Sorry for opening my mouth. Seems Ireland's always perfect and criticism is no longer allowed.

What gives you that idea?

Sam Russell

EdgeCase wrote: »

Ireland has a few oddities : driving on opposite side of the road, weird plugs/sockets, weird plumbing ... a lot of it is inherited from idiosyncratic UK standards but some of it, notably the road signs, is definitely an Irish brand of oddity.

Driving on the left - we inherited that from the UK and because of NI could not change.

Weird plugs. Now that came about by grey imports. Originally, Ireland adopted German (Siemens) plugs and sockets because Siemens were the contractor for the Ard na Crusha project in Claire. However, a lot od grey imports on UK plugs were imported and installed illegally, but such was the volume the regulations were changed. Now there are different ways of implemented wiring in domestic situations and the German system is not compatible with the UK system. We now use the UK system. [The difference centres on ring main vs star arrangement].

The EU came out with an EU plug that was rejected by every country bar Brazil. Brazil uses this EU plug despite it having 110 v and 230 volt systems.

Plumbing. Now plumbing is interesting. The UK decided to go metric and replaced half inch pipe with 15 mm pipe. Simple enough. However, Ireland suffered a shortage of copper or some such and decided to stay with imperial - and still does. As a result, any plumbing fittings bought from B&Q or Homebase will not work with Irish fittings. So plumbing is idiosyncratic Irish standards. We also do other things with plumbing that are different from the UK.

So in some things, we have gone metric and others we have not.

Corca Baiscinn

EdgeCase wrote: »

Regardless of all of the above having signs that mean the complete opposite to all of our neighbouring countries, in a single market and single free flowing freedom of movement area is just unnecessarily stupid.

In which case you could say every single EU state not using the Euro in the single market is stupid, or driving on the left is stupid, or the colour of the lines painted on the road is stupid, or a three pong plug is stupid - the list could go on and on


Agee with Edge Case & don't think GM 228's ref to use of euro is a valid comparison. Edge Case was referring to something which could cause confusion and therefore danger on road, with something within a red circle meaning one thing in one jurisiction and another in a neighbouring one. Equally the colour of lines on the road is not valid eitherfor same reason

Yes if driving in another country we should do our research but think OP was saying that so much is harmonised these days that maybe compatbility in meaning of road signage would be a good idiea too

The amount of inter-country driving driving now, both commercial and leisure bears no comparison to the 50's and 60's so harmonisation wasn't a big deal then.

Interesting and informative thread, thanks Lord G and GM228. I never knew we hadn't adopted the Vienna Convention on Road signs but it explains how we now have another afaik "exceptional" road sign, ie the yellow rectangular one of children playing which has been introduced along with the 30 kph speed imit sign in housing estates. In other countries the sign is a blue one and indicates a "Play Street" ie cars are guests/drive at walking speed. We love irish solutions:rolleyes:

cml387

I'd just like to say that if you are interested in the subject, read "On Roads,A Hidden History" by Joe Moran.

In it (apart from other fascinating facts)a chapter is devoted to the design of motorway signs in the UK in the early 1960's and the painstaking method used to design a sign that was clear and legible at motorway speeds.

Jamie2k9

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

In which case you could say every single EU state not using the Euro in the single market is stupid, or driving on the left is stupid, or the colour of the lines painted on the road is stupid, or a three pong plug is stupid - the list could go on and on


Agee with Edge Case & don't think GM 228's ref to use of euro is a valid comparison. Edge Case was referring to something which could cause confusion and therefore danger on road, with something within a red circle meaning one thing in one jurisiction and another in a neighbouring one. Equally the colour of lines on the road is not valid eitherfor same reason

Yes if driving in another country we should do our research but think OP was saying that so much is harmonised these days that maybe compatbility in meaning of road signage would be a good idiea too

The amount of inter-country driving driving now, both commercial and leisure bears no comparison to the 50's and 60's so harmonisation wasn't a big deal then.

Interesting and informative thread, thanks Lord G and GM228. I never knew we hadn't adopted the Vienna Convention on Road signs but it explains how we now have another afaik "exceptional" road sign, ie the yellow rectangular one of children playing which has been introduced along with the 30 kph speed imit sign in housing estates. In other countries the sign is a blue one and indicates a "Play Street" ie cars are guests/drive at walking speed. We love irish solutions:rolleyes:

Then we should adopt the same rules of the road and also move from a common to civil law system.

We have more not in common than in common despite the common EU markets etc.

markpb

EdgeCase wrote: »

It would be extremely expensive to replace all of those signs now. It would have made sense to have done it decades ago.

I think this is the nub of the argument. It would cost a lot -now- so we should have done it years ago. I guess in 1968, they thought it would also have cost a lot. And pretty much any time someone suggests making changes to signposts, it will always cost a lot.

Plus there's a downside to changing. The majority of people on the roads are familiar with the signs as they are so the roads are relatively safe. Take away that familiarity and you introduce confusion while people adapt. During that time (which could be a long time), you reduce the safety on the roads for most people.

Barney224

markpb wrote: »

I think this is the nub of the argument. It would cost a lot -now- so we should have done it years ago. I guess in 1968, they thought it would also have cost a lot. And pretty much any time someone suggests making changes to signposts, it will always cost a lot.

Plus there's a downside to changing. The majority of people on the roads are familiar with the signs as they are so the roads are relatively safe. Take away that familiarity and you introduce confusion while people adapt. During that time (which could be a long time), you reduce the safety on the roads for most people.

We did it with the speed limit signs when we went fully metric. We're a small island, so it wouldn't cost as much as some of our larger neighbours. I also think the majority of drivers would be well used to the red triangle signage from travelling across the border as well as driving on the continent. Although, I could see a lot of drivers using it as an excuse for bad driving behaviour!

markpb

Barney224 wrote: »

We did it with the speed limit signs when we went fully metric.

Fair point.

Barney224 wrote: »

We're a small island, so it wouldn't cost as much as some of our larger neighbours.

I'm not sure this makes sense. If the UK wanted to change, it would cost far more but they have a larger population to pay for it. If a smaller country than Ireland wanted to change, it would cost less but they have a smaller population to pay for it.

Barney224 wrote: »

I also think the majority of drivers would be well used to the red triangle signage from travelling across the border as well as driving on the continent. Although, I could see a lot of drivers using it as an excuse for bad driving behaviour!

I'm not sure the vast majority of Irish drivers have been to NI or have driven abroad, certainly not extensively enough to be familiar with all the road signs.

GM228

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Agee with Edge Case & don't think GM 228's ref to use of euro is a valid comparison. Edge Case was referring to something which could cause confusion and therefore danger on road, with something within a red circle meaning one thing in one jurisiction and another in a neighbouring one. Equally the colour of lines on the road is not valid eitherfor same reason

I was talking about the idea of European standardization, but I'm not sure there is any evidence that different signs have a negative safety impact on road users, to say they do or might is nothing more than speculation.

For all we know if such research if ever done Irish signs may be found more user friendly and clearer in their meanings.

GM228

Barney224 wrote: »

We did it with the speed limit signs when we went fully metric. We're a small island, so it wouldn't cost as much as some of our larger neighbours. I also think the majority of drivers would be well used to the red triangle signage from travelling across the border as well as driving on the continent. Although, I could see a lot of drivers using it as an excuse for bad driving behaviour!

It cost the state €10M to change, and we only did it when the Government bowed to the EU after years of delay to do so as required under EU Directives 89/67/EEC and 80/181/EEC.

If it cost that much just for speed signs, imagine the cost of changing all others.

Sam Russell

You could apply the same logic to traffic lights.

We have the sequence - Red Green Yellow. Other countries differ. Denmark and UK have a more complex sequence.

We put the lights on both sides of the junction, other countries only plut them on the stop line. Foreign drivers here stop on the wrong line at lights intended for a different direction.

I do not think it causes as many deaths as drivers used to the RHS do when they gaily drive down the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic.

chewed

GM228 wrote: »

It cost the state €10M to change, and we only did it when the Government bowed to the EU after years of delay to do so as required under EU Directives 89/67/EEC and 80/181/EEC.

If it cost that much just for speed signs, imagine the cost of changing all others.

Most of our existing yellow signs are in such sh1te order as it is and need to be replaced!

Carawaystick

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

The amount of inter-country driving driving now, both commercial and leisure bears no comparison to the 50's and 60's so harmonisation wasn't a big deal then.

The amount of intercountry driving by Irish cars is much lower than on the continent, and one of the reasons not to bother with replacing diamond signs with triangles, which allow a smaller area to display the warning.

Charles Babbage

Irish signs were standardised relatively early on and pretty good job was done, so not much incentive to change.
Anyone who has driven on a cross-border journey at night will clearly see that the diamond is superior, many signs in NI have yellow backing plates just to try and draw attention to them. While I would normally favour standarisation around Euro standards, when unification comes the diamond should be the all Ireland standard, simply because it is better.

markpb

markpb wrote: »

I think this is the nub of the argument. It would cost a lot -now- so we should have done it years ago. I guess in 1968, they thought it would also have cost a lot. And pretty much any time someone suggests making changes to signposts, it will always cost a lot.

Plus there's a downside to changing. The majority of people on the roads are familiar with the signs as they are so the roads are relatively safe. Take away that familiarity and you introduce confusion while people adapt. During that time (which could be a long time), you reduce the safety on the roads for most people.

Changing road signs when they wear out or are damaged is a zero cost game, they need replacing anyway, so why not replace with the European style at that time.
As for confusion, very few people in Ireland are not familiar with the Triangle signs and in all cases the symbol in the sign is the same, the only different one would be the "no overtaking" signs.

Greybottle

Sam Russell wrote: »

Driving on the left - we inherited that from the UK and because of NI could not change.

.

Technically, the Romans introduced the "Drive on the Left" rule. Napoleon changed this to drive on the right for various reasons. he never came to the UK or Ireland, aso we stayed with the old system. He also never conquered Sweden, who famously drove on the left uunti laround 1960. You still see very old SAABs in Sweden with right hand drive.

cml387 wrote: »

I'd just like to say that if you are interested in the subject, read "On Roads,A Hidden History" by Joe Moran.

In it (apart from other fascinating facts)a chapter is devoted to the design of motorway signs in the UK in the early 1960's and the painstaking method used to design a sign that was clear and legible at motorway speeds.

James May did an excellent piece on this for Top Gear with the lady who co-designed the system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QypmXbwD1k

Another interview with her here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyBrrmDw6-k

whisky_galore

GM228 wrote: »

Yes Ireland introduced the yellow diamond warning sign in 1956, these were based on the yellow signs introduced in the US under the 1942 "War Emergency Edition" of the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) published by the Public Roads Administration and became the standard design in the US ever since.

The UK actually introduced the red triangle warning sign in 1904 as a recommendation to local authorities under an order issued under S10 of the Motor Car Act 1903, it was originally a hollow red triangle with an information sign underneath, they became standard (i.e more than just a recommendation) accross the UK from1954 and then in their current form from 1968.

The yellow/black scheme may have been a hangover from when the AA were putting up road signage until the co. councils took over. The Irish directional signs from about the early 1920s were yellow/black, bilingual and branded with the AA logo.

The warning signs were painted yellow and black and studded with small reflectors with a red warning triangle on top of the post.

A few of the round AA signs survive in their original locations, with distances to nearby and major towns with the motto 'Safety First'.

Greybottle

Greybottle wrote: »

Technically, the Romans introduced the "Drive on the Left" rule. Napoleon changed this to drive on the right for various reasons. he never came to the UK or Ireland, aso we stayed with the old system. He also never conquered Sweden, who famously drove on the left uunti laround 1960. You still see very old SAABs in Sweden with right hand drive

Spain, Italy and Belgium also drove on the left in the first part of the twentieth century.
Theta are probably other countries as well that switched sides.

EdgeCase

I personally see no reason why we would need to change the diamond signs. They work fine, as long as the symbols on them are similar, which they are.

The red circle thing seems to largely be a legacy of older signage manuals that some local authorities seem to still be stuck on.

Any of the remaining old red circles with arrows should be swapped out as a matter of safety policy as they are genuinely confusing.

I would also think keeping the Irish signage looking "alien" isn't the worst idea, as long as it's not using different symbols. The yellow signs and yellow likes do just that. It helps remind you that you're not at home driving on the right.

You can have it looking visually a bit different without causing incompatibility with the widespread Vienna convention systems.

---

I've seen the stop line issue a few times both here and in the UK with French drivers, used to stopping at the lights, not understanding that they need to stop as the line and ending up stopped in the middle of a junction at the "far side reminder lights". France uses small secondary traffic lights low down on the pole so the first driver can see them, rather than a second set across the junction or stop lines keeping you back. So the lights are usually the stop line.

The UK amber before green is used in Denmark, Iceland and a few odd places too. I never understood the logic of it as it tends to, in England anyway, cause people to jump through agressivly on green. Maybe it made sense with old cars that needed all sorts of odd clutching manouvers to get them into gear. It doesn't make sense nowadays, but it also doesn't cause confusion as the amber light still has the same meaning, regardless of when it's shown.

One BIG issue in Europe is the ambiguities about some countries allowing turning on red and some, like here and Britain, outright banning it.

It's good to see Irish local authorities now making a lot more use or amber filter lights though and the red arrow lights also help a lot here.

As well as those "drive on the right" reminders. They should have NEVER turn on red multi lingual signs at airports / car hire and ferry terminals.

Carawaystick

EdgeCase wrote: »

I would also think keeping the Irish signage looking "alien" isn't the worst idea, as long as it's not using different symbols. The yellow signs and yellow likes do just that. It helps remind you that you're not at home driving on the right.

Thats a valid point,
unless you're american

our yellow junction signs also can give much more information about irregular junctions, like 5way or those without a regular 90 degree cross road


One thing I have seen in a few places, are diamond signs used incorrectly to signal weight restrictions
this pole now has a diamond sign

EdgeCase

If you’re American, plenty of other signage looks alien.

Our road marking setup isn't the same as the US. They use a yellow line to mark the divide between opposite directions in the centre of a road and white for the hard shoulder and lane dividers.

We use yellow for the outer edge of the road - the total opposite to the USA actually.

Australia and NZ seem to follow UK / European conventions for marking paint.

Also US speed limits and so on are quite different to Ireland.

We've also adopted French style use of green reflectors ahead of junctions and those big plastic blue or green dividers on the division between the carriageway and slipways off motorways and dual carriageways.

Our newer overhead, single pole gantry exit signage also looks like something more akin to France than the UK or US. The UK still tends to mostly use ground mounted signs for those