Standardised testing in Senior Infants

Watergirl4

Hi all

I am a bit baffled by by children's school reports as both are going into classes next year where the classes will be split, both are in younger half of their classes age wise.

SI child is youngest in class and I have been given standardised results for him in English and Maths with cut off % listed beside his score - does anyone know what these are?

Despite being young, emotionally a bit immature, he has been placed with the older class for next year....which I would attribute to his academic results except:

3rd class child (younger side of average age in class but not youngest) has a STEN 10 in maths with a note from teacher that it was the highest score in class, STEN 8 in English with notes that Irish and English reading levels are excellent has been placed with younger group. From looking at list, oldest 12 in class plus 2 of more advanced younger children are going with older group.

School class split policy is to take age, drumcondra scores, maturity into account.

I am baffled as generally age is the determining factor with younger classes and more importance given to drumcondra scores/testing in older classes.

my SI child is more chatty and outgoing, at PT meeting teacher commented that he was extremely bright whereas 3rd class child would be quieter but previous teachers would have commented that she is v quiet but v bright. There is a culture of parents prepping children for the weekly tests (in back of book), which we dont (have time or inclination to )do so it may be that her STEN score is a surprise as other children who normally get 100% weekly could not be prepped and she normally gets 90-95% weekly; though would have scored highly in Christmas assessment.

I am not sure why I am so bothered - perhaps because she has now written herself off as 'one of the less clever ones who will repeat 3rd class work next year' with the same teacher (who I dont think gets her.....she was v bland in PT meeting - sure her results speak for themselves - she is a lovely little 'thing')

WWYD?

byhookorbycrook

It's more than about academics, split classes will also take friends into account, children with SEN and th various personalities too. You child won't be repeating the work done, they will work at their own level. I think you are overthinking things. What outcome are you seeking?

Watergirl4

I agree that I am overthinking - my husband thinks that I am too.

Outcome....not sure.....an updating of their policy online to reflect that they are taking friends into account as the policy mentions age, standardised tests and social maturity. I am a logical person so I need to follow through their process (per their policy) - academically both my children rank highly, neither would be mature for their age, but the SI child is much younger so I cannot see why he is the one going up to an older group and my more average aged child is staying with her age group.

I guess I just needed to vent.

I was curious as to what tests the SI children did that gave % and cut off %; I didn't get any thing like this when my oldest was in SI

Big Bag of Chips

The class split issue is largely irrelevant. Both children are moving on to their next class. Senior infant is going in to 1st class, 3rd class child is going in to 4th class. Due to numbers the classes are being split and put into rooms with other classes. Both sides of the split will be following the curriculum for the class they are in (1st and 4th) they will just be in a room with an other classes, who will be following their own curriculum, and some shared material.

No child will be repeating work unless they are being kept back in a class they've already done. (Like you senior infant being kept in senior infants, or your 3rd class being kept in 3rd class).

Our class splits are picked alphabetically! So whether you 'move on' or 'stay back' depends on where your surname falls. They will all do basically the same work.

I didn't know senior infants did standardised tests.. I thought they only started for the older classes.

If you have a problem with the work your child has done or will do, speak to the teacher. Teachers want to work with you to get the best out of your child, and are usually happy to arrange to meet with parents to discuss a child's progress. If your child(ren) are working at a level you are happy with, and are both bright children then they will do fine in whatever class they're in.

But I wouldn't go in asking for a split to be changed. Splitting classes can be a nightmare for schools, and once the split is decided they don't tend to move children for whatever reason. Explain to your child she is not being 'kept back'. She will take her cue from you. If you explain that both classes will be doing the same work just on different rooms then she should be ok with that.

Second day back it probably won't even be an issue anyway!

Watergirl4

I am definitely not expecting the class split to be changed. I spoke to another parent who like myself is a high achiever and both acknowledged that when you had a perfect academic record yourself, it is difficult to read a report/accept a class split that implies that your child is not the little star that you were yourself.

I know from the book lists that those in with the older classes use the more advanced book for the room where subjects are thought to the whole group (my SI to 1st child has second class Irish and Religion books), my 4th class child has a 3rd class Science book whereas those in with 5th have 5th class Irish and Science books. They are taught maths as a separate group (so once a day they come together as 1st or 4th class). I am a little concerned that my older child doesn't register on her teacher's radar as being clever at all - when I was at school, I was given work from older classes to stretch me a little.

I know both will be fine ...its just me really.

Big Bag of Chips

My own school always had 2 classes in the same room. Always junior-senior, 1st-2nd, 3rd-4th, 5th-6th. This is 30 years ago.

So every year the 'shared' subjects the books alternated. So you might have been in 5th class doing the 6th class book, but the following year you were in 6th class doing the 5th class book.

My children's school have occasionally had to split classes, say 1st class - Some going with senior infants some going with 2nd class. It didn't really make any discernable difference when the class were all reunited again the following year. They were still pretty much on the same levels.

The curriculum is set out to cover this. It is accepted that classes will be split/multi classes etc. I completely understand your frustration but really I believe it is a non-issue. Your child as I said will take their lead from you. If you don't make an issue of it, then she won't either. Is she going to be in a class with her friends? If so focus on that reason that she's in a certain group, rather than a academic reason. I'm sure she hasn't read the schools policies on the website!

Watergirl4

I guess being honest that it is me getting too caught up in what 'other people' think. There will be one or two who will want to discuss it that I cannot avoid who will tell me how thrilled they are that 'Mary' is top of the class....

She has a good mix of friends so socially will be fine, though closest friend is in other room.

I am putting on a great show of how it doesn't matter and was done by age/maturity to her and that it is only a few hours a day that they are in another room. She did think that she had done really badly in the Drumcondra maths test as she has been sick and didn't sleep much the night before (we aren't given advance notice of the tests), so I told her that she had done really well in it and she was surprised and seemed to be happy that it wasn't the reason that she was staying with the younger class.

LittleWhiteDog

I'm a teacher & we have split classes in our school. I think the reasoning given on the school's policy could be better. I can totally understand why you are upset & why other parents think their child is in the *elite* class because they are not in the younger split. A STEN of 10 & 9 are exceptional.

In our school when we have to split classes we try to group them so that we don't have a massive array of abilities in the class. Could this be what is happening here? E.g It is easier to manage a group which has a higher ability level & a middle ability level instead of high, middle & low ability all in the one class?

If you are unhappy I would seek clarity from the school as to how the split was determined. Schools don't always see the angst they are causing parents unwittingly. I've seen this myself since my eldest started school. I have seen splits work really well but obviously any parent would be nervous. In terms of your older child's self esteem it may be helpful to give her the sense that she was chosen for the split because she works hard & is able to work independently.

Watergirl4

Thanks Littlewhitedog. I guess if I only had one child in a split class I wouldn't have been so bothered - its the fact that the application of their criteria appears to be inconsistent - if it had been the other way around (younger SI child with younger group and averaged aged 3rd class with older group), it would have made more sense. If they had split based solely on age (as they did when this class were younger), I would have had no issue....by moving up a small number of the younger children, it gives the impression that they took the clever ones out of the younger room - both of these children are very mature for their age.

I think it is my discomfort with the very bland comments at the PT meeting coupled with this experience that is compounding my concern. I am generally not discussing it anywhere near her and my dh is fed up of discussing it. He is more in favour of being a good all rounder and feels it leads to a generally healthier happier life, but this is my 'thing'.

I just need to channel my inner 'Elsa' and let it go....

Thanks all

Big Bag of Chips

Watergirl4 wrote: »

II am a little concerned that my older child doesn't register on her teacher's radar as being clever at all - when I was at school, I was given work from older classes to stretch me a little.

Speak to the teacher about this. Does your child need to be stretched, or is she comfortable at where she is? Teachers notice more than just the Friday test scores.

Watergirl4

My child is probably happy to coast along to be honest...she has more hobbies than I had so not sure she gets the same excitement from completing a page of maths problems as I would have. There have been a lot of subs during the year and that will continue next year, she doesn't consider herself to be one of the clever children. She had her previous teacher for a number of years and she seemed to understand that she was 'quietly confident and kept her abilities to herself'.....she can be quite reserved (like her father).

I am not going to meet the teacher at this point as its not going to change anything - I will mention maturity at the Nov PT meeting to try to understand why they felt she would be more comfortable with the younger crew.

Anyone any insight into the senior infants maths and English tests - I got a cut off % and my child's %.......I hope my 6yo will survive in a group of 7-8 year olds

byhookorbycrook

A cut off in senior infants sounds like the MIST- middle infant screening test. It's divided into listening, 3 phoneme words, sentence dictation and letter sounds. It's not a standardised test, it's for screening and diagnostic purposes. Tests only show how a child did on one particular day so unless a child scores were after dropping by a huge amount or were especially low, there's no need to worry.

I think you are thinking about how things might look to other people, there will always be some way some people will try to put their child ahead of yours, so get the inner Elsa out here too Children are incredibly flexible and I'm actually a big fan of multi-grade rooms. If you think of a single grade room, there will be different levels in them and the days of everyone doing exactly the same thing at the same time are well gone.In multi-grade younger children are hearing the older class at work and if a child is with a younger class, they are getting reinforcement of last year's work and the new things too.
I wonder if the maths test was the Drumcondra Test of Early Numeracy (DTEN) ?

I'd make an appointment with the class teacher/s to discuss your concerns -and allay your fears (hopefully!)