Have some forums become incredibly PC and any dissent is instantly shut down?

JupiterKid

I know people on here give out about the “snowflake generation”, “safe spaces” “virtue signaling” etc. - and IMO posters being offensive, racist, homophobic etc. should be reprimanded or at least challenged but aren’t good web fora all about good debate?

It seems to me that some online forums (not naming names) have become echo chambers of agreement and any poster who even slightly dissents from the rigid agreed narrative are instantly banned and the thread closed and locked. As an academic, I thought critical thought and debate are good for opening the mind, but it seems that many think not.

Thoughts? Is this what internet fora really for?:(

Carlos Orange

JupiterKid wrote: »

It seems to me that some online forums (not naming names) have become echo chambers of agreement ... As an academic, I thought critical thought and debate are good for opening the mind, but it seems that many think not.

Thoughts? Is this what internet fora really for?:(

Should an academic not be more worried about the state of universities than online forums?

Tom Mann Centuria

Without you naming names it's difficult to have any idea which forums you're on about.

JupiterKid

psinno wrote: »

Should an academic not be more worried about the state of universities than online forums?

I most certainly am. I’ve done threads before on the chronic underfunding of universities and ITs, the lack of learning for its own sake, the need for more work experience as part of degree/diploma courses, the pressure to pass students who produce lamentably poor work, rampant grade inflation, the pimping out of departments to attract private sector funding (always with strings attached), the internal politics of institutions and faculties that can be vicious, the unsuitability of many students in third level better suited to vocational courses as a path to employment, the expectations of employers of very low paying, clerical jobs for graduates with honours degrees etc. I couldgo on ad nauseam...


But I can be concerned about both, can I not?

padd b1975

JupiterKid wrote: »

I know people on here give out about the “snowflake generation”, “safe spaces” “virtue signaling” etc. - and IMO posters being offensive, racist, homophobic etc. should be reprimanded or at least challenged but aren’t good web fora all about good debate?

It seems to me that some online forums (not naming names) have become echo chambers of agreement and any poster who even slightly dissents from the rigid agreed narrative are instantly banned and the thread closed and locked. As an academic, I thought critical thought and debate are good for opening the mind, but it seems that many think not.

Thoughts? Is this what internet fora really for?:(

Seriously??

There's hope for us all so.

Carlos Orange

JupiterKid wrote: »

I most certainly am. But I can be concerned about both, can I not?

Always best to worry about patient zero.

sabat

JupiterKid wrote: »

As an academic

And I'm The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

JupiterKid wrote: »

I know people on here give out about the “snowflake generation”, “safe spaces” “virtue signaling” etc. - and IMO posters being offensive, racist, homophobic etc. should be reprimanded or at least challenged but aren’t good web fora all about good debate?

It seems to me that some online forums (not naming names) have become echo chambers of agreement and any poster who even slightly dissents from the rigid agreed narrative are instantly banned and the thread closed and locked. As an academic, I thought critical thought and debate are good for opening the mind, but it seems that many think not.

Thoughts? Is this what internet fora really for?:(

Depends on the forum. If you preach, say homosexuality on a conservative religious forum, or national socialism on a liberal activist forum, then yes, you will be shut down - but these fora are not set of for debate, they're set up for information sharing and like-minded people to exchange ideas rather than opinions.

The problem sometimes is that the standard of debate falls short of acceptable and posters come across as getting phobic or racist when they aren't - they just can't communicate their point, or have researched poorly.

Yer Da sells Avon

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The problem sometimes is that the standard of debate falls short of acceptable and posters come across as getting phobic or racist when they aren't - they just can't communicate their point, or have researched poorly.

The posters who come across as overtly racist are the ones who either don't care about getting banned or simply aren't smart enough to cloak their racism in the vapid language of 'legitimate concerns'.

cantdecide

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

The posters who come across as overtly racist are the ones who either don't care about getting banned or simply aren't smart enough to cloak their racism in the vapid language of 'legitimate concerns'.

I propose they should just keep their mouths shut and vote Trump.

JupiterKid

sabat wrote: »

And I'm The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem...

Erm... you know practically nothing about me.:rolleyes: I lecture and research and hold 15 peer reviewed publications. But I suppose anyone on AH is fair game for abuse and being disbelieved. It’s the nature of the beast.


Actually, I’m a acne riddled 24 stone unemployed waster residing in the filthy basement of my mam’s (who is a chronic hoarder) house. Happy now?

Blud

JupiterKid wrote: »

Erm... you know practically nothing about me.:rolleyes: I lecture and research and hold 15 peer reviewed publications. But I suppose anyone on AH is fair game for abuse and being disbelieved. It’s the nature of the beast.


Actually, I’m a acne riddled 24 stone unemployed waster residing in the filthy basement of my mam’s (who is a chronic hoarder) house. Happy now?

And how did your mam vote in the referendum?

Raging_Ninja

When you mean forums, do you mean forums like boards, or actual public forums where debates occur face to face?

JupiterKid

Blud wrote: »

And how did your mam vote in the referendum?

She voted yes ... to abort me.:(

Eggs For Dinner

Try saying anything negative about the legal profession in the Legal Discussion forum and see how far you get

Assetbacked

The Irish Simpsons Fans Facebook forum is the most ironic echo chamber I’ve seen. It is ironic in that it claims to be a Simpsons Fans forum yet the amount of people that engage in mass bullying at the slightest meme they don’t agree with make it completely worthless to use anymore.

Peregrinus

JupiterKid wrote: »

. . . . It seems to me that some online forums (not naming names) have become echo chambers of agreement and any poster who even slightly dissents from the rigid agreed narrative are instantly banned and the thread closed and locked.

What Tom Mann Centuria said; we need a better handle on what you're talking about. One person's "slight dissent from the rigid agreed narrative" is another person's "troll-like attempt to derail discussion". There's obviously a line between shutting down critical thought and debate, on the one hand, and preventing threadsh1tting, on the other. But have we any reason to think that where you would draw that line has any greater validity than where someone else would draw it? Before we can agree or disagree with you we need to know where you would draw it. And it's hard for you to convey that to us without offering some concrete examples.

pleas advice

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Try saying anything negative about the legal profession in the Legal Discussion forum and see how far you get

...or dentists in the dental forum.

Wanderer78

Try challenge the libertarian and authoritarian element of boards!

JupiterKid

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Try saying anything negative about the legal profession in the Legal Discussion forum and see how far you get

The same goes for the Accommodation and Property forum. Populated by landlords perenially complaining about tenants and tenants having far too many rights and how they are being screwed by regulations and tax etc without some of them taking a good hard look in the mirror.

I strongly suspect many there are Celtic Tiger BTL landlords who are very bitter at getting burned post rexession saddled with places they wanted to "flip" and "accidental" LLs who don't know how to rent a place out professionally.

Some forums are definitely echo chamber circle jerk affairs.

Wanderer78

JupiterKid wrote:

The same goes for the Acconmodatiin and Property forum. Populated by landlords perenially complaining about tenants and tenants having far too many rights and how they are being screwed by regulations and tax etc without some of them kaking a good gard look in the mirror.

To be fair, some landlords are getting seriously screwed, we have housing policies in place where virtually, everyone gets screwed, banks are laughing though, effectively win win for them no matter what

kuntboy

Don't worry, by the time those who cannot be named sufficiently populate and take over the country, the internet of things, quantum computing, all-pervasive surveillance by AI algorithms, social credit system, micro-killer-drones etc should all be in full swing. Then we will enter a permanent nightmare dystopia and all your little concerns will be irrelevant and forgotten.

TheValeyard

kuntboy wrote: »

Don't worry, by the time those who cannot be named sufficiently populate and take over the country, the internet of things, quantum computing, all-pervasive surveillance by AI algorithms, social credit system, micro-killer-drones etc should all be in full swing. Then we will enter a permanent nightmare dystopia and all your little concerns will be irrelevant and forgotten.

Oh phew, that's a relief!

mariaalice

You are correct in some ways, but the issue is often that the poster is a contrarian crank with no evidence to back up their opinion.

The fact that its an internet discussion site and not a traditional debate means that you can get someone with a visceral hater of some group, their opinion is based on antidotes and stereotypes debating with someone who uses logic and evidence.

Then there are those who exported all there own neuroticism on to various groups SF, PBP, women, welfare recipients, immigrants, the Iona Institute they invest these group with far more power and influence than they ever have in real life.


The education level of the poster, some are going to have an academic education in the humanities some are going to have left school at 15 and never read a paper.


For me, I would be far more likely to listen to a dissenting opinion if it is evidence based.

whisky_galore

Assetbacked wrote: »

The Irish Simpsons Fans Facebook forum is the most ironic echo chamber I’ve seen. It is ironic in that it claims to be a Simpsons Fans forum yet the amount of people that engage in mass bullying at the slightest meme they don’t agree with make it completely worthless to use anymore.

Something that annoys in some FB groups are the people that fly in like seagulls; dump a load of sh!t...video(s) or a load of pics that have little to do with the group subject and then fly out again.

Sometimes prefaced with 'I know this isn't about *group subject* but thought I'd share.':rolleyes:

Or those people posting fuzzy pics or shaky videos they took themselves thinking they've done a service to mankind.

Grayson

JupiterKid wrote: »

I know people on here give out about the “snowflake generation”, “safe spaces” “virtue signaling” etc. - and IMO posters being offensive, racist, homophobic etc. should be reprimanded or at least challenged but aren’t good web fora all about good debate?

It seems to me that some online forums (not naming names) have become echo chambers of agreement and any poster who even slightly dissents from the rigid agreed narrative are instantly banned and the thread closed and locked. As an academic, I thought critical thought and debate are good for opening the mind, but it seems that many think not.

Thoughts? Is this what internet fora really for?:(

You're talking about the "marketplace of ideas"? The idea that we should allow people to . discuss whatever and the best argument wins. Unfortunately that doesn't really work and it especially doesn't work online. Online it's easy to dodge a question and create a strawman. The original Trump thread for example was swarmed with people saying but what about Hilary. Even after he was elected and did something stupid it was the same reply. It also gets increasingly hard to discuss certain stuff like Islam. There are some posters in those threads, that although I disagree with them, they argue well. There are others that post hour long conspiracy video's and post made up crap from infowars. The result is a messy and confusing thread where you have both an actual discussion and people spamming. Those people live so far down the rabbit hole that nothing you say will convince them to shift their position in the slightest.

Which brings me back to the market place. Although it should be possible to debate and the best idea or the truth wins, it's not always possible. It also begs the question, should we even allow some of these arguments in the first place. If someone is constantly posting lies, do they deserve a place in the market place. And are some opinions so crazy and so nasty that they shouldn't be allowed to be considered?

Your Face

'As an academic' = I borrow The Economist off people with jobs and ostensibly read it in public places.

Sonics2k

It's got nothing to do with PC really, but dissent is often shut down on most forums.

Every public board has it's own bias, usually based on the crowd who post there.

If you go on to Reddit and post in praise of someone like Trump, odds are you'll be shot down. If you then go to Voat and post in praise of Clinton, you'll be shot down there too.

megaten

Yeah it's because forums becoming more PC. That's why there's a constant flood of threads about travellers, being afraid of muslims and random American social issues ****e.

Billy86

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

The posters who come across as overtly racist are the ones who either don't care about getting banned or simply aren't smart enough to cloak their racism in the vapid language of 'legitimate concerns'.

Or who set up a new account every three months to wash off the stench of the old one.

Fourier

Your Face wrote: »

'As an academic' = I borrow The Economist off people with jobs and ostensibly read it in public places.

Yeah, it's literally impossible that somebody might work in a university as academic staff, there's only more than 8,000 of them in the country, far too few for one to have registered on boards.