Have some forums become incredibly PC and any dissent is instantly shut down?

JupiterKid

I know people on here give out about the “snowflake generation”, “safe spaces” “virtue signaling” etc. - and IMO posters being offensive, racist, homophobic etc. should be reprimanded or at least challenged but aren’t good web fora all about good debate?

It seems to me that some online forums (not naming names) have become echo chambers of agreement and any poster who even slightly dissents from the rigid agreed narrative are instantly banned and the thread closed and locked. As an academic, I thought critical thought and debate are good for opening the mind, but it seems that many think not.

Thoughts? Is this what internet fora really for?:(

Carlos Orange

JupiterKid wrote: »

It seems to me that some online forums (not naming names) have become echo chambers of agreement ... As an academic, I thought critical thought and debate are good for opening the mind, but it seems that many think not.

Thoughts? Is this what internet fora really for?:(

Should an academic not be more worried about the state of universities than online forums?

Tom Mann Centuria

Without you naming names it's difficult to have any idea which forums you're on about.

JupiterKid

psinno wrote: »

Should an academic not be more worried about the state of universities than online forums?

I most certainly am. I’ve done threads before on the chronic underfunding of universities and ITs, the lack of learning for its own sake, the need for more work experience as part of degree/diploma courses, the pressure to pass students who produce lamentably poor work, rampant grade inflation, the pimping out of departments to attract private sector funding (always with strings attached), the internal politics of institutions and faculties that can be vicious, the unsuitability of many students in third level better suited to vocational courses as a path to employment, the expectations of employers of very low paying, clerical jobs for graduates with honours degrees etc. I couldgo on ad nauseam...


But I can be concerned about both, can I not?

padd b1975

JupiterKid wrote: »

I know people on here give out about the “snowflake generation”, “safe spaces” “virtue signaling” etc. - and IMO posters being offensive, racist, homophobic etc. should be reprimanded or at least challenged but aren’t good web fora all about good debate?

It seems to me that some online forums (not naming names) have become echo chambers of agreement and any poster who even slightly dissents from the rigid agreed narrative are instantly banned and the thread closed and locked. As an academic, I thought critical thought and debate are good for opening the mind, but it seems that many think not.

Thoughts? Is this what internet fora really for?:(

Seriously??

There's hope for us all so.

Carlos Orange

JupiterKid wrote: »

I most certainly am. But I can be concerned about both, can I not?

Always best to worry about patient zero.

sabat

JupiterKid wrote: »

As an academic

And I'm The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

JupiterKid wrote: »

I know people on here give out about the “snowflake generation”, “safe spaces” “virtue signaling” etc. - and IMO posters being offensive, racist, homophobic etc. should be reprimanded or at least challenged but aren’t good web fora all about good debate?

It seems to me that some online forums (not naming names) have become echo chambers of agreement and any poster who even slightly dissents from the rigid agreed narrative are instantly banned and the thread closed and locked. As an academic, I thought critical thought and debate are good for opening the mind, but it seems that many think not.

Thoughts? Is this what internet fora really for?:(

Depends on the forum. If you preach, say homosexuality on a conservative religious forum, or national socialism on a liberal activist forum, then yes, you will be shut down - but these fora are not set of for debate, they're set up for information sharing and like-minded people to exchange ideas rather than opinions.

The problem sometimes is that the standard of debate falls short of acceptable and posters come across as getting phobic or racist when they aren't - they just can't communicate their point, or have researched poorly.

Yer Da sells Avon

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The problem sometimes is that the standard of debate falls short of acceptable and posters come across as getting phobic or racist when they aren't - they just can't communicate their point, or have researched poorly.

The posters who come across as overtly racist are the ones who either don't care about getting banned or simply aren't smart enough to cloak their racism in the vapid language of 'legitimate concerns'.

cantdecide

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

The posters who come across as overtly racist are the ones who either don't care about getting banned or simply aren't smart enough to cloak their racism in the vapid language of 'legitimate concerns'.

I propose they should just keep their mouths shut and vote Trump.

JupiterKid

sabat wrote: »

And I'm The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem...

Erm... you know practically nothing about me.:rolleyes: I lecture and research and hold 15 peer reviewed publications. But I suppose anyone on AH is fair game for abuse and being disbelieved. It’s the nature of the beast.


Actually, I’m a acne riddled 24 stone unemployed waster residing in the filthy basement of my mam’s (who is a chronic hoarder) house. Happy now?

Blud

JupiterKid wrote: »

Erm... you know practically nothing about me.:rolleyes: I lecture and research and hold 15 peer reviewed publications. But I suppose anyone on AH is fair game for abuse and being disbelieved. It’s the nature of the beast.


Actually, I’m a acne riddled 24 stone unemployed waster residing in the filthy basement of my mam’s (who is a chronic hoarder) house. Happy now?

And how did your mam vote in the referendum?

Raging_Ninja

When you mean forums, do you mean forums like boards, or actual public forums where debates occur face to face?

JupiterKid

Blud wrote: »

And how did your mam vote in the referendum?

She voted yes ... to abort me.:(

Eggs For Dinner

Try saying anything negative about the legal profession in the Legal Discussion forum and see how far you get

Assetbacked

The Irish Simpsons Fans Facebook forum is the most ironic echo chamber I’ve seen. It is ironic in that it claims to be a Simpsons Fans forum yet the amount of people that engage in mass bullying at the slightest meme they don’t agree with make it completely worthless to use anymore.

Peregrinus

JupiterKid wrote: »

. . . . It seems to me that some online forums (not naming names) have become echo chambers of agreement and any poster who even slightly dissents from the rigid agreed narrative are instantly banned and the thread closed and locked.

What Tom Mann Centuria said; we need a better handle on what you're talking about. One person's "slight dissent from the rigid agreed narrative" is another person's "troll-like attempt to derail discussion". There's obviously a line between shutting down critical thought and debate, on the one hand, and preventing threadsh1tting, on the other. But have we any reason to think that where you would draw that line has any greater validity than where someone else would draw it? Before we can agree or disagree with you we need to know where you would draw it. And it's hard for you to convey that to us without offering some concrete examples.

pleas advice

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Try saying anything negative about the legal profession in the Legal Discussion forum and see how far you get

...or dentists in the dental forum.

Wanderer78

Try challenge the libertarian and authoritarian element of boards!

JupiterKid

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

Try saying anything negative about the legal profession in the Legal Discussion forum and see how far you get

The same goes for the Accommodation and Property forum. Populated by landlords perenially complaining about tenants and tenants having far too many rights and how they are being screwed by regulations and tax etc without some of them taking a good hard look in the mirror.

I strongly suspect many there are Celtic Tiger BTL landlords who are very bitter at getting burned post rexession saddled with places they wanted to "flip" and "accidental" LLs who don't know how to rent a place out professionally.

Some forums are definitely echo chamber circle jerk affairs.

Wanderer78

JupiterKid wrote:

The same goes for the Acconmodatiin and Property forum. Populated by landlords perenially complaining about tenants and tenants having far too many rights and how they are being screwed by regulations and tax etc without some of them kaking a good gard look in the mirror.

To be fair, some landlords are getting seriously screwed, we have housing policies in place where virtually, everyone gets screwed, banks are laughing though, effectively win win for them no matter what

kuntboy

Don't worry, by the time those who cannot be named sufficiently populate and take over the country, the internet of things, quantum computing, all-pervasive surveillance by AI algorithms, social credit system, micro-killer-drones etc should all be in full swing. Then we will enter a permanent nightmare dystopia and all your little concerns will be irrelevant and forgotten.

TheValeyard

kuntboy wrote: »

Don't worry, by the time those who cannot be named sufficiently populate and take over the country, the internet of things, quantum computing, all-pervasive surveillance by AI algorithms, social credit system, micro-killer-drones etc should all be in full swing. Then we will enter a permanent nightmare dystopia and all your little concerns will be irrelevant and forgotten.

Oh phew, that's a relief!

You are correct in some ways, but the issue is often that the poster is a contrarian crank with no evidence to back up their opinion.

The fact that its an internet discussion site and not a traditional debate means that you can get someone with a visceral hater of some group, their opinion is based on antidotes and stereotypes debating with someone who uses logic and evidence.

Then there are those who exported all there own neuroticism on to various groups SF, PBP, women, welfare recipients, immigrants, the Iona Institute they invest these group with far more power and influence than they ever have in real life.


The education level of the poster, some are going to have an academic education in the humanities some are going to have left school at 15 and never read a paper.


For me, I would be far more likely to listen to a dissenting opinion if it is evidence based.

whisky_galore

Assetbacked wrote: »

The Irish Simpsons Fans Facebook forum is the most ironic echo chamber I’ve seen. It is ironic in that it claims to be a Simpsons Fans forum yet the amount of people that engage in mass bullying at the slightest meme they don’t agree with make it completely worthless to use anymore.

Something that annoys in some FB groups are the people that fly in like seagulls; dump a load of sh!t...video(s) or a load of pics that have little to do with the group subject and then fly out again.

Sometimes prefaced with 'I know this isn't about *group subject* but thought I'd share.':rolleyes:

Or those people posting fuzzy pics or shaky videos they took themselves thinking they've done a service to mankind.

Grayson

JupiterKid wrote: »

I know people on here give out about the “snowflake generation”, “safe spaces” “virtue signaling” etc. - and IMO posters being offensive, racist, homophobic etc. should be reprimanded or at least challenged but aren’t good web fora all about good debate?

It seems to me that some online forums (not naming names) have become echo chambers of agreement and any poster who even slightly dissents from the rigid agreed narrative are instantly banned and the thread closed and locked. As an academic, I thought critical thought and debate are good for opening the mind, but it seems that many think not.

Thoughts? Is this what internet fora really for?:(

You're talking about the "marketplace of ideas"? The idea that we should allow people to . discuss whatever and the best argument wins. Unfortunately that doesn't really work and it especially doesn't work online. Online it's easy to dodge a question and create a strawman. The original Trump thread for example was swarmed with people saying but what about Hilary. Even after he was elected and did something stupid it was the same reply. It also gets increasingly hard to discuss certain stuff like Islam. There are some posters in those threads, that although I disagree with them, they argue well. There are others that post hour long conspiracy video's and post made up crap from infowars. The result is a messy and confusing thread where you have both an actual discussion and people spamming. Those people live so far down the rabbit hole that nothing you say will convince them to shift their position in the slightest.

Which brings me back to the market place. Although it should be possible to debate and the best idea or the truth wins, it's not always possible. It also begs the question, should we even allow some of these arguments in the first place. If someone is constantly posting lies, do they deserve a place in the market place. And are some opinions so crazy and so nasty that they shouldn't be allowed to be considered?

Your Face

'As an academic' = I borrow The Economist off people with jobs and ostensibly read it in public places.

Sonics2k

It's got nothing to do with PC really, but dissent is often shut down on most forums.

Every public board has it's own bias, usually based on the crowd who post there.

If you go on to Reddit and post in praise of someone like Trump, odds are you'll be shot down. If you then go to Voat and post in praise of Clinton, you'll be shot down there too.

megaten

Yeah it's because forums becoming more PC. That's why there's a constant flood of threads about travellers, being afraid of muslims and random American social issues ****e.

Billy86

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

The posters who come across as overtly racist are the ones who either don't care about getting banned or simply aren't smart enough to cloak their racism in the vapid language of 'legitimate concerns'.

Or who set up a new account every three months to wash off the stench of the old one.

Fourier

Your Face wrote: »

'As an academic' = I borrow The Economist off people with jobs and ostensibly read it in public places.

Yeah, it's literally impossible that somebody might work in a university as academic staff, there's only more than 8,000 of them in the country, far too few for one to have registered on boards.

5rtytry56

Just don't take the name of the repair agent in vain about the quality of or delay in repairing your gadget in Consumer Issues.

You can do this in Talk to..... it also helps your post history needs to be pretty clean and you haven't been in boards is prison.

Baggly

Well i like macs good enough, but Windows 10 has definitely improved things in my view.

riffmongous

Fourier wrote: »

Yeah, it's literally impossible that somebody might work in a university as academic staff, there's only more than 8,000 of them in the country, far too few for one to have registered on boards.

Only joking obviously :P

Assetbacked wrote: »

The Irish Simpsons Fans Facebook forum is the most ironic echo chamber I’ve seen. It is ironic in that it claims to be a Simpsons Fans forum yet the amount of people that engage in mass bullying at the slightest meme they don’t agree with make it completely worthless to use anymore.

I agree it's become a total echo chamber, but not sure they describe themselves as a forum, it was originally mostly just Gerry Adams and IRA memes, maybe some people got the wrong impression that it was an open forum for Irish people

Grayson

Fourier wrote: »

Yeah, it's literally impossible that somebody might work in a university as academic staff, there's only more than 8,000 of them in the country, far too few for one to have registered on boards.

You would say that Mr. Fourier. Typical liberal lefty frenchy :P

Mr. CooL ICE

Mod: Thread closed due to dissent

Cee-Jay-Cee

Is being an academic a proper job?

Baggly

Dole Scrounging Vegan Crossfitter wrote: »

Mod: Thread closed due to dissent

Lol i get jokes

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Billgirlylegs

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Do you find "academic" women are not attractive.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Omackeral

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I used to do that with FHM, Nuts and Zoo back in the day but it wouldn't be my chin I'd be stroking.

Your Face

Fourier wrote: »

Yeah, it's literally impossible that somebody might work in a university as academic staff, there's only more than 8,000 of them in the country, far too few for one to have registered on boards.

You quoted my post but didn't make an applicable reply.
Obviously not one of the 8000 you mentioned.

JupiterKid

I think a lot of people out there think that being an academic is not a "proper" job, that we are all essentually (im)mature students living in our collegiate ivory towers, divorced from the real world.:rolleyes: Well, we probably are in a way but someone has to do the educating...

Believe it or not, some of us do actually work pretty hard to earn a living. Doing several lectures a day, marking assignments, supervising dissertations, doing research and trying to get it published, dealing with overcrowded classes, budget limitations, egotistical departmental heads who devolve everything to more junior staff and then take the credit and the great fun of marking 300 to 400 exam scripts in the space of a week, many of which are barely legible and some that could have been better written by an 11 year old is a bit of a drag.

But I digress - internet message boards are not often great vehicles of proper debate. A few very thoughtful and articulate posters willing to hear the opposing argument and use a bit of evidence to argue their points but all too many who just want to rant about whoever they despise (welfare scroungers, single mothers, immigrants, feminists, etc etc to deflect from their own major insecurities and inadequacies). All based on anecdotes and zero evidence. Overzealous mods or webmasters who treat the fora as their own little fiefdoms where they can wield their imagined "power."

And those are the mainstream web forums. :eek: Go to quite a few out there and its just a total wankfest of bitterness, mud slinging and generally very unbalanced and unhinged people who just want to see the world burn.

Best avoided if you want to retain your mental health.

Pac1Man

JupiterKid wrote: »

doing research and trying to get it published,

Just hit File and Print or CTRL+P if you feel time is not on your side.

Subcomandante Marcos

JupiterKid wrote: »

Erm... you know practically nothing about me.:rolleyes: I lecture and research and hold 15 peer reviewed publications.

So you're a bang average 4th year PhD candidate?

padd b1975

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

So you're a bang average 4th year PhD candidate?

You'll notice he didn't say what those reviews actually amounted to...

*Strokes chin*

Subcomandante Marcos

padd b1975 wrote: »

You'll notice he didn't say what those reviews actually amounted to...

*Strokes chin*

I wonder what his/her research impact is like. 15 publications, how many are in reputable journals? How many are in predatory journals? How many are conference presentations? What field?

padd b1975

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I wonder what his/her research impact is like. 15 publications, how many are in reputable journals? How many are in predatory journals? How many are conference presentations? What field?

In fairness it's possible he is some sort of academic.
He certainly ticks the box for zero sense of humour.

5rtytry56

Another observation of mine is within the last 2 months, the increasingly narky fashion which Thread Starters reply to dissent within their own threads. Stupid and narky.