Certificate of Completion: Opt in or Opt Out

dellas1979

Hello all,

Commencement notice about to be submitted to council. And this "opting in or out" of a certification of completion has come up.

Ive contacted the bank and it is optional for me (so I can choose to opt in or out).

The thing is, Ive tried to get my head around what it is (ive read pages and pages and still dont understand).

In layman's terms, can anyone explain to me why opt in or opt out?

Thanks

Edit: Am using an architect. Also, a building company willl build to a builders finish. Inside will be done direct labour.

DOCARCH

Have you seen/read this: http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Legislation/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,42563,en.pdf

dellas1979

Cant open link (says URL not found).

Could you repost again? Hopefully might be able to understand this.

DOCARCH

Link working for me?

Google: Information Note
for Owners of new dwellings and extensions
who opt out of Statutory Certification
for building control purposes

dellas1979

Thank you. Did the google.

Says "Prior to deciding on whether or not to avail of the opt out
option, it is recommended that a homeowner should consult with their solicitor."

I still dont really understand why you'd want to opt in (extra money), if there is an option to opt out.

Will give solicitor a tinkle.

Thank you!

BryanF

dellas1979 wrote: »

Thank you. Did the google.

Says "Prior to deciding on whether or not to avail of the opt out
option, it is recommended that a homeowner should consult with their solicitor."

I still dont really understand why you'd want to opt in (extra money), if there is an option to opt out.

Will give solicitor a tinkle.

Thank you!

What did your architect have to say? In my experience a solicitor won’t have a clue about BCAR

DOCARCH

dellas1979 wrote: »

I still dont really understand why you'd want to opt in (extra money), if there is an option to opt out.

Basically, with opt in, you (theoretically) have more oversight, during construction (by the assigned certifier) and have a more weighty paper trail on completion....some people find that comforting.

I have some clients, who, when given the options/costs, choose to opt in.

Metric Tensor

Having more or less of a paper trail MAY also have an effect on future value.

Very few solicitors are in any way up to date on this yet and I'd expect it to be a few years before it works its way into standard conveyancing processes. Also there's no legal precedents set for BCARs yet so everyone is feeling their way in the dark to a certain extent.

dellas1979

BryanF wrote: »

What did your architect have to say? In my experience a solicitor won’t have a clue about BCAR

Spoke to him about this this evening.

He more or less raised the points that DOCARCH and Metric Tensor made.

A paper trail that may or may not affect the value of the house if I ever went to sell.

But as said, he has no idea how it will all work out, as its pretty new.

Solicitor hasnt come back to me yet.

I mean....is it a very strange regulation?

When they changed it, I wonder what their aim was?

Foundations, frame, insulation...the stages of the build will be certified regardless.

Thats what confused the life out of me (I was thinking that if I didnt opt in, nothing would be certified). Am leaning towards opting out. I dont have 2k for a paper trail on a house I may or may not sell.

DOCARCH

dellas1979 wrote: »

When they changed it, I wonder what their aim was?

To absolve the government/county councils of any responsibility, whatsoever, with anything to do with construction/building regulation compliance!

dellas1979 wrote: »

Foundations, frame, insulation...the stages of the build will be certified regardless.

Not really!

BryanF

DOCARCH wrote: »

To absolve the government/county councils of any responsibility, whatsoever, with anything to do with construction/building regulation compliance!



Not really!

Here’s another beauty! All our governments doing IMO https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/state-agency-to-meet-schools-over-carillion-collapse-1.3484737%3fmode=amp

dellas1979

DOCARCH wrote: »

To absolve the government/county councils of any responsibility, whatsoever, with anything to do with construction/building regulation compliance!

:eek:

DOCARCH wrote: »

Not really!

When building, do things not get signed off as being....done/quality is good?

For example, when your foundation goes in, and an engineer comes out to "certify" it?

Metric Tensor

dellas1979 wrote: »

For example, when your foundation goes in, and an engineer comes out to "certify" it?

If you employ one and pay him to do so!


You'd be amazed at how many foundations go under houses in this country without an engineer ever being involved.


The standard line being:


"Sure I've been putting in foundations for 20/30/40 years and no house has fallen over yet ... " followed by a loud guffaw and some expletives regarding engineers, overdesigning and "cost a fortune".

dellas1979

I know in my case, the foundations will be certified by an engineer.

Not sure what else will need to get certified.

I'm just not sure if am paying an engineer to certify certain things, does opting in sort of "double" what am doing.

Metric Tensor

The answer to that question is "kindof"

If you are opting out then the "certificate" that you will get from any of the professionals will be of a qualified type written by the various professional bodies to protect their own members.

If you opt in the Assigned Certifier and Builder have to sign a statutory certificate that is written one way and cannot be altered. All the "ancillary certifiers" also sign a set of agreed (but not statutory) certificates that may or may not be more beneficial to the customer than the "certificates" that will come when opting out.

Sorry if the above sounds vague - but without getting into excruciating detail here it's hard to get into the specifics of the paperwork that you will or will not get.

To try to sum up:

Opt-out: The various professionals will price to provide the minimum paperwork they need to supply to satisfy mortgage drawdown plus any specific items you have asked them for. Their prices will include what they deem to be the minimum number of site visits* necessary to make them happy to sign these forms**.

Opt-in: The various professionals will price to provide all the paperwork they are expected to provide under the "BC(A)R" system including the minimum number of site visits* necessary to make them happy to sign these forms**.


* The question of whether the same or more site visits are required for Opt-In is up to the professional themselves and a matter for much debate with most agreeing more site visits and hence more charges to client are required for Opt-In.

** The second question is if the BC(A)R forms place more risk on the professionals than the "old style" forms. This is unanswerable until tested in court but most professionals price as if it does expose them to more risk.