Inaugural Shot Clock Masters

slave1

I know there's a European Tour thread but just thought this innovative competition deserves it's own thread rather than be buried....

The official European Tour shot time allowances will be in force: a 50 second allowance for a “first to play approach shot (including a par three tee shot), chip or putt” and a 40-second allowance for a “tee shot on a par four or par five, or second or third to play approach shot, chip or putt”.

Every player will be timed on every shot, and on each occasion that a player fails to hit his shot within the time limits, a one-shot penalty will be added to his score for that hole. However, each player can call for a “time-extension” up to twice in any one round, allowing a further 40 seconds over and above the above allowances to play the shot in question

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/season=2018/tournamentid=2018048/news/newsid=349419.html

spacecoyote

Could be very interesting to see how this works in practice?

What happens if there is a call for a rules official? Does the clock only kick in from the time the player reaches their ball/is able to address it?

WHIP IT!

When does the clock start? Is it when the player reaches his ball? Once players got used to this, there will be no drop off in scoring - and it will actually help some players!

liamoreilly

...Is this being classed as an official event with R2D and Ryder cup points being offered?...It's a great idea, although not too sure if it should be counted, as it is really changing the dynamic of the game for certain players... It shouldn't make a difference because it's more than enough time to get a shot away, but in pro terms it's not...

RoadRunner

Measuring everyone accurately all of the time does not seem workable to me. But lets wait and see.

slave1

liamoreilly wrote: »

...Is this being classed as an official event with R2D and Ryder cup points being offered?...It's a great idea, although not too sure if it should be counted, as it is really changing the dynamic of the game for certain players... It shouldn't make a difference because it's more than enough time to get a shot away, but in pro terms it's not...

Their explanation video says it's a R2D 72hole tournament.

There's actually nothing new here regarding the time allowance, these are the standard European Tour time allowances, it's just they will be enforced for every player for every shot.

Each pairing will have a referee who will determine when to start the countdown...

GreeBo

I agree with the idea but not sure it will take off.

I think allowing them to use DMDs would speed them up a lot, save them pacing things out and calculating distances.
They have them down to the yard anyway, what different would a DMD actually make, is the game supposed to be testing the skill of caddies?

Joe Dog

GreeBo wrote: »

I agree with the idea but not sure it will take off.

I think allowing them to use DMDs would speed them up a lot, save them pacing things out and calculating distances.
They have them down to the yard anyway, what different would a DMD actually make, is the game supposed to be testing the skill of caddies?

Wouldn't using a DMD not take a lot of the skill out of the game.

Seve OB

Joe Dog wrote: »

Wouldn't using a DMD not take a lot of the skill out of the game.

what skill will it take out?
they all know the yardage anyway, just they have to look up their course guides and pace it out.

bring them in I say.

and I think..... it will only be a matter of time

charlieIRL

I agree 100% on the DMD's and think it will speed up the game and if kids see pros playing quicker then it might speed them up too.

Rikand

charlieIRL wrote: »

I agree 100% on the DMD's and think it will speed up the game and if kids see pros playing quicker then it might speed them up too.

Not just kids.

Lot of lads in their 30's and 40's who need a right boot up the hole

slave1

My last three rounds have been well under 3hours on what is a reasonable long course (5.4miles on my GPS), mind you I tee off at 7AM solo to achieve this...

Rikand

Jiminez loves it of course

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/season=2018/tournamentid=2018048/news/newsid=349485.html

charlieIRL

slave1 wrote: »

My last three rounds have been well under 3hours on what is a reasonable long course (5.4miles on my GPS), mind you I tee off at 7AM solo to achieve this...

3 ball on Sunday took 3.5 hours off back sticks in Tullamore.

Hopefully we’ll see how the pace is on Thursday and if it’s a success this week I wonder will it be used more on the EuropeanTour? Not a chance of the yanks accepting it.

WHIP IT!

slave1 wrote: »

My last three rounds have been well under 3hours on what is a reasonable long course (5.4miles on my GPS), mind you I tee off at 7AM solo to achieve this...

Takes ya three hours to play on your own?? Speed up, Slave, ye slow git! :pac:

WHIP IT!

GreeBo wrote: »

I agree with the idea but not sure it will take off.

I think allowing them to use DMDs would speed them up a lot, save them pacing things out and calculating distances.
They have them down to the yard anyway, what different would a DMD actually make, is the game supposed to be testing the skill of caddies?

Seve OB wrote: »

what skill will it take out?
they all know the yardage anyway, just they have to look up their course guides and pace it out.

bring them in I say.

and I think..... it will only be a matter of time

Completely agree. To be honest, I think caddies are too much involved as it is. The DMDs just give them the same info quicker. I also don't really think caddies should be allowed read putts or line up their player - it's endemic on the LPGA Tour and some of those ladies are sssslllooowwwww...

Russman

charlieIRL wrote: »

Hopefully we’ll see how the pace is on Thursday and if it’s a success this week I wonder will it be used more on the EuropeanTour? Not a chance of the yanks accepting it.

It’ll be really interesting to see how it works out. Hopefully it’s a success (although how do you measure that ?) and they might try it in a few more events rather than have this event turn into a “novelty” tournament to be avoided by all the top players.

I know it’s the week before a major, but there really is a surprising lack of good players playing this week (I know they’re all fantastic players, but you know what I mean !), which makes me fear that there really isn’t any appetite for tackling slow play.

I wonder could Keith Pelley maybe talk the other powers that be into trying this format out in a WGC event, even once-off, just for the craic ??!! The PGA tour boss would probably have a cardiac arrest at the thought of it !! Some of those yank players mightn’t break 90 with all the penalty shots !!

Russman

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Completely agree. To be honest, I think caddies are too much involved as it is. The DMDs just give them the same info quicker. I also don't really think caddies should be allowed read putts or line up their player - it's endemic on the LPGA Tour and some of those ladies are sssslllooowwwww...

Maybe they should try an event with no yardage books or distance markers, purely Mark 1 Eyeball only. In all seriousness I’d love to see how they’d do.

callaway92

So far it’s fine - it’s timed from when they stand up to the ball pretty much but the timings do seem kind of random to be honest.

I’d assume it’s putting we’ll see the biggest difference in this week - expecting stats to be far worse than usual.

slave1

First groups are in, on average 40minutes earlier so far

GreeBo

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Completely agree. To be honest, I think caddies are too much involved as it is. The DMDs just give them the same info quicker. I also don't really think caddies should be allowed read putts or line up their player - it's endemic on the LPGA Tour and some of those ladies are sssslllooowwwww...

I think from next year caddies wont be allowed line up golfer on LPGA tour... heard something about it during the US Open.

Russman wrote: »

It’ll be really interesting to see how it works out. Hopefully it’s a success (although how do you measure that ?)

I guess if overall round times are faster then it worked.
Will be interesting to see it on the back 9 on Sunday though!

Ronney

Russman wrote: »

Maybe they should try an event with no yardage books or distance markers, purely Mark 1 Eyeball only. In all seriousness I’d love to see how they’d do.

No Distance markers could see a lad sending a caddie 200yds up the fairway to pace it out!

Cant see why they dont allow Distance measuring devices.

The Green is the worst place in my opinion for it. Watched an event recently where a 3 ball each had 15ft approx putts. They took it in turns to each line up, walk around look from other side and check side on before calling in the caddie to check the line on the ball matched what they agreed. Surely this can be done simultaneously to some extent

Roger_007

Anything that curtails those long discussions between caddies and players would be worth trying. It's much worse on the PGA tour than the European tour.
There is a rule in the Rules of Golf, (6.7), regarding penalties for undue delay between holes. The rule further states that the 'committee' of a competition may specify penalties for slow play during the play of a hole. These rules could be applied in every tournament but hardly ever are.
I don't see why it is necessary to have a special tournament to apply these rules. Why not apply them in every tournament.

WHIP IT!

Roger_007 wrote: »

Anything that curtails those long discussions between caddies and players would be worth trying. It's much worse on the PGA tour than the European tour.
There is a rule in the Rules of Golf, (6.7), regarding penalties for undue delay between holes. The rule further states that the 'committee' of a competition may specify penalties for slow play during the play of a hole. These rules could be applied in every tournament but hardly ever are.
I don't see why it is necessary to have a special tournament to apply these rules. Why not apply them in every tournament.

You would hope that that is the ultimate aim...

mike12

slave1 wrote: »

My last three rounds have been well under 3hours on what is a reasonable long course (5.4miles on my GPS), mind you I tee off at 7AM solo to achieve this...

That's not quick. 2 ball first out should be under 3 hours

3putt

Has there been any penalty's yet?

FixdePitchmark

slave1 wrote: »

First groups are in, on average 40minutes earlier so far

Above is key to me.

Watching it for first time - the clock looks far from demanding - they have done most of the crap before they stand up to the ball.

So I guess because they are tour pros the event is on the conservative side, something too radical - just wouldn't suit pros on a real European event.

I think the biggest factor here is that they are actually on clock with ref standing their timing all the time, so their psychology is different - next pro standing up ready to hit - the standing on the tee box for an age and in way of next payer is gone. The next guys is stepping up right away - not talking shot over with caddie.

The fact it doesn't look that demanding - goes to show what sort of nonsense stuff has come in to make it 5.5 hour rounds.

sensible golf pace - doesn't take much.

The putting is still too slow. But one step at a time.

Mantis Toboggan

What's the penalty for going above the alloted time?

callaway92

Tyson Fury wrote: »

What's the penalty for going above the alloted time?

Shot penalty

callaway92

Heard Nick Dougherty say there that there'll be another cut today.

Can someone confirm on what he said - Is is going to be Top 60+ ties. Will this be titled 'MDF', like the usual 3rd Round cuts?

EDIT: Found it - Top 60 is what they are doing

Seve OB

callaway92 wrote: »

Heard Nick Dougherty say there that there'll be another cut today.

Can someone confirm on what he said - Is is going to be Top 60+ ties. Will this be titled 'MDF', like the usual 3rd Round cuts?

EDIT: Found it - Top 60 is what they are doing

yea i had read early in week that cut would be top 65 & ties on friday and another cut on saturday with top 60 & ties

not sure i agree with that

play 2 rounds and p155 of home if you are not going to win anything

or else we will tease you and cost you money to stay another day ..... then you can p155 off home and get nothing

i understand they do that when they have to many people make the cut, but this is planned this week

callaway92

Yeh, was just trying to sort it for work stuff to prevent the inevitable confusion when the round ends.

Not a big fan of it either

slave1

and we have some penalties...

PRADER, 6TH HOLE, PUTT (4 SECONDS OVER ALLOTTED TIME) - Round 3

FORREST, 15TH, APPROACH (3 SECONDS OVER ALLOTTED TIME) - Round 3

PAVAN, 18TH, PUTT (3 SECONDS OVER ALLOTTED TIME) - Round 3

callaway92

Forrest did a heap of complaining saying he wasn't warned/didn't hear time warning...Playing partners said they heard it.

Roger_007

slave1 wrote: »

and we have some penalties...

PRADER, 6TH HOLE, PUTT (4 SECONDS OVER ALLOTTED TIME) - Round 3

FORREST, 15TH, APPROACH (3 SECONDS OVER ALLOTTED TIME) - Round 3

PAVAN, 18TH, PUTT (3 SECONDS OVER ALLOTTED TIME) - Round 3

What way are the penalties recorded. Does the referee/rules official inform the marker of the players card immediately to record an extra stroke(s) for the hole or are penalty strokes added to the players total at the end of the round.
Also, can the player see a countdown clock as he prepares to play his shot?

FixdePitchmark

Fantastic honest comments from

Lundberg
Hanson
Lewis
Colsaerts (" it should be like this every week" )

Just be ready is the big change
You don't have to do much

They want under 4 hours

30 mins quicker


And as amateurs - there is no excuse for over 4 hours - it should be 3.5 hours.

slave1

BRIER, 7TH, APPROACH (1 SECOND OVER ALLOTTED TIME) - Round 4

STARK, 4TH, PUTT (1 SECOND OVER ALLOTTED TIME) - Round 4

slave1

Roger_007 wrote: »

Also, can the player see a countdown clock as he prepares to play his shot?

Yes, unless he has his back to the display that every group has

FixdePitchmark

I've played with guys who wont embrace this.

They don't want ready golf.

Rikand

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

And as amateurs - there is no excuse for over 4 hours - it should be 3.5 hours.

for a 2ball, possibly a 3ball I'd agree. But not every amateur is of the right physical condition or playing ability to be able to run around a golf course in as few a number of shots like you do Fix

FixdePitchmark

Rikand wrote: »

for a 2ball, possibly a 3ball I'd agree. But not every amateur is of the right physical condition or playing ability to be able to run around a golf course in as few a number of shots like you do Fix

I play with men in late 60s - with handicaps in 20s - who wouldn't tolerate over 4 hour rounds.

Rikand

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I play with men in late 60s - with handicaps in 20s - who wouldn't tolerate over 4 hour rounds.

My main point is that not everyone is capable of that.

Golf should be a game for all, not just those who can only physically get around in under 4 hours.

callaway92

Can anyone confirm what happened Felipe Aguilar today to get disqualified?

His 15 on the 16th hole was legit. I'd assume he didn't sign his card or something.

redzerdrog

Pretty impossible for a 4 ball to get round our place in less than 4 hours given the current conditions. Maybe during winter when the rough is cut back.
4 15 is the avarage id imagine