Garda searches

Sponge25

Does mere suspicion give grounds for a guard to search ya on the street? I spent a few months gettin' an ex cons life back together, the police seen us together a few times and stopped us. I gave up on the guy cause he's a lost cause but the police think they can just jump out of the car everytime they see me now and search me, usually no mention of why or on what grounds. I have never been a criminal and have no record...

Sassygirl1999

Sponge25 wrote: »

Does mere suspicion give grounds for a guard to search ya on the street? I spent a few months gettin' an ex cons life back together, the police seen us together a few times and stopped us. I gave up on the guy cause he's a lost cause but the police think they can just jump out of the car everytime they see me now and search me, usually no mention of why or on what grounds. I have never been a criminal and have no record...

sounds like you are now guilty by association, a form of extrajudicial justice

Sponge25

Yep but what grounds do I have to refuse a search? It's bordering on harresment now. It's only 2 or 3 of them but they don't respect any kinda due process. I'm pro police but i'll put a complaint in with their super intendant if it keeps up. You don't get any more law abiding than me, I don't even drink or smoke ffs.

Lmklad

You’ve been associated with a known criminal. As you’ve been previously searched it’s probably recorded on PULSE, so every time your car reg/ name is checked this will show up. You need to write to / meet the local superintendent to explain your association and see what he will do for you.

Sponge25

Lmklad wrote: »

You’ve been associated with a known criminal. As you’ve been previously searched it’s probably recorded on PULSE, so every time your car reg/ name is checked this will show up. You need to write to / meet the local superintendent to explain your association and see what he will do for you.

Thanks, can I make an FOI on what PULSE has on me personally? I was trying to be polite and cooperative but it's embarressing now. The main thing is these guards don't even entertain the thought of the legality of the search, they must think i'm as uneducated as the guy I was trying to help was.

Lmklad

Unfortunately once you’ve been noted in the company of a known criminal they might be justified in so much as the intelligence gathered was accurate but not the context. You can do an FOI but much of the content is exempt. It’d be much easier and quicker to meet with the local Super or Chief Superintendent. They can start the process to having PULSE updated or removing the intelligence altogether.

donegal.

what are the legalities in a stop and search?

Can the guards stop anyone anywhere and search them? Do they have to have a specific suspicion and do they have to inform you of what it is ? And can you refuse to be searched?

Lmklad

Section 23 Misuse of Drugs Act 1977 gives huge powers to Gardai to stop and search. “Reasonable grounds” is all that’s need, so being previously recorded in the company of a known drug user/dealer may be considered reasonable.

You may refuse to be searched on the side of the road and instead opt to be searched at a station. Or you may refuse to be searched at all but there is a power of arrest and you can be forceably searched at a station.

23.—(1) A member of the Garda Síochána who with reasonable cause suspects that a person is in possession in contravention of this Act of a controlled drug, may without warrant—


(a) search the person and, if he considers it necessary for that purpose, detain the person for such time as is reasonably necessary for making the search,

(b) search any vehicle, vessel or aircraft in which he suspects that such drug may be found and for the purpose of carrying out the search may, if he thinks fit, require the person who for the time being is in control of such vehicle, vessel or aircraft to bring it to a stop and when stopped to refrain from moving it, or in case such vehicle, vessel or aircraft is already stationary, to refrain from moving it, or

(c) seize and detain anything found in the course of a search under this section which with such cause appears to him to be something which might be required as evidence in proceedings for an offence under this Act.

(2) Nothing in this section shall operate to prejudice any power to search, or to seize or detain property which may be exercised by a member of the Garda Síochána apart from this section.

cobhguy28

Lmklad wrote: »

Section 23 Misuse of Drugs Act 1977 gives huge powers to Gardai to stop and search. “Reasonable grounds” is all that’s need, so being previously recorded in the company of a known drug user/dealer may be considered reasonable.

"being previously recorded in the company of a known drug user/dealer may be considered reasonable", This is no where near reasonable grounds. The gardai must have reasonable grounds that you are carrying drugs on you at that moment.

sexmag

I had an interesting thought about this all hyptothetical of course.

Say a news channel was doing a live or even prerecorded broadcast in a public place, you are walking by in the background and a guard stop their car and out and do a search as they believe that have reasonable grounds. It's quite clear who you are and what is going on. The next day you are at a job interview and the interviewer saw you on the news and this impacted you getting the job as let's say it's something to do with children or something similar.

Is there recourse for damages against the broadcaster for showing the footage if it adversely effects your future?

n!ghtmancometh

cobhguy28 wrote: »

"being previously recorded in the company of a known drug user/dealer may be considered reasonable", This is no where near reasonable grounds. The gardai must have reasonable grounds that you are carrying drugs on you at that moment.

It's not just drugs. All the gardaí have to demonstrate is that they have a reasonable cause to believe that a search is required. They might say that a person looked nervous or suspicious or was acting in a strange manner. Again, what's the definition of a strange or suspicious manner? The terms are so broad, that any reason really can be given. You being known to local guards to be an acquaintance of a person with a criminal history would probably be enough.

Crap, but that's the power they have. Try and arrange a chat with local super, or failing that your local TD.

kneemos

They'll get tired eventually I imagine if you turn up clean every time.

cobhguy28

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

cobhguy28 wrote: »

"being previously recorded in the company of a known drug user/dealer may be considered reasonable", This is no where near reasonable grounds. The gardai must have reasonable grounds that you are carrying drugs on you at that moment.

It's not just drugs. All the gardaí have to demonstrate is that they have a reasonable cause to believe that a search is required. They might say that a person looked nervous or suspicious or was acting in a strange manner. Again, what's the definition of a strange or suspicious manner? The terms are so broad, that any reason really can be given. You being known to local guards to be an acquaintance of a person with a criminal history would probably be enough.

Crap, but that's the power they have. Try and arrange a chat with local super, or failing that your local TD.

 looking nervous or suspicious might be a reason to stop them and talk to them but by itself it is not enough. 

cobhguy28

"In the modern text, Criminal Law (Charleton, McDermott, and Bolger, Dublin 1999), a reasonable suspicion is defined at p.141 as one “founded on some ground which, if subsequently challenged, will show that the person arresting…acted reasonably.”"    The thing to see here is that the suspicion can stand up when challenged. 

http://www.supremecourt.ie/supremecourt/sclibrary3.nsf/(WebFiles)/8EFADA697CADC57C80257839003F0595/$FILE/DPP v. Gerard ONeill.pdf

brian_t

sexmag wrote: »

Is there recourse for damages against the broadcaster for showing the footage if it adversely effects your future?

If it was in the background of a live interview, then what has the broadcaster done wrong ?

oceanman

why don't you contact the garda ombudsman and explain what been happening? I'm sure they would look into it for you.

Heebie

Sponge25 wrote:

Thanks, can I make an FOI on what PULSE has on me personally? I was trying to be polite and cooperative but it's embarressing now. The main thing is these guards don't even entertain the thought of the legality of the search, they must think i'm as uneducated as the guy I was trying to help was.

Try making s GDPR request.
GDPR came into effect on 25th May.

Sponge25

Heebie wrote: »

Try making s GDPR request.
GDPR came into effect on 25th May.

I'll google it, thanks pal.

Glass fused light

Heebie wrote: »

Try making s GDPR request.
GDPR came into effect on 25th May.

Unless there has been a withdrawal of the exemption by GDPR, Gardai don't have to supply all the information held to anyone under a data access request. If they did every criminal in the country would be putting in requests to find out what information was being compiled to convict long before the Gardai had a case strong enough to get a conviction. the Comissioner can review the file and ask the Gardai to make changes on the applicants behalf.

Granted if the OP is not been investigated they should get their record.

Sponge25

cobhguy28 wrote: »

 looking nervous or suspicious might be a reason to stop them and talk to them but by itself it is not enough. 

It's hard not to look nervous when two guards are staring at ya. :eek: