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NEVS - The new Saab
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05-06-2018 8:40pm#1
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Re-hashing the same car/body from 15 years ago. Groundbreaking stuff
Take a picure of a 3 series 2000 and compare with a 3 series 2018....
Most cars have not changed dramatically in the last 15 years.
So not sure exactly what your point is?
Which groudbreaking car are you referring to?
Change the grill on the front of a 2018 3 series, put in red....guess what you have....a Tesla 3
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I wonder if they will keep the saab quirky traditions?
Like you must select reverse to turn on the car even in an EV. Or silly but endearing key locations as above.
I like saabs, a neighbour of mine had an H plate (UK) saab 9000 in maroon many moons ago when it was new. Now that was a lovely car.
The one I had, another friend had exact same one didn't require you to put into reverse, that was the older models.....
The key location was at the gear stick 0 -
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No I didnt... work blocked them.Shefwedfan wrote: »You didn't watch the videos did you?:p:p
Is it the TG episode where they complain that saab took the GM chassis and spent money making a new satnav system?0 -
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The 9-5 (as the earlier 900) are based on GM architecture but there are a very few similarities. Superficially the mirror adjustment and heated seat buttons are about the only clue.
They also inherited the bulkhead failures from the Vectra
This NEVS thing seems a lot like the typical Chinese car manufacturer tradition of buying old tooling and resurrecting some car we thought was long dead (like Austin Maestros being built in the early 2000s), although the reality is a bit different here. Here's hoping they'll make some newer more original/competitive products in the coming years.0 -
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zilog_jones wrote: »They also inherited the bulkhead failures from the Vectra
That would be NG900 alright. That car was a "bit" of a rush job back in '93 but SAAB got the quality of 9-5 right from the day one 4 years later. Apart from the early inadequate breather system which caused many failed engines on 9-5 before it was redesigned and the oil specs upgraded.0 -
zilog_jones wrote: »They also inherited the bulkhead failures from the Vectra
Nope. Not the 9-5
That also never had an Opel petrol engine as its main engine. The vast majority had the tried and trusted Saab straight 4 turbo petrol (which itself was originally sourced from Triumph in the UK in the 70s - the slant engine)
Wait. Are we in the EV forum still? Lotus Elan turbo for sale:
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Apart from the early inadequate breather system which caused many failed engines on 9-5 before it was redesigned and the oil specs upgraded.
I think it was the oil change interval too? Fully synth and down to 6k miles instead of 12k? Or is my memory becoming rusty at my old age?
My '01 never gave me trouble. Lovely car, albeit not a drivers car. Bought when 10 years old for €1,350 in superb condition, sold 2 years later with a few minor issues (like alarm no longer working) for €1,250. It gave me decent family motoring for very little money during the last bit of the recession when money was extremely tight. Good memories of the car!Lotus Elan turbo for sale:
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Nope. Not the 9-5
That also never had an Opel petrol engine as its main engine. The vast majority had the tried and trusted Saab straight 4 turbo petrol (which itself was originally sourced from Triumph in the UK in the 70s - the slant engine)
Wait. Are we in the EV forum still?
Yea, if you don't like engines skip this rambling about REX on SAABs. All is from top of my head so there could be small inaccuracies: Only the original 99 engine 1967-> was from actually a Triumph designed and built, first with displacement of 1.7 litre and later on enlarged to 1.85. These both were quite problematic engines due to being a half of the Triumph 90 degree V8 and the engine suffered from frequent head gasket failures due to the design relying the combined force from angled head bolts and the inlet manifold to keep the cylinder head in check, a design that didn't really work in an I4 engine. The engines were also considered underpowered at the time and rebuilding was tough as the head bolts tend to rust weld themselves in place. Finally the manual transmission was weak so bit of a disaster really.
SAAB fixed all these major design issues with the 1972 1985cc "B" engine which superficially looked like the previous UK engines but got rid of all of the weak features and was a full in house design. This engine was later on turbocharged for MY78 before new "H" engines were introduced in 1981 that were a bit lighter and more fuel efficient and with the distributor driven directly by the camshaft. Power of these engines remained the same as the predecessor including the turbo at 100-145 PS. In 1983 a 16V head was designed (but the EMS rally car had a 16V head already back in 1977 or so on the B block) and introduced in 900 Aero generating 175 PS and 280 Nm or torque which were very competitive values in early 80's from a two litre engine. A year before that the 8V turbo had already introduced APC (Automatic Performance Control) system that allowed extra boost over the base level if no knock was detected. This maximum power of the 8V turbo was increased to 155 PS at that time.
The 16V engine made it to the new 9000 with some modifications for transversal mounting and the gearbox moved from below the block to a "normal" place after the engine and was at some stage named B201. The 99/900 used a chain drive from crankshaft to the gearbox mounted below the block. The first 9000 engine had still the cylinder block at 45 degree angle but on newer generation 2.0 and 2.3 engines this was eventually gotten rid and eventually they introduced the B204 and B234 "long block" engines, latter being 2290cc in displacement with balancing shafts. This generation like all of the previous and future 2.0 SAAB engines were 1985cc. These late 9000 engines are the most robust engines SAAB ever made and can make up to 700 PS with standard innards and the 1985 is actually preferred due to higher obtainable rpm. These engines continued until around year 2000 on NG900/OG9-3. Before that around 1992 Trionic 5 engine management with direct ignition was introduced which was the most advanced mass produced engine management system in the world. It introduced cool stuff like using the spark plugs to detect conditions in the cylinders to detect detonation before it actually really happens.
On the 9-5 a new family of low friction engines called EcoPower (B205/B235) was meanwhile introduced in late 1997. They are externally very similar to the 2X4 but have both lighter block and the internal components which resulted fuel consumption reduction of 10 percent or so with it's improved Trionic 7 management system. They are not nearly as tuneable as the older engines and for high power 9-5 a B234 rotating parts or a full bottom end can be used instead. The parts between the long block B series are quite interchangeable for mix and match. The red and black ignition cassettes should never be mixed as T5/T7 require different parameters for knock detection.
The EcoPower was the last SAAB in house designed engine line before the B206/7 which were GM based (but SAAB had major input on this family of engines, especially the high output B207 used on Aero models.
So, after this short writeup you now see that none of the SAAB engines since 1972 were Triumph and even the last trace of the the slanted configuration was discontinued with discontinuation of B201 in 1993 when production of the original 900 ceased.0 -
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So, after this short writeup you now see that none of the SAAB engines since 1972 were Triumph and even the last trace of the the slanted configuration was discontinued with discontinuation of B201 in 1993 when production of the original 900 ceased.
Nice writeup! But I disagree with your conclusion. The H engine used in the Saab 9-5 until about 2010 was still a slanted straight 4 based on the Triumph half V8
Not the only car with a setup of half of an existing V8 engine. The Porsche 968 (and the latest and greatest 944 3l S2) used half the V8 engine of the Porsche 928 Lotus Elan turbo for sale:
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Nice writeup! But I disagree with your conclusion. The H engine used in the Saab 9-5 until about 2010 was still a slanted straight 4 based on the Triumph half V8
Not the only car with a setup of half of an existing V8 engine. The Porsche 968 (and the latest and greatest 944 3l S2) used half the V8 engine of the Porsche 928
Cheers Unkel. To continue discussing about these REXes: I'm a turbo kind of person and would love to restore a 944 Turbo as a holiday vehicle but a 968 wouldn't be a bad choice either.
Here's a comparison photos of the B201 and B2X5 to which illustrates the differences and the move from slant to plane rather well. An life is all about learning and I didn't know that the B201 was the 8V engine and B202 the 16V. Now just have to figure out B203 was, probably the 2.1 liter slant 4 that was fitted for a while in 900 in early 90's.0
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