Steinhart?

2shea

How do Steinhart watches get away with ripping off Rolex designs?

Frankie5Angels

Yawn.

On a tangent, how did they think this was a good idea?! It'd be nice without the skull on the dial.

Anjobe

2shea wrote: »

How do Steinhart watches get away with ripping off Rolex designs?

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/ask-watch-experts/why-are-not-watch-companies-suing-copyright-infringement-day-long/.

HDMI

We need a thumbs down button. :rolleyes:

This will do for now.....

oxocube

Still not sure

Deep Thought

2shea wrote: »

How do Steinhart watches get away with ripping off Rolex designs?

How do trolls get access to this forum? We are going to have to implement some controls like TZ or WatchuSeek have.

2shea

I am asking a genuine question and then silly replies talking about trolls.

If you have a Steinhart apologies this not meant as a "trolling" question.

I was thinking of the buying the Ocean Titanium 500 Premium myself and still might the only thing putting me off is the way they copy other designs so blatantly.

There Ocean vintage GMT is a direct copy of an old rolex explorer 2 it's like replica watch minus the Rolex branding.

micks_address

2shea wrote: »

I am asking a genuine question and then silly replies talking about trolls.

If you have a Steinhart apologies this not meant as a "trolling" question.

I was thinking of the buying the Ocean Titanium 500 Premium myself and still might the only thing putting me off is the way they copy other designs so blatantly.

There Ocean vintage GMT is a direct copy of an old rolex explorer 2 it's like replica watch minus the Rolex branding.

Yep but for 500 versus 10k. I got one last month and enjoy it. If you can't see past the brand then you wouldn't enjoy. It's a quality product at a good price. I'm happy with it. It's caught the attention of quite a few people.

2shea

micks_address wrote: »

Yep but for 500 versus 10k. I got one last month and enjoy it. If you can't see past the brand then you wouldn't enjoy. It's a quality product at a good price. I'm happy with it. It's caught the attention of quite a few people.

Cool, if you enjoy it thats great. That's watches are about. They are a nice looking watch and I love to ad one to the collection.

It's not the brand that concerns me, it's just if the changed a few bits to make it there own and not directly copy another's brands designs.

Having the date window at 6 on the Ocean Titanium 500 Premium is an example. Or maybe put the crown at 2 or 4 or even 7.

Wibbs

2shea wrote: »

I am asking a genuine question and then silly replies talking about trolls.

Aye, it's a fair question, so please less of the troll calling folks

micks_address

2shea wrote: »

Cool, if you enjoy it thats great. That's watches are about. They are a nice looking watch and I love to ad one to the collection.

It's not the brand that concerns me, it's just if the changed a few bits to make it there own and not directly copy another's brands designs.

Having the date window at 6 on the Ocean Titanium 500 Premium is an example. Or maybe put the crown at 2 or 4 or even 7.

I guess that's the point of homage watches.. I'm not pretending I have a rolex. It's a classic design that looks great. The sapphire face, automatic movement and strap, weight etc all look and feel quality. Ultimately I can't afford a rolex so I'm happy with the steinhart. I'd much prefer to have one than say a fake rolex or a fashion watch like the armani I got for my 30th

2shea

micks_address wrote: »

I guess that's the point of homage watches.. I'm not pretending I have a rolex. It's a classic design that looks great. The sapphire face, automatic movement and strap, weight etc all look and feel quality. Ultimately I can't afford a rolex so I'm happy with the steinhart. I'd much prefer to have one than say a fake rolex or a fashion watch like the armani I got for my 30th

Armani was my first stainless steel diver style watch and I thought it was the dogs. That was almost 15 years ago now. But 20+ watches later and it's still in the collection as it was the first watch that I saved up for and bought because I liked the look of it. Armani got me in to watches haha

Steinhart are a pretty good package when you look at it. I have no swiss automatics in my collection only Japanese watches. Seiko automatics, citizens ecos and and Seiko Kenitic's I'm on the look out for a Tudor Pelagos ETA but the Ocean Titanium 500 Premium might be a better way to add a Swiss automatic to the collection.

I suppose the other thought I was having about STEINHART is are they going to be a brand that will be looked down on maybe 5 Or 10 years from now due to there homage designs or is this a non issue?

2shea

Anjobe wrote: »

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/ask-watch-experts/why-are-not-watch-companies-suing-copyright-infringement-day-long/.

That's my question answered there! Thanks 🖒

micks_address

2shea wrote: »

Armani was my first stainless steel diver style watch and I thought it was the dogs. That was almost 15 years ago now. But 20+ watches later and it's still in the collection as it was the first watch that I saved up for and bought because I liked the look of it. Armani got me in to watches haha

Steinhart are a pretty good package when you look at it. I have no swiss automatics in my collection only Japanese watches. Seiko automatics, citizens ecos and and Seiko Kenitic's I'm on the look out for a Tudor Pelagos ETA but the Ocean Titanium 500 Premium might be a better way to add a Swiss automatic to the collection.

I suppose the other thought I was having about STEINHART is are they going to be a brand that will be looked down on maybe 5 Or 10 years from now due to there homage designs or is this a non issue?

Not sure what you mean by locked down? I'm wondering myself if I'd rather have say 3 steinhart or maybe something like a seamaster for less than 2k.. If I had the cash I do like the look of the rolex batman.. Still coukd buy a small car for it so would be hard to justify for me with current income versus bills and outgoings etc..

893bet

micks_address wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by locked down? I'm wondering myself if I'd rather have say 3 steinhart or maybe something like a seamaster for less than 2k.. If I had the cash I do like the look of the rolex batman.. Still coukd buy a small car for it so would be hard to justify for me with current income versus bills and outgoings etc..

3 years after dropping the 8.5k to buy the car it will have lost 60-70 percent of what you paid.

3 years after you buy the BLNR it will be the same value, potentially more, and you had the pleasure of wearing it!

Eoin

2shea wrote:

I was thinking of the buying the Ocean Titanium 500 Premium myself and still might the only thing putting me off is the way they copy other designs so blatantly.

That model has a different material, hands, colour & dial to any Rolex sub I am aware of, so that's probably a good one to pick if that's a concern for you. If anyone were to mistake it for a Rolex, then they're just as likely to mistake some Tudors, Tags, Blancpains etc.

If you don't want a Rolex homage, then look at the Ocean 2 or Triton. If those are still too similar to something else, then there some other micro brands out there who do something a bit more different, like a brass case or California dial or whatever.

Steinhart's thing is doing homages, at a good price and with a quality that you often don't find in watches 2 or 3 times the RRP. They also do some more unique models, which selling the homages probably has enabled them to do without being a completely obscure brand.

2shea wrote:

I suppose the other thought I was having about STEINHART is are they going to be a brand that will be looked down on maybe 5 Or 10 years from now due to there homage designs or is this a non issue?

I am sure some people will, just like they do now. Do you care? If you want to get a Pelagos later and that's why you like this Steinhart, then maybe it's worth just paying the extra for a 2nd hand Pelagos.

micks_address

893bet wrote: »

3 years after dropping the 8.5k to buy the car it will have lost 60-70 percent of what you paid.

3 years after you buy the BLNR it will be the same value, potentially more, and you had the pleasure of wearing it!

Yes but it won't drop the kids off to school unfortunately

Wibbs

2shea wrote: »

Armani was my first stainless steel diver style watch and I thought it was the dogs. That was almost 15 years ago now. But 20+ watches later and it's still in the collection as it was the first watch that I saved up for and bought because I liked the look of it. Armani got me in to watches haha

Nothing wrong with that. Watch collectors tend to look down on "fashion watches", but a brand like Fossil does more watch visual design in a year than a brand like Rolex has done in twenty.

Eoin wrote: »

If anyone were to mistake it for a Rolex, then they're just as likely to mistake some Tudors, Tags, Blancpains etc.

True. Never mind that the vast majority of people won't even notice. So buy and wear what you want and what appeals to you.

oxocube

Wibbs wrote: »

True. Never mind that the vast majority of people won't even notice. So buy and wear what you want and what appeals to you.

This is very true. There's a saying that only hookers and other men notice expensive watches.

I tend to buy what I like however I find my tastes evolving the more I understand about horology

Lorddrakul

oxocube wrote: »

This is very true. There's a saying that only hookers and other men notice expensive watches.

I tend to buy what I like however I find my tastes evolving the more I understand about horology

That's a good point.
I have a pile of interesting but inexpensive watches.

But each one is, to me, a good representation of a breed.

There are pilot chronos, Motorsport chronos, divers, etc, but each one is a distinctive version of each.

My favourite currently is a Valjoux 7750 pilot chrono from a brand that I can find zero information on. But it is a nice one!

2shea

Eoin wrote: »

That model has a different material, hands, colour & dial to any Rolex sub I am aware of, so that's probably a good one to pick if that's a concern for you. If anyone were to mistake it for a Rolex, then they're just as likely to mistake some Tudors, Tags, Blancpains etc..

Yes that's why I like this one it's different enough to give it's on identity. Think it might even be a better option then the Pelagos I'm lusting after, and put the money a save towards a omega plant ocean 49.5mm or rolex explorer 39mm

The_Guvnor

Steinhart are excellent quality/value pieces for the money. I have owned an Ocean One Vintage Military and it was an excellent homage to the Rolex 5517 Milsub. With regards to the original post, Steinhart can make homages with breaching copyright; as the Rolex Submariner and GMT vintage models they base their pieces on; have patents which have now expired after 30 years etc. Also as they aren't direct copies, with some subtle changes such as case design; they aren't producing counterfeit replicas, which of course Rolex would pursue for copyright infringement.
Günter Steinhart did have to change the name of Steinhart in America to Debaufre however due to another watch company with a similar sounding name to Steinhart launching a legal claim. Rather than fight the claim, Günter Steinhart decided just to change the branding in America to Debaufre. He then split with his partner in 2008 and Debaufre and Steinhart continued on as separate brands.

o1s1n

Just received some great customer service from Steinhart. I've been wearing one of their Nav B Urhrs for the last year.

The leather strap was after getting tatty and was starting to split. Contacted them and they sent me another strap out in the post completely free of charge.

The_Guvnor

o1s1n wrote: »

Just received some great customer service from Steinhart. I've been wearing one of their Nav B Urhrs for the last year.

The leather strap was after getting tatty and was starting to split. Contacted them and they sent me another strap out in the post completely free of charge.

I have heard similar from others with regard to Steinhart's excellent customer service. One of the reasons I purchased my Ocean One Vintage Military from them earlier this year. I was surprised to get an email from Günter Steinhart himself when I enquired about it before purchasing. Check out Austin Daniels Youtube video discussing Steinhart v Squale when he email enquired about getting pieces serviced.
He found Squale have zero customer service compared to Steinhart's respectively.
For their price tier Steinhart represent excellent quality/value. I would recommend them to anyone looking for a first Swiss made automatic piece.

fret_wimp2

2shea wrote: »

How do Steinhart watches get away with ripping off Rolex designs?

This comes up all the time and IMO its down to the attitude of the person buying the watch.

If you're buying in hope that someone will grab a quick glance at your watch on the bus an think its a more expensive model then yea, you're buying a ripoff, or at least you're hoping you're buying a ripoff.

If you're buying because you like the style & features from an original watch but cant get them due to it being too expensive or simply unavailable, then having a watch that is not the same but "inspired by" is absolutely acceptable.

Next, to address the term "ripoff", this assumes counterfeit or copy. Any legit watch company does not counterfeit or copy the originals, but they do take design queues and inspiration from them, often quite heavily.

Remember horology is a hobby obsessed with details
Lets take the Steinhart OVM as an example, a homage to the rolex milsub ***.
To someone who doesnt care about watches, they look pretty much the same.
To someone with an interest in watches there are tons of differences:

-Rolex has fixed bars, Steinhart does not.
-Rolex is 39mm diameter, Steinhart is 42mm.
-Rolex has rolex on the dial, Stienhart has steinhart on the dial!
-Font on dial is different.
-Rolex has the crown, Stienhart has no logo, more spartan.
-Rolex has lug width of 20mm, Steinhart 22.
-Rolex has rolex movement, Steinhart an ETA.
-Crown is drastically different on both
-Steinhart does not have drilled lugs.
-Steinhart wears much longer.

Thats just off the top of my head, without looking at specific variations of the Rolex Milsub. To a watch aficionado those are two absolutely different watches, impossible to confuse them.

If you want to compare them in respect to performance, i.e. diving and use as as a tool watch id happily wager that they will both perform well, but if you loan me a rolex milsub il do the tests for you!

micks_address wrote: »

I'm wondering myself if I'd rather have say 3 steinhart or maybe something like a seamaster for less than 2k.

why do you need to have 3 Steinhart? is it a case that you just have to spend that 2k on watches? id love a Ferrari, but i would think, na, its too much, il go buy 20 Octavia's instead.
If you find a watch you like, its within budget, why cant it be enough?


***I know there are many milsub variations, im not very familiar with all and their specifics so im being a little general in my comparison to quickly make my point

micks_address

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

This comes up all the time and IMO its down to the attitude of the person buying the watch.

If you're buying in hope that someone will grab a quick glance at your watch on the bus an think its a more expensive model then yea, you're buying a ripoff, or at least you're hoping you're buying a ripoff.

If you're buying because you like the style & features from an original watch but cant get them due to it being too expensive or simply unavailable, then having a watch that is not the same but "inspired by" is absolutely acceptable.

Next, to address the term "ripoff", this assumes counterfeit or copy. Any legit watch company does not counterfeit or copy the originals, but they do take design queues and inspiration from them, often quite heavily.

Remember horology is a hobby obsessed with details
Lets take the Steinhart OVM as an example, a homage to the rolex milsub ***.
To someone who doesnt care about watches, they look pretty much the same.
To someone with an interest in watches there are tons of differences:

-Rolex has fixed bars, Steinhart does not.
-Rolex is 39mm diameter, Steinhart is 42mm.
-Rolex has rolex on the dial, Stienhart has steinhart on the dial!
-Font on dial is different.
-Rolex has the crown, Stienhart has no logo, more spartan.
-Rolex has lug width of 20mm, Steinhart 22.
-Rolex has rolex movement, Steinhart an ETA.
-Crown is drastically different on both
-Steinhart does not have drilled lugs.
-Steinhart wears much longer.

Thats just off the top of my head, without looking at specific variations of the Rolex Milsub. To a watch aficionado those are two absolutely different watches, impossible to confuse them.

If you want to compare them in respect to performance, i.e. diving and use as as a tool watch id happily wager that they will both perform well, but if you loan me a rolex milsub il do the tests for you!




why do you need to have 3 Steinhart? is it a case that you just have to spend that 2k on watches? id love a Ferrari, but i would think, na, its too much, il go buy 20 Octavia's instead.
If you find a watch you like, its within budget, why cant it be enough?


***I know there are many milsub variations, im not very familiar with all and their specifics so im being a little general in my comparison to quickly make my point

I don't need three but my point is if I wanted a diver watch, something more dressy etc..

oxocube

I own two Steinharts. The Ocean one and the GMT Vintage. Both models look similar to the casual glance but in terms of style complete different (to my eye anyway).

I might squeeze one out of the collection if I get board of one but not for a while

blue5000

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

This comes up all the time and IMO its down to the attitude of the person buying the watch.


If you're buying because you like the style & features from an original watch but cant get them due to it being too expensive or simply unavailable, then having a watch that is not the same but "inspired by" is absolutely acceptable.


If you want to compare them in respect to performance, i.e. diving and use as as a tool watch id happily wager that they will both perform well, but if you loan me a rolex milsub il do the tests for you!







***I know there are many milsub variations, im not very familiar with all and their specifics so im being a little general in my comparison to quickly make my point

Rolex is a bit out of my price league so I have a Steiny instead.



But I have to say those lugs are nearly as long as Julia Roberts' legs:pac:

The_Guvnor

Great choice. I recently sold my Ocean One Vintage Military on Adverts. I think at the 400 Euro price tier they cannot be beaten.
Some people have a problem with homages, some don't. Personally I liked that it gave me the feeling of what wearing a Milsub 5517 would be like. I don't have, and will never have; 100K+ to spend on one; so for 400 I was happy to have something close. I was on a waiting list for 12 months for a 114060; which then arrived earlier than expected so sold my Steinhart. But the truth is, I enjoyed wearing both equally as much. It comes down to this, some like Steinhart and some don't. I don't agree with fakes or replicas, but do agree with homages; as no one is being fooled, or trying to fool anyone. Agreed on the long lugs, I think its often a reason why people flip Steinhart's soon after they buy them. I have 8" wrists so it wasn't a problem; but under 6.5" and they do sit high (even more so on a NATO as shown). What I don't get is why people moan about homages? If you dislike them, no problem, don't buy them. I sold my 114060 and bought my current 116613LN; and truth be told, I enjoyed my Steinhart just as much. I also enjoy my Casio MDV106 just as much. So for some people the brand isn't the only thing one cares about. For me its the overall design and feeling I get when I wear a piece; homage or original piece the same.