How can I have hot water without heating

Wishbone Ash

Hi all.

My current house does not have a conventional hotpress with an immersion as my previous ones had.

The heating is with kerosene which I presume also heats the water. There are 3 switches in the garage marked CH, SINK and BATH. I have the thermostat for the heating set at zero at the moment but the heating is still coming on. If I switch off the CH switch, the hot water gets cold (gradually).

Is there any way around this? This evening the house was 26 degrees, yet I had to put on the heating to get hot water!

The control panel has 3 zones - the previous owner said 1 was for hot water, 2 was for downstairs heating and 3 was for upstairs heating.

(The thermostat seems to work correctly in winter as the heating comes on if it's turned up and vice versa).

Excuse my ignorance on the matter. I have very little knowledge and little interest in my heating system but don't really want to take a day off work and pay a plumber €80 to come to flick a switch.

Where am I going wrong?

listermint

Text the previous owner ?

MAJJ

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Hi all.

My current house does not have a conventional hotpress with an immersion as my previous ones had.

The heating is with kerosene which I presume also heats the water. There are 3 switches in the garage marked CH, SINK and BATH. I have the thermostat for the heating set at zero at the moment but the heating is still coming on. If I switch off the CH switch, the hot water gets cold (gradually).

Is there any way around this? This evening the house was 26 degrees, yet I had to put on the heating to get hot water!

The control panel has 3 zones - the previous owner said 1 was for hot water, 2 was for downstairs heating and 3 was for upstairs heating.

(The thermostat seems to work correctly in winter as the heating comes on if it's turned up and vice versa).

Excuse my ignorance on the matter. I have very little knowledge and little interest in my heating system but don't really want to take a day off work and pay a plumber €80 to come to flick a switch.

Where am I going wrong?

Best to post pictures and model of your boiler and any main obvious valves/plumbing.
In there a hot water take or is generated as needs by the boiler i.e a combi boiler.
https://www.worcester-bosch.ie/products/boilers/explained

Wishbone Ash

Here's a few pics:

Wishbone Ash

listermint wrote: »

Text the previous owner ?

I might ask him if I see him but I've a feeling he knows less than me about these things!

Wishbone Ash

MAJJ wrote: »

.....In there a hot water take or is generated as needs by the boiler i.e a combi boiler....

I've no idea. There is a large plastic 1100 liter water tank in the garage beside that white tank. The water pressure is always very high. (No tank in attic).

denismc

In the second picture there are 2 yellow boxes that look like actuators for valves, these are most likely your zone valves. Toggle the switches on the wall on and off to see if these valves open and close.
Also you can turn off the individual radiators to keep them from heating up.

MAJJ

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I've no idea. There is a large plastic 1100 liter water tank in the garage beside that white tank. The water pressure is always very high. (No tank in attic).

If that picture of the temp stat is the one on the water tank then it looks set to 0 and should be approx 60.

Looks like you have immersion controls to that tank alao. Also I see yellow actuators for zoning, in a 3 zone setup normally there is one for each zone. Do you have 3 of these , they should light and engage when a zone is activated.

Anyway am not a plumber and no little on this but reckon your water stat may be the issue, just crank it.

eurokev

You CH switch is probably on to the burner of your boiler. ie this needs to be on to use your kerosene heating.

Looking at the other two switches they appear to be connected in to heating elements in your hot water tank, to hear your water electrically.

Your digital controller for your heating is probably zoned and controls the turning on and off of your burner and the opening of valves to different zones - upstairs, downstairs and water.

You really really do sound completely clueless however. It might actually be worth getting a friend over who will be able to explain it all to you. If not I'd consider paying someone to walk you through it.
It's a very easy to explain set up, but hard to convey in text

eurokev

Noticed you said if you switch the CH switch off the water goes cold.

This means that the immersion elements are controlled by this master switch.

You have both immersion elements on now at the mo in the picture. I'd say you are being highly inefficient with your energy usage for water heating

bbari

I agree with the above post. The switches are to use electricity to heat the water, so turn all of em off.

The Zone 1 on the digital panel is for the water, turn that on for an hour and you should have hot water. Keep other 2 zones off as they are for heating. Turn up the thermostat as its on zero.

I've similar setup and that's what i do anyway.

Wishbone Ash

denismc wrote: »

In the second picture there are 2 yellow boxes that look like actuators for valves, these are most likely your zone valves. Toggle the switches on the wall on and off to see if these valves open and close....

Yes, there are actually 3 of them. There are also new boxed ones left by the previous owner - spares? Do they need to be replaced often?

I'll try switching them off tomorrow.

MAJJ wrote: »

If that picture of the temp stat is the one on the water tank then it looks set to 0 and should be approx 60.

No, it's the heating stat in the living room. The white tank has a control set at 45. (45 degrees?)

.. I see yellow actuators for zoning, in a 3 zone setup normally there is one for each zone. Do you have 3 of these , they should light and engage when a zone is activated....

Yes, 3 of them.

Thanks for your help lads. I'll try some more tomorrow.

(The upstairs temp is now showing 26.9 degrees even though the heating has been off for a while!)

listermint

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I might ask him if I see him but I've a feeling he knows less than me about these things!

There's no way the Owner paid for that work to be done and it wasn't explained to him. He's number one contact

Wishbone Ash

eurokev wrote: »

...You really really do sound completely clueless however. It might actually be worth getting a friend over who will be able to explain it all to you. If not I'd consider paying someone to walk you through it...

Yes, clueless and not particularly interested in learning either. Too much going on in my life without adding heating. I wouldn't mind but both my brothers are fitters and this would be their bread and butter but they're not in the country.

eurokev wrote: »

... I'd say you are being highly inefficient with your energy usage for water heating

Ah! That probably explains why I was getting 500 liters of kerosene every 6-8 weeks!

bbari wrote: »

I agree with the above post. The switches are to use electricity to heat the water, so turn all of em off.

The Zone 1 on the digital panel is for the water, turn that on for an hour and you should have hot water. Keep other 2 zones off as they are for heating. Turn up the thermostat as its on zero.

I've similar setup and that's what i do anyway.

I try that thanks.

eurokev

There really is not much to learn at all. It is very very very simple if you just had somebody there to explain it to you.

There's no need to go in to specific heat capacities, transfer coefficients etc... Lol

Would be well worth getting someone over ( we all like to spend less on bills no matter how busy our lives are;well I do anyway), it would be a hell of a lot less effort than trying to decipher what fellow boardsies are trying explain - believe me

Wishbone Ash

listermint wrote: »

There's no way the Owner paid for that work to be done and it wasn't explained to him. He's number one contact

eurokev wrote: »

There really is not much to learn at all. It is very very very simple if you just had somebody there to explain it to you.

There's no need to go in to specific heat capacities, transfer coefficients etc... Lol

Would be well worth getting someone over ( we all like to spend less on bills no matter how busy our lives are;well I do anyway), it would be a hell of a lot less effort than trying to decipher what fellow boardsies are trying explain - believe me

The previous owner (a very busy businessman) employed a 'maintenance man' to look after these sort of things. My wife reckons we should get him over if we can contact him.

May Contain Small Parts

You have two ways of heating hot tap water:

Immersion and Boiler. Use one, not both (ie. turn on Sink/Bath OR Zone1)

Immersion (heats water in tank with electric elements, like a kettle):
The relevant controls are the SINK and BATH switches, and the dial on the tank.
The dial should be set to 60+. If you want hot water this way you need to turn on the one/both of the switches and wait for it to heat up, then turn it off when you're done.

Boiler (heats recirculating water in boiler which then runs through a heat-exchanger in the tank heating the (separate) water in the tank):
This is "Zone 1" on your timer. You can either hit "boost"(turns it on for 1hour) or set it to come on once/twice a day (how long will depends on your system etc, but it takes about 30 mins on mine). This is my personal preference because you can have it on a timer. Eg. mine comes on 06:00->06:30 and 12:00->12.20, and heats enough for everything throughout the day.


Not working? Could be a few things..

Immersion:
Assuming that you're waiting long enough for it to heat and you have turner on enough of the switches to meet your needs, it could be something like burned out elements or a blown fuse. If it's not being used much then this is unlikely.
Make sure to turn it off when the water is heated or you will burn out the elements eventually...if you haven't drowned in your own tears after reading your electricity bills first.

Boiler:
Controlled with the timer, thermostats, valves and boiler-thermostat**
the circuit looks like this (Rooms)-> If the timer is on, it sends power to the boiler(starts heating water) and it sends power to the thermostat -> if the temp. is below what the thermostat dial says it sends power to the valve(Zones 2&3) -> the valve then opens and water flows from the boiler to the rads (assuming the valve is set to "Auto"/whatever -> toasty warm

hot water -> as above except there's no thermostat so when the timer is on it opens the valve(zone1) -> hot water flows to the heat-exchanger in the tank -> water in tank begins to heat up-> wait about 30min-> Hot water coming from taps!

So this tells us...
*what it says on the thermostats is irrelevant, these control zones 2&3(rads)
*set "zone1" only to come on if you want hot water but not heating.
*you need to wait a while for it to heat up. When you use the hot water, it's gone.
*check that the valves (yellow boxes) are set to "auto"

Sorry if this is a bit rambling...I think this addresses everything?

Edit: The "CH fuse" switch. leave it on all the time. if you want to turn off the rads/boiler it should be done with the timer.
The other thing you might check is the water pressure in your heating system, doesn't sound like this is a problem as the heating is working but good to check. it's a dial somewhere that should read 1-2 bar


*It's a metal tank FYI, but enclosed in insulation and a plastic outer shell.
**this sounds like it's working fine, so don't worry about it. It just tells the boiler how much to heat the circulating water to before cutting off. You may choose to turn it up/down a little in Winter/Summer.