2018: Delaware becomes *first* US state to ban child marriage

I always associated child marriage with the Later Middle Ages in Europe (The 'age of puberty', 12, was the minimum age a girl could marry in Medieval Ireland, for instance) or with Africa or the Muslim world today.

I had assumed child marriage was illegal everywhere in the western world but this is far from the reality. Reading The New York Times this morning, I came across this:

Dawn Tyree was 11 years old when a family friend began to molest her. A bit more than a year later, she became pregnant from these rapes, and her parents found out what had been going on. But they didn’t go to the police; instead, they found another solution.

“It was decided for me that I would marry him,” Tyree recalled.

So Tyree, then 13, was married to her rapist, then age 32. She became one of the thousands of underage American girls who are married each year, often sacrificing their futures to reduce embarrassment to their parents. Statutory rape is thus sanctioned by the state as marriage, and the abuser ends up not in handcuffs but showered with wedding gifts.

Our State Department protests child marriage in Africa and Asia (worldwide, a girl 14 or younger is married every 11 seconds, according to Save the Children), but every state in America allowed child marriages. That has finally changed. Last month Delaware became the first state to ban all child marriages, without exception.... Last year I wrote about Sherry Johnson, a Florida woman who had been married at the age of 11 to her rapist. After that article, many readers wrote to me saying that my facts were wrong and that their state had a minimum age of 18 for marriage.

Sadly, the facts were right. Yes, states set a minimum age of 18, but they also allow exceptions, such as with the approval of parents or a court, or when a girl is pregnant. Indeed, 20 states don’t set any minimum statutory age for marriage, according to the Tahirih Justice Center’s Forced Marriage Initiative.

That column about child marriage, along with other publicity and heroic efforts of many activists, prodded legislators to re-examine the issue, but the strongest opposition to a change has come from conservatives who argue that a pregnant girl should be able to marry the unborn child’s father. The idea is that such a marriage will avert an abortion, or at least increase the prospect that the child is raised by a married couple rather than by a struggling single parent.

I understand the goal. But in practice, these marriages involving child brides often don’t succeed and frequently lead to marriages between a young girl and her older rapist.

Nicholas Kristof, An American 13-Year-Old, Pregnant and Married to Her Rapist (1 June 2018)

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The justification in the US today for child marriage as a means to save family reputation when a daughter is pregnant is like something from the nether regions of Pakistan. It's essentially in very many cases authorising the marriage of a victim of paedophilia to the paedophile, who will no doubt move on to do the same thing with another child. Such utter madness just to protect the reputation of "respectable" people.



Do you think there should be a minimum age for getting married and if so, should it be the same age - 18 - where you can legally sign contracts? As the biggest contract you'll ever sign will probably be your marriage, it's more than a bit odd that with an "Exemption Order" under a 1995 amendment to Irish law, a judge can still grant permission for somebody under 18 to get married (for years they've been talking about removing that 'exemption' and a Bill is in place but the law hasn't removed it yet and in law there is still no minimum marriage age in Ireland: a judge could authorise marriage between a 13-year-old and a 23-year-old). Or should the state not interfere in the private lives of citizens and allow citizens to get married when they choose?

Look at this map of the world (the whole website is hugely informative), and the vast areas where child marriage is still legally sanctioned:

Child marriage around the world in 2018

Eggs For Dinner

The world continues to be a place unfit for human habitation

mad muffin

No; a 17-year-old should have the right to marry

It’s absolutely abhorrent :mad:

I still don’t believe that I can live on the same planet as these people.

Samuel T. Cogley

TBH I'm not sure we were very far in front in that legislation. Although my understanding was it wasn't used.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/exemptions-for-child-marriage-in-domestic-violence-bill-welcomed-by-ispcc-775443.html

jaxxx

No; a 17-year-old should have the right to marry

Americans have always been a bit screwy with regards to issues such as gun control and everything but this........ I'd expect this sort of thing to still happen in 'certain' countries today but certainly not in any Western countries. I actually feel sick.

biko

No; a 17-year-old should have the right to marry

Why is poll public?

Harry Palmr

I posted about this a year or two back on some thread or other about American laws (probably after a mass murder!) Yep the federal laws on this matter have long been divorced from state law.

wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_the_United_States

Child marriage in the United States refers to a marriage where at least one party is under the age of 18.[1] Between 2000 and 2015, 87% of child marriages in the U.S. involved underage girls, while 13% involved underage boys. The legality of child marriage varies from state to state.[2][3]

The general age of marriage in the United States is 18, with the exception of Nebraska (19) and Mississippi (21). However, every state but Delaware allows exceptions to their age of marriage, such as parental consent, judicial consent, pregnancy, or a combination of these. When all exceptions are taken into account, 21 U.S. states[4] have no minimum age requirement.[5][6] Twenty-nine of the jurisdictions have a minimum age in these cases, which varies between 13 and 18, the youngest being 13 (New Hampshire, females only).

Vladimir Poontang

Home of the brave, land of the free.

They hate us for our freedoms


Never knew 9/11 was caused by lads jealous of the yanks raping children then marrying them

You learn something new every day

fergiesfolly

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

The world continues to be a place unfit for human habitation

The world is fine. Its the humans that are unfit.

And we may mock the USA and third world countries for their abhorrent behaviour, but we're no better in many ways and are just starting to establish the human rights that have been withheld from so many of our citizens.

Donald Trump

I wanted to move to Delaware with Ivanka when she was 12 but she wouldn't come with me

Hande hoche!

Fair play to Mississippi.

odyssey06

The state has no business interfering: let the child decide

A 17 year old isn't a child they are a youth or young adult.
A 17 year old can have sex in Ireland so does mean Ireland allows child sex? No.

It means the concept of a 17 year old being a child is ludicrous NGO nonsense so they can make their statistics more headline grabbing.

odyssey06

The state has no business interfering: let the child decide

Age of consent in Portugal is 14, but let's all laugh at the USA... instead of the sophisticated Europeaan Country we are in a formal political association with.

suicide_circus

odyssey06 wrote: »

Age of consent in Portugal is 14, but let's all laugh at the USA... instead of the sophisticated Europeaan Country we are in a formal political association with.

Yes but only with other teenagers. It's not like a 45 year old can legally have sex with a 14 year old in Portugal

odyssey06

The state has no business interfering: let the child decide

suicide_circus wrote: »

Yes but only with other teenagers. It's not like a 45 year old can legally have sex with a 14 year old in Portugal

Age of marriage is 15 in Estonia, 16 in a lot of EU countries. That is set at a higher age by many US states.

It's almost as if all these different jurisdictions have come to different decisions.

Anyone using it as the basis for a thread slagging off the US is just demonstrating their own ignorance and\or pushing an obvious anti USA agenda.

odyssey06

No; a 17-year-old should have the right to marry

odyssey06 wrote: »

A 17 year old isn't a child they are a youth or young adult.
A 17 year old can have sex in Ireland so does mean Ireland allows child sex? No.

It means the concept of a 17 year old being a child is ludicrous NGO nonsense so they can make their statistics more headline grabbing.

Yet, as said, for the vast majority of legal contracts in this state (at least), a 17-year-old has not got the legal standing to sign them. It would be more than odd if they were permitted to sign what is usually the biggest legal contract in their life, their marriage, at an age before this.

Outlaw Pete

biko wrote: »

Why is poll public?

So we can see who selects "The state has no business interfering: let the child decide".

Thread was started by Dark Justice :P

odyssey06

No; a 17-year-old should have the right to marry

odyssey06 wrote: »

Age of marriage is 15 in Estonia, 16 in a lot of EU countries. That is set at a higher age by many US states.

If Estonia's the worst you can come up with, you must have missed this part from your Wikipedia search:

The age of consent in Estonia is 14, as specified by Section 145 (sexual intercourse with a child), which reads: "An adult person who engages in sexual intercourse with a person of less than 14 years of age shall be punished by up to 5 years’ imprisonment."

And this part from the NYT article in the op:

Indeed, 20 [US] states don’t set any minimum statutory age for marriage

So, on at least two counts even Estonia's backward régime manages to be ethically superior to 20 US states on the issue of child marriage, where adults can still legally marry children - and very many of these marriages to children are to preserve family status or respect. How hard could it be to get the magnitude of what's happening here/being legalised here?

odyssey06 wrote: »

Anyone using it as the basis for a thread slagging off the US is just demonstrating their own ignorance and\or pushing an obvious anti USA agenda.

Perhaps if you have an issue with an American author in an American newspaper highlighting this yesterday, and with an American state, Delaware, only this year becoming the first US state to outlaw child marriage, you could contact both of them with a complaint about their audacity in reporting current news?

kneemos

odyssey06 wrote: »

Age of marriage is 15 in Estonia, 16 in a lot of EU countries. That is set at a higher age by many US states.

It's almost as if all these different jurisdictions have come to different decisions.

Anyone using it as the basis for a thread slagging off the US is just demonstrating their own ignorance and\or pushing an obvious anti USA agenda.

This bad thing makes this other bad thing OK.

hatrickpatrick

Age of consent should be 16, age of marriage should be 18, and there should be no penalty for people of either gender who have consensual sex with someone who is within their age bracket for school, regardless of whether they're underage. No teenager should be prosecuted for sexual activity with their peers, and it's absolutely moronic that this is still a thing in a world which has long since moved beyond the belief that teenagers can be prevented from indulging their hormonal urges.

Cabaal

odyssey06 wrote: »

Age of consent in Portugal is 14, but let's all laugh at the USA... instead of the sophisticated Europeaan Country we are in a formal political association with.

Age of consent in the Vatican was 12 upto around 2011,

Women going for the "women in the home" referendum might be better off making sure a proper minimum age for marriage exists here.

No problem with doing both of course, but one means a lot and the other is simply language that has no effect on anyone.

RandomName2

No; a 17-year-old should have the right to marry

odyssey06 wrote: »

Age of consent in Portugal is 14, but let's all laugh at the USA... instead of the sophisticated Europeaan Country we are in a formal political association with.

So? You might find that we are the ones lagging behind the rest of Europe, like we were with abortion legislation. We have a higher age of consent than anywhere in mainland Europe. We've also seemed to have had a higher proportion of institutional sexual abuse than anywhere on mainland Europe, go figure.

Marriage is a legal contract, which should be barred for anyone under eighteen.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

BoJack Horseman

France doesn't even have an age of consent..... Though they are soon to enact one of 15 after two mohammadeans were on trial for having sex with two 11 year olds

RandomName2

No; a 17-year-old should have the right to marry

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

France doesn't even have an age of consent..... Though they are soon to enact one of 15 after two mohammadeans were on trial for having sex with two 11 year olds

I think it's always been 15

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#France

Perhaps there was special pleading in relation to cultural differences in the case you're referencing (though as most Muslim countries either have an age of consent of 18 or make sex outside marriage entirely illegal, in this case the people in question were probably married to the 11 year olds? :eek:)

BoJack Horseman

RandomName2 wrote: »

I think it's always been 15

Nominally, but they seemed to have a big problem wrt proving consent & coercion, so the Macron administration are putting 15 as a 'no ifs or buts' age of consent.

That's so gross those poor children

Permabear

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Taytoland

Have Islamists in Delaware been briefed on this?

mdwexford

Permabear wrote: »

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Oh you still can.

Permabear

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Permabear

No; a 17-year-old should have the right to marry

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

It's often a decent idea to read the op first.

kneemos

Permabear wrote: »

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Think that law was changed a while back.
Over eighteen now.

Permabear

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Samuel T. Cogley

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

As the article I linked above. AFAIK the bill became law sometime in 2017.

mdwexford

kneemos wrote: »

Think that law was changed a while back.
Over eighteen now.

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

As the article I linked above. AFAIK the bill became law sometime in 2017.

It wasn't.

A Circuit Court judge can still grant a marriage exemption for under 18s.