Can't decide where to live.

unknowngirl!!

Can anyone offer any advice on the following...

I'm Irish and my partner is French. At the moment we live in Paris and we planned on eventually moving to Ireland when the time was right. However, I had a health scare last year and was advised that if I wanted children that I'd have to try immediately as I'm facing a hysterectomy in the near future. That was almost a year ago and we now have a nine month old.. who was born with a rare disease and is very unwell at times.

As time is against us we started tying for Baby 2 in Jan and I'm three months pregnant now. I have pretty much been in Ireland since the birth of Baby 1 as there is a specialist surgeon in Crumlin for his disease and he requires surgical intervention frequently (this should lessen from July if all continues as well as it is at the moment). We planned on moving home this summer and settling in Ireland as we'd be close to Crumlim and have help from my family with baby.

However, two months ago my partner applied for a dream job thinking he'd never get it but he did, and now we don't know what to do.

The new job is in the south of France (before babies I lived for sun and sea) and after tax he'd be taking home about 80K, plus 8k in bonuses and a company car. It all sounds dreamy but we know no one there and I think it would be very tough on me to be on my own with two small babies, one of whom has a rare disease and needs twice daily interventions as well as significant extra care in general. There is a 70% chance of our next child having the same disease if it is a boy and a 13% chance if it is a girl. I'm worried about how I would cope if I was on my own with two sick babies with no support other than when my partner was back from work.

If we come to Ireland we would have great family support. My partner loves Ireland and has a great relationship with my family. He thinks we'd be happier in our personal lives here, and that our relationship wouldn't be as strained as if we were on our own in France, but professionally it would be a huge opportunity for him to miss.

As it stands we can afford a small mortgage which would get us a new build semi detached in a decent sized town (we've found a house and had several viewings). However, my partner would be coming to no job and I'd be only working Sep and Oct before going on maternity leave. I'm afraid we'd never have financial security and that we'd be tight every month until he found a decent job.

If we go to the south of France for even three years we could save a lot of money and come here and buy a bigger family home and have less of a financial burden. However, I reckon the next three years will be very difficult on my own with two small (sick?) babies. I'm scared of not being able to do it without support. Yet, on the other hand, I don't want to impede my partner's great opportunity to set us up well for life.

Can anyone offer any wisdom? We've been debating for two months and keep changing our minds. Monday is the cut off for handing in his notice if he is taking the new job so we need to decide ASAP.

My OH wants me to decide as he says all that he wants is the best for us. I'd feel terrible for him to not take this job though. Please help!

P.S. His family in France are hours away and are no help.
P.P.S. Him staying and France and me coming to Ireland with babies isn't an option as he wouldn't consider being separated from Baby 1 as it is.

seachto7

Don’t come back to Ireland. Where would you live/work if you came back?
Have you thought about healthcare, motor insurance costs, where to get a place to live etc

Fol20

From a medical point of view, I’m sure France have some equally as good hospitals to take care your young one. If anything their healthcare is better than ours.

By then sounds of it, your social support would be much better in Ireland, while financial it may not be as consistent, it might be time for you to pick one or the other. You can’t always have your cake and eat so it’s time for you to decide. Depending on his career what are the odds of him getting a decent job in Ireland. If they are slim, it’s hard to turn down the good job since that’s what’s going to be paying the bills. When you go back to work. Will you have a decent paying job to take some of the slack?

a very cool kid

Come home.

You'll make it work. Don't issue it as an ultimatum. In 20 years when you're done and your little bundle is a grown up you'll be so proud of what you did.

You are lucky your OH seems like a winner, people like that always come out top (might not be 80k at home, in fact far less but you'll live)

Make sure that your babies learn French !

K.Flyer

As a parent of a child who has required acute medical attention, and also worn a well trodden path in hallways of Crumlin Hospital, having your family support nearby in these situations is invaluable.
Money is not everything, health is wealth.
If right now your child is receiving the medical care that it needs and your family support network is in place to help you get through it, then I think here is where you stay, For Now.
For a moment imagine having to relocate, get a new home set up, find the correct facilities for your children's medical needs, get medical files transferred etc, then deal with it all on your own.
Well I wouldn't expect it of my wife while I chased after some "dream job".
In my opinion children's health and welfare comes first, so your decision should be based on what's best for them, especially given medical care requirements.
Wishing you and your family best of health and happiness for the future.

wiggle16

Hi OP

I don't know how much use this will be but off the top of my head:

You have to weigh up the long term benefit of each move and the options each leaves you with. I think if you can find the same support in France for your baby, it would be worth him taking the job, even just for a couple of years.

Look at it this way:

You know exactly what the story will be if you come to Dublin.
You will have a support network in family and friends and you will be close to Our Lady's for your son's medical needs.
On the other hand you also know money will be tight and it sounds like once you move to Dublin you'll be tied here for the foreseeable, since the lower income limits your options.

If you move in France things are a little less certain.
You know you'll be economically better off. But you say don't know how you will cope without the support, and the security being close to the hospital brings. But you could also find that you cope just fine with it. You have done well so far.

For me, it would depend on how ill the baby is, obviously it goes without saying that he is your priority. If the care he needs is something any or most hospitals can provide, then there is no reason to be tied to Crumlin. If there's any risk that you won't get the same level of care in Frnace (i believe their health system is as chaotic as ours, maybe i'm wrong) then obviously you have to pick Dublin and Our Lady's (not to imply for a moment that you'd risk that, just saying it for completeness!).

Also, you have pretty much been coping by yourself already without a support network since your baby was born, so you know you can do it (and fair play to you btw).

Does it make sense for you to play the long game? ie:
If your husband takes the job in South France, could you find somewhere to rent close to a hospital that can provide for your baby's needs? Then you could save for a few years and decide what your next step is. The extra income will give you options - and if youre renting youre not tied to the situation. If things don't work out and you find it difficult to cope, you can pack it in and Ireland and your family will still be here.

I know i'm making it sound oh-so-simple and i know it isn't, but if another hospital can provide that care, you needn't be tied to Our Lady's. You will only know how you will cope if you try and you can always come back if you can't. If you come to Dublin you're stuck here.

If the above works for you i'd say let him take the job in France and give it a shot.

Either way I hope it works out for you whatever you do. I hope your baby's health improves and baby number 2 is born healthy too.
Very best of luck to all four of you, OP xxx

NinetyTwoTeam

While I wouldn't class it as an easy decision, there is little doubt in my mind that I would go to the South of France with the 80k job, and begin research on how to access the medical treatment your child or children require, which I'd say you have already, and begin building up support down there, find some mother's groups on Facebook etc.

Money doesn't solve all problems, but I would rather have financial security and a sick child, then be struggling financially on top of having a sick child. Your family support would be helpful, sure, but they can only do so much. And while I don't have any knowledge of it myself, I would imagine you can access medical care there at least equal to that here.

I would be doubtful that moving to Ireland would make the difference between your child becoming well and not. Meanwhile your partner might never get another opportunity like this, and this opportunity could make life significantly better for your family overall long term.

Children grow up fast. Is this disease something that tends to get better or worse as they grow up? That's a key factor. If the baby is likely to be better in 10 years wouldn't you rather be able to provide a great life for them? Raising 2 kids will not be cheap! And there's a roughly 60% chance you're next child won't have the disease at all, so fingers crossed on that one. If he/she is healthy that will be one less thing to worry about and as he/she gets older they can even keep on on the other one that has the disease.

If both have the disease it's going to be difficult either place. I'd rather have money coming in and a happy partner, and a bit of sun while dealing with that, then family support and an unemployed or underpaid unhappy partner with bills piling up and wind and rain most of the year.

Short term will be a bit scary and difficult but long term your family will be better off - your partner will be happy in his job, you won't have to worry much about money, and the kids will be set up for a better life. Numerous studies have concluded that children from financially secure families achieve success more consistently then children from poorer families, and that socioeconomic status is the number one predictor of success. And look how many young people have had to either emigrate or stay with their parents well into adulthood due to the disparity between available wages and high rents. With the next few generations being stuck paying for the bank bailouts I don't see things getting better for young people here any time soon.

If my parents decided to bring me into this world knowing I was going to possibly have to deal with a rare disease, I'd prefer they at least take the chance they had to ensure we wouldn't lack for money and get me the hell out of Ireland, where a young person from a family without money often is left with few options. Right now those options tend to be limited to emigration or moving to Dublin and get fleeced by high rents.

I don't know the nature of the illness, but having a happy working Dad, a household that isn't suffering from a lack of money, a sunny climate - I find it hard to believe that those things could be bad for any family's health overall, and that Ireland could offer a better situation. If that turns out to not be the case, Ireland and your family will still be here as a viable Plan B.

Best of luck.

theoldbreed

There is no doubt in my mind that I would go to the south of France. There are hospitals and consultants that are equally as good as what you'd find in Crumlin. Your situation is stressful and tough but financial worries will make it worse and I'm sure there will be hefty medical bills in the future.
It doesn't have to be permanent, you could find specialised help (someone qualified to care for sick children at home) there that would help immensely. Go there, save and then come home.
I lived in the south of France for years and it's a wonderful place to live. I really don't think you'd regret it.
If no then maybe your husband takes this job and you come home and you work it that way for a while. I think it would be sad for him to miss this opportunity.

suicide_circus

Crumlin or the south of France....hmmmm

I'd go with the south of France. The weather, lifestyle and food will all make a difficult situation more manageable. And if it dosnt work out, you can always come home.

snowbabe

suicide_circus wrote: »

Crumlin or the south of France....hmmmm

I'd go with the south of France. The weather, lifestyle and food will all make a difficult situation more manageable. And if it dosnt work out, you can always come home.

Yes , I'd go to France also and get a really good au/pair to give you help and also very regular family visits will ease thingsca bit for the few years . Three years goes by scarily fast with two young children

djan

I would without a doubt go for South France. End of the day while family support networks are important, they will not provide financial support. Health care in France is of a much higher standard than Ireland too.

If you do come to Ireland, you will will find it extremely hard to get accommodation as you will have to rent first and hope that in a year's time to you'll be ready to get a mortgage. Rent crisis is huge here, so that will add stress.

Worst case scenario your husband can leave the dream job and come back. It's worth taking the chance as it could have a huge impact on his career and your lifetime quality of life for the whole family.

Support networks can be created in France too, especially if you've lived there before and I assume, know the language.

Best of luck with the baby too!

SirChenjin

Lots of food for thought, OP, in previous replies.

Just to add my tuppence worth - I don't think it's fair for him to say 'you decide'.
There are pluses and minuses to each scenario, and I think it should be a joint decision.

Supposing that you say, ok we will move to Ireland, and he resents the fact, down the line, that he didn't take a shot at the dream job?

All the best.

seachto7

People posting that they’re sure healthcare in France is “equally as good as Ireland if not better.” I would have thought France would not be be better in general?
Some people seem to have this idea that Spain/France/Italy are only good for going on holidays but that’s it....

unknowngirl!!

Hello and thanks for all of the input. Just to clarify two important things...

Firstly, we have a lot of savings and can afford to buy a three bed with a mortgage of 170K meaning our repayments won't be huge. We had been fully planning on moving back to Ireland, until my OH did the interview for experience never imagining that he'd get it, and have a house viewed and are mortgage approved. I am on secondment in Paris from my Irish job which is permanent and fairly decently paid, I earn just under 50k. I'll get my full salary whilst on maternity leave.

Secondly, in theory the French health care system is fantastic but to be honest I'd take our care any day. We went to Hopital Necker, which is meant to be one of the best childrens' hospital, but the specialist made a huge error in our son's diagnosis and had we let her operate on him he would have been left with a colostomy bag for life at best and the worst doesn't bare thinking about. She estimated the diseased portion of one of his organs as 7cm and was only prepared to remove that amount, on the day of surgery he actually had 46cm removed. We went to GOSH for a third opinion as we couldn't decide between ireland and France for the surgery and we were unequivocally told to go with the surgeon in Crumlin as he has a specialist interest in the disease after doing a fellowship year in America in a center of excellence for the disease. If Baby 2 has the same disease there is no question of us going anywhere else.

I know the south of France sounds great but it isn't like I will be living the high life out enjoying the sun, sea and sand. I'll be most likely housebound on my own for at least 12 months all depending on the health of the babies. That said, if we can just get through the first year we'd probably have a much easier time after and be able to have a lovely life with the children. I speak French almost fluently and have been living there for a few years so it wouldn't be a big adjustment moving south.

There are just so many variables and uncertainties though. Baby 2's health would dictate a lot and if Baby 1 continues as well as he is the interventions will be weaned from July so life mightn't be difficult at all in France.

unknowngirl!!

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

If my parents decided to bring me into this world knowing I was going to possibly have to deal with a rare disease, I'd prefer they at least take the chance they had to ensure we wouldn't lack for money and get me the hell out of Ireland, where a young person from a family without money often is left with few options.

I hope I'm being overly sensitive and this wasn't meant as hurtful as I've interpreted it

We've both had genetic testing and neither of us carry a gene which caused my son's disease. It was completely chance and could have happened to any couple having a baby.

We didn't take the decision of having a second child lightly as we knew the risk of the disease would be heightened as there is an increased occurrence in fraternal siblings. However, it isn't a life limiting disease and if any couple were to have a baby with this rare disease we are the best candidates as we have learned so much and have all the training to preform the interventions done and perfected at this point!

My son has been analogised as a car having a perfect engine but a faulty part. We wouldn't bring another child into the world if we thought there was a chance they'd suffer and be unable to live a full life. We're not irresponsible...

woodchuck

Personally I think having access to the best healthcare for your child should be the deciding factor. It sounds like from your own personal experience, you have much more confidence in the Irish healthcare system. So I would think that moving back to Ireland is the obvious choice?

NinetyTwoTeam

unknowngirl!! wrote: »

I hope I'm being overly sensitive and this wasn't meant as hurtful as I've interpreted it

We've both had genetic testing and neither of us carry a gene which caused my son's disease. It was completely chance and could have happened to any couple having a baby.

We didn't take the decision of having a second child lightly as we knew the risk of the disease would be heightened as there is an increased occurrence in fraternal siblings. However, it isn't a life limiting disease and if any couple were to have a baby with this rare disease we are the best candidates as we have learned so much and have all the training to preform the interventions done and perfected at this point!

My son has been analogised as a car having a perfect engine but a faulty part. We wouldn't bring another child into the world if we thought there was a chance they'd suffer and be unable to live a full life. We're not irresponsible...

I certainly didn't mean to be hurtful and I apologise if that sounded a bit harsh. You sound like wonderful responsible parents indeed, and I'm sorry that you have had to deal with something like this taking you by complete surprise and despite having taken all possible steps to make yourselves aware of any genetic issues.

I admit I am speaking from my own experience as I inherited a genetic disease myself, but my parents didn't know about it either. There was no genetic testing back then, and neither of them had it nor their siblings, however one of my siblings and 2 of our cousins got it as well. I got the worst case of it but it is not as bad these days.

However for most of my adult life the issue has been chronic and lifelong and sometimes left me in agony, and has caused me to lose jobs and miss out on other parts of life. My father and 4 of my mother's siblings are also alcoholics which we now know, is also inherited, and while I am sober a long timebnow, I also inherited this awful gene.

Compounding the problem was my father walking out on us when I was 13. Neither of my parents finished secondary school and we lived in America. Money was tight before he left and after, it was extremely tough. my mother had to work two jobs and was rarely at home. I distinctly remember her crying over bills and rent that she couldn't pay, and having empty kitchen cupboards. We couldn't afford good medical care and despite being accepted to good colleges after getting top marks in high school, I couldn't afford to go. My mother returned to Ireland in 2000 and I came back in 2006. I attended college here, graduating at the height of the recession. Since then my employment has been spotty and I have spent long stretches on the dole as I live in the Norrhwest where jobs are incredibly scarce. I can't afford to move to Dublin, and even if I could, I wouldn't want to face the renting situation.

I'd be lying if I said that there weren't many times (when I was younger) that I wished I had not been born into a family who bestowed such difficulty upon me, and thought that while they couldn't control the disease, at least if they were well off financially things might have worked out better, and my life would have taken a different trajectory.

So that was where I was coming from, but it was a bit unfair to say, especially now that i have more info from your subsequent posts. Certainly it sounds like things will not be anywhere near as dire if you do choose Ireland. There are 2 of you, there's no issues with alcoholism, and you would be in a part of the country where there are more and better opportunities, and even without the 80k job, it sounds like you are not too worried about money being tight, which is great. The negative effects of financial insecurity on a family should not be underestimated, and my post was basically a warning about those dangers being present if you move to Ireland, and advising you to avoid them if you can.

I'm sorry if I inserted my experience into yours, as it isn't the same or perhaps even similar, and I am admittedly unhappy living in this country and regret moving back here every single day of my life despite having achieved my dream of a college degree here. But your children may not feel that way at all.

I still think, however, it might be useful if you try to imagine or predict what situation your children would prefer as they grow up and take that into consideration. And consider the same for your partner.

It's great that the disease won't be life limiting, but to me that just reinforces that France is a better option long term. A girl I am close friends with just moved to France last year, she was unemployed and miserable here, and she already got a job there, is much happier, loves it so much she said she would never move back here for anything.

But it sounds like you are worried about the short term difficulties most and are a bit scared of taking them on. I think the au pair suggestion is an excellent one, and just one example of how having a good salary coming in will make life easier.

Teyla Emmagan

Crumlin any day of the week. You have far too many uncertainties going on there. Being in France with a sick kid and a new baby and no support structure isn't worth it for some 'dream job'. Dream jobs come and go, why put a world of potential stress on yourself if you don't have to? This is completely the wrong time to take risks.

tea and coffee

Crumlin is my pick.
You say you'd planned to move back "home" this summer; i take it that meant Ireland? In which case, you guys must have had a job/ career plan for one or both of you before the "dream job" popped into the equation.
So run with that.
You have savings, good medical care anf family support.
Living alone, isolated from both families with 2 sick kids doesn't sound fun regardless of the weather.
I know the dream job sounds amazing but there are good employment opportunities here at the moment and clearly your husband is well qualified so should pick something up fairly quickly; was he looking here for work as it was given your plan to move here?

dellas1979

If the hospital in the South of France was equipped to deal with baby 1, I would go there.

I would go there, on the condition and agreement from your husband that:
- You are happy with the quality of care
- That baby 2 is ok (you dont know yet)
- That in general, you are happy.

Live in S. of France. Save money. Come back here as planned in a year or 2. Or sooner if you are unhappy per the above.

shesty

One thing is being somewhat overlooked in these replies.....you will have two kids.One child that you know is regularly unwell and one who may be unwell.And no support.The logistics of that would be a nightmare.Who is going to look after the other child in the event that either of them are ill and must spend time in hospital?I am the mum of three kids, and the first pair are 21 months apart.Total shock to the system, it's hard work, particularly that first year.If one or both of them had been ill, it would have been far more difficult.
If your medical care was going to be better in France, I would say see if you can make France work.But if the specialist is in Crumlin, and you are happy to remain here, I would seriously suggest staying here even just to remove the stress on your family life of juggling kids and hospital visits.Jobs come and go.
What I would suggest is that your husband considers explaining the situation to the company.If they want him badly enough they may be able to come up with an arrangement of some sort for him in the event of a child being unwell.People can surprise you sometimes.

Harika

You might want to check what support you can get in the south of France for your child, especially childcare. Like creche costs in Ireland are ridiculous high, compared to France where it is basically free. (Payed by higher taxes of your partner, I would pay those higher taxes immediately to get the same level of support as in France) And here I don't know how it would be with your unwell child.
Medical support is the same, you won't get worse treatment but France might have better medical equipment. In a recent visit where we had to visit the emergency department, we had a scan for the unborn in a public hospital and their scanner was the newest version, while the public hospital scanner in Ireland looks like an instrument of the stone age, and the one from the Irish private consultant looked one or two generations behind.
You might have long waiting lists in Ireland when waiting for specialists, if you don't have private insurance and pay extra cash.
My vote would defo go to the South of France, get the state support or an au pair.

beauf

Even without the health issues you would be wise for the hubby to rent at the new job for a while to see how it all works out. Then family follow later.

However often these jobs come up and the opportunity never comes again and you get you'll get caught in a loop of increasing costs and less income to pay for it all. The squeezed middle as they call it here.

But having a doc you trust might over weigh all that. You could rent here for a year and see how it all works out.

Emme

This is not an ideal solution but it might work short term. Hubby takes job in South of France. You go home to family for the first year of the new baby's life with the intention of joining your hubby the following year when he gets set up and hopefully you manage to sort things out with your children. He visits you every few weeks. If possible you visit him and leave the children in the care of your family so you can have quality time together. You suss out healthcare facilities in the South of France.

If there were no sick children involved I would choose France over Ireland with no hesitation. I think it would be a big mistake for your husband to pass up this job opportunity when he would more than likely never get such an opportunity in Ireland. However you are happier with Crumlin and family support is a great help. Consider that Crumlin hospital will be moving location in a few years.

So Ireland for you and France for him the first year, then France for you both.