Is Landlord liable for theft from common area

AllForIt

MOD: If this is more suited to Accommodation & Property then please go ahead and move it.

Last week my bike was stolen from the inside of the communal entrance to my apartment block. I heard strange noises and when I went to investigate it my bike was gone and nobody to be seen.

There was no visible damage to the front door and still works as it should. The door is an old one but has been retrofitted with a security system which comprises of a keypad on the outside and a magnetic lock on the inside.There are no bolts of any kind fitted, just a very strong magnet.

I believe the culprit used their body weight and shouldered the door open. I think with enough force the magnet system isn't strong enough to withstand any force.

I haven't got CCTV footage from the guards yet but if it turns out that I am correct as to how this happened is my Landlord culpable for the theft.

Caranica

Your bike was in a communal area, how was the landlord responsible? It's up to you to secure your bike.

AllForIt

If the front door can be simply shouldered open then it's hardly very secure is it?

The question is does the Landlord have a responsibility to provide a front door that is at least secure enough that it would require some apparatus to open it like a screwdriver or some sort of electric saw. I don't know the answer to this which is why I'm asking.

Samuel T. Cogley

AllForIt wrote: »

If the front door can be simply shouldered open then it's hardly very secure is it?

No and one wouldn't expect a bike to be left in the communal area. About the only person culpable in any scenario is you if someone fell over it.

AllForIt

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

No and one wouldn't expect a bike to be left in the communal area. About the only person culpable in any scenario is you if someone fell over it.

I don't think that has anything to do the legality of the question I asked.

Samuel T. Cogley

AllForIt wrote: »

I don't think that has anything to do the legality of the question I asked.

Reasonable foreseeability is one.

Samuel T. Cogley

AllForIt wrote: »

If the front door can be simply shouldered open then it's hardly very secure is it?

The question is does the Landlord have a responsibility to provide a front door that is at least secure enough that it would require some apparatus to open it like a screwdriver or some sort of electric saw. I don't know the answer to this which is why I'm asking.

No they don't. Most communal areas would only be secured with a maglock. In fact you specifically want to door in communal areas to be easily opened by force in case of fire.

AllForIt

So if a criminal opportunist simply shouldered in a communal front apartment block door, not to steal a bike they saw but to gain access to the flats, then managed to gain entry to a flat and stole goods or caused damage, the landlord wouldn't be culpable in any way at all?

Samuel T. Cogley

AllForIt wrote: »

So if a criminal opportunist simply shouldered in a communal front apartment block door, not to steal a bike they saw but to gain access to the flats, then managed to gain entry to a flat and stole goods or caused damage, the landlord wouldn't be culpable in any way at all?

No. About the only way he's be culpable is if he did an inspection and left the door (to the actual apartment) open.

AllForIt

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

No. About the only way he's be culpable is if he did an inspection and left the door (to the actual apartment) open.

Ok, thanks.

Samuel T. Cogley

AllForIt wrote: »

Ok, thanks.

Sucks your bike has been nicked. Hope the fcuker breaks his leg. Also I hope someone disagrees with me to give you a more complete answer. There's always two sides to arguments.

Glass fused light

The landlord not be liable for the theft, it's no different than if a person kicked open the lock and you are assuming that the entry was forced. Is it possible that an other person was leaving and the thief managed to get to the door before if relocked?

The landlord would have had a responsibility to remove any items left in the communal area if it serves as the fire exit, so I would check your lease to see if you are in breach.

AllForIt

Glass fused light wrote: »

The landlord not be liable for the theft, it's no different than if a person kicked open the lock and you are assuming that the entry was forced. Is it possible that an other person was leaving and the thief managed to get to the door before if relocked?

The landlord would have had a responsibility to remove any items left in the communal area if it serves as the fire exit, so I would check your lease to see if you are in breach.

The bike was left under the stairs it in no way impeded the exit no more than the tubs of paint do that the landlord left there.

Caranica

AllForIt wrote: »

The bike was left under the stairs it in no way impeded the exit no more than the tubs of paint do that the landlord left there.

Was it secured? Under the stairs is never going to be deemed secure in a common area

listermint

AllForIt wrote: »

The bike was left under the stairs it in no way impeded the exit no more than the tubs of paint do that the landlord left there.

Have you considered the fact you put your bike out there instigated the need to gain access.


This is your fault have a bit more sense with your possessions

Lantus

Landlord has no responsibility for a tenants private property whether it is outside, in a common area or inside the property. Your own private insurance covers this.

When you say common area do you mean an entrance that connects to multiple apartments? If yes then this is the management companies property, not the landlords.

Sassygirl1999

Landlords have enough to be worrying about than people's lack of wherewithal

AllForIt

I have to say I'm pretty disgusted with the tone of some of the comments to my OP. All that was required was to answer the substance of the question which I made very clear in the OP ,which was satisfactory answered by Samuel T.C.

To anyone once else who would like chirp in with another dig I say to you get a life and I won't be watching anyway so you'll to taking to wall.

/thread.

Glass fused light

AllForIt wrote: »

The bike was left under the stairs it in no way impeded the exit no more than the tubs of paint do that the landlord left there.

A common area that acts as fire route should be kept free and clear, and certainly not used to store combustible materials. If the building can be accessed by non-residents I would be requesting that the landlord removes the paint cans asap as they are a fire hazard.

AllForIt

So the guards caught the guy and charged him with breaking and entering. He didn't have the bike when he was caught so no joy there.

I was wondering if it's possible to find out how the court proceedings went. I did a google search but didn't find anything. It is possible to view court proceedings online?

NUTLEY BOY

AllForIt wrote: »

So the guards caught the guy and charged him with breaking and entering. He didn't have the bike when he was caught so no joy there.

I was wondering if it's possible to find out how the court proceedings went. I did a google search but didn't find anything. It is possible to view court proceedings online?

No - this will have been a District Court case.

Ask the Gardai if the case has been disposed of and, if so, what was the outcome. Find out if there was any order for restitution.

NUTLEY BOY

On the broader question originally posed.

Generally, a landlord would owe a duty of care to tenants. You have to ask what a reasonable landlord, on the facts, would do or refrain from doing. Doubtful if that would extend to preventing theft of property left in a common area.

I might take a different view if theft from common areas was a frequent event known to the landlord. In those circumstances I think that a landlord would have a reasonable duty to at least warn tenants of the problem.

BTW if the bike was insured the insurers might not pay up if it was not locked. They would probably regard the absence of a lock as failure to take reasonable care to avoid a loss. OP, if you are getting a new bike and insuring it, be careful to lock it securely or better still, if possible, keep it in your apartment.

4ensic15

o/P tell the guards you want to make a victim impact statement. Go to court and show them the corns on your feet, blisters etc.

looksee

OP, the bike could have been stolen by someone living in the apartments. You are responsible for your own property, that's what insurance is for.