Would there be a market for personalised plates in Ireland?

NIMAN

Bear with me on this, I know we have a car reg system in place that is fairly simple and which shows your car registration in order for a given year and county.

Personally I think its grand, but my son asked me the other day when we were discussing personalised plates in NI why we can't have them as well. Got me thinking, might be a nice little earner for the Gubbermint.

You'd have to keep the 1st two parts same, so you'd know that car was 2018, and from Dublin, but why couldn't the rest of it be open to personalisation?

eg
181 - D - NIMAN,
181 - D - Rovers
181 - D - MUFC
181 - D - GAA1

you get the idea. Could charge €500 per plate? I'm sure there would be loads of takers.

What ya think?

deletthis

Big business in the UK, for both the DVLA & the brokers who buy & sell the plates. If funds raised could be allocated for something like road safety initiatives/infrastructure improvement & repair I'd be all for it.

Does make you look a bit of a n*b, though...

Of course there would. There's always plenty of people with more money than class.

vandriver

Personalized plates in the north?

zilog_jones

NIMAN wrote: »

You'd have to keep the 1st two parts same, so you'd know that car was 2018, and from Dublin...

Why do we need these parts at all? Personalised plates could be a lot more personalised, like those in certain states in the US.

Maybe going off on a tangent: but I think we should get rid of the year completely, and stop this car ageism nonsense.

NIMAN

vandriver wrote: »

Personalized plates in the north?

Loads of them around.

deletthis

zilog_jones wrote: »

Maybe going off on a tangent: but I think we should get rid of the year completely, and stop this car ageism nonsense.

Not sure I'd agree, makes it a lot harder to pass cars off as younger than they are etc.

wexie

zilog_jones wrote: »

Why do we need these parts at all? Personalised plates could be a lot more personalised, like those in certain states in the US.

Maybe going off on a tangent: but I think we should get rid of the year completely, and stop this car ageism nonsense.

I certainly agree.

But I'd imagine SIMI would do everything they can to stop this from ever happening.

wexie

deletthis wrote: »

Not sure I'd agree, makes it a lot harder to pass cars off as younger than they are etc.

For people out and about or to a buyer?

Cause then all you need to know would be on the paperwork?

NIMAN

What does a car reg really do, and why is it on a car at all?

Surely its to identify it? Simple. So I suppose the year and county is irrelevant really.

So instead of having 181 - D - NIMAN, a car reg with just NIMAN on it and nothing else would still identify that car to Gardai, speed vans etc that its registered to me.

And the Gov could make the 2 options priced at €500 for the one with the year and county or €1000 for the latter, get more money off the rich n*bs !!

deletthis

wexie wrote: »

For people out and about or to a buyer?

Cause then all you need to know would be on the paperwork?

There will be plenty of people who don't know how/don't both/don't remember to check or are convinced by a convincing convincer I'd worry.

RE SIMI< agreed they have a vested interest to maintain the age snobbery - it sells cars.

loyatemu

Peronalised plates are stupid, I'm glad we don't have them here.

zilog_jones wrote: »

Why do we need these parts at all? Personalised plates could be a lot more personalised, like those in certain states in the US.

Maybe going off on a tangent: but I think we should get rid of the year completely, and stop this car ageism nonsense.

never mind getting rid of the year, we should get rid of the county code. The name of the county is on there anyway in Irish. If we had all 26x26 2 letter codes available we could standardise the format of the plate i.e. 191-GM-150.

That format would give 1.3m numbers per year with none of the nonsense of one car being 191-T-2 and another being 191-WW-12057

Doddles88

You can reserve the number you want on registrations in Ireland at the moment. For example, if I want a 181-D-2 i can reserve with revenue at a cost of 1000 euro. Charging that amount for 'personalisation' is crazy when all you can get are numbers which have to used anyway. I can only imagine what the government would charge per plate if you introduced letters too.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/vehicle-registration-tax/registration-plates.aspx

colm_mcm

Can you imagine how much admin inefficiency there is to reserve a number. They’re probably losing money at €1000

zilog_jones

NIMAN wrote: »

So instead of having 181 - D - NIMAN, a car reg with just NIMAN on it and nothing else would still identify that car to Gardai, speed vans etc that its registered to me.

Yeah, and having just five letters would be easier to remember too, e.g. reporting an incident to the guards. I could never remember an 8-10 character number plate (of mostly numbers) at a glance, like some of those that exist on the current system.

deletthis wrote: »

Not sure I'd agree, makes it a lot harder to pass cars off as younger than they are etc.

We managed fine before '87, the registration cert is always there, and nowadays it's easy to look up the reg online (which I'd be doing anyway checking for other dodgy stuff). Most of the world does not have a year identifier on their number plates.

loyatemu wrote: »

never mind getting rid of the year, we should get rid of the county code. The name of the county is on there anyway in Irish. If we had all 26x26 2 letter codes available we could standardise the format of the plate i.e. 191-GM-150.

Yes, a fixed length could be easier to remember too. I'm OK with the county codes though, but they don't necessarily have to match the names of the counties - they could use something like the pre-'87 system (e.g. TI = Limerick), though they could use multiple codes for each county to reduce numbers required.

Zubeneschamali

NIMAN wrote: »

What does a car reg really do, and why is it on a car at all?

Surely its to identify it? Simple. So I suppose the year and county is irrelevant really.

I like the Swiss system - when you register your first car YOU get a license plate number. You take it with you from car to car.

Del2005

zilog_jones wrote: »

Yeah, and having just five letters would be easier to remember too, e.g. reporting an incident to the guards. I could never remember an 8-10 character number plate (of mostly numbers) at a glance, like some of those that exist on the current system.


We managed fine before '87, the registration cert is always there, and nowadays it's easy to look up the reg online (which I'd be doing anyway checking for other dodgy stuff). Most of the world does not have a year identifier on their number plates.


Yes, a fixed length could be easier to remember too. I'm OK with the county codes though, but they don't necessarily have to match the names of the counties - they could use something like the pre-'87 system (e.g. TI = Limerick), though they could use multiple codes for each county to reduce numbers required.

Witnesses rarely remember the correct details so having an easy to remember registration number can't change people.

The age and county was on pre 87 registrations. It was just people in the trade who understood the system.

Personality I like our system. If you buy cars you can get great bargains, if you buy the bit of plastic or metal that identifies the vehicle then people who buy cars get great bargains.

Guy:Incognito

People always go on about the hoards that buy new cars just for the year on the plate, but from any searching I've done all indicators are that we buy new cars in roughly the same numbers, as a percentage, as other countries.

hi5

It was suggested a few years ago and baldy Noonan said he didn't like the idea. You don't want to be going and giving the people too much freedom and happiness or they might lose the run of themselves.

http://www.thejournal.ie/government-rules-out-allowing-personalised-registration-plates-327708-Jan2012/

Del2005

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

People always go on about the hoards that buy new cars just for the year on the plate, but from any searching I've done all indicators are that we buy new cars in roughly the same numbers, as a percentage, as other countries.

Yes but our system , and the UK, with age related plates have way cheaper 2nd hand cars. Pick a 5 year old car in Ireland and then find similar in France.

Samuel T. Cogley

Do you know how much some of those personalised plates cost?! Millions in some cases.

NIMAN

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Do you know how much some of those personalised plates cost?! Millions in some cases.

Most expensive one ever in UK was just over half a million:

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/the-uks-most-expensive-personalised-number-plates/

DaveyDave

I'd like to reserve a number, like 181-D-1974, being the year the Golf come out. But not for €1,000. Revenue get more than enough from us, especially on cars.

However, if it was similar to 181-D-DaveyDave, and a lower cost, I'd say it'd be a bit extra cash overall which isn't a bad thing.

Having said that I'm not a fan of the UK's system, but I don't like their plates anyway.

Kenny Logins

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Do you know how much some of those personalised plates cost?! Millions in some cases.

You don't have to pay for each plate. Just the number... :pac:

Roger_007

Some fella called Paddy Reilly from County Kerry could get a personalised plate such as:-

PR1 CK.

Kenny Logins

NIMAN wrote: »

Most expensive one ever in UK was just over half a million:

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/the-uks-most-expensive-personalised-number-plates/

I've seen 1H around Cork a few times (Bentley, now RR Wraith). I wonder how much that cost.

Wishbone Ash

Doddles88 wrote: »

You can reserve the number you want on registrations in Ireland at the moment. For example, if I want a 181-D-2 i can reserve with revenue at a cost of 1000 euro.....

You're not guaranteed it though - if two or more people reserve the same number I think they draw lots or something. (Losers would get their money back I presume).

Cee-Jay-Cee

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I like the Swiss system - when you register your first car YOU get a license plate number. You take it with you from car to car.

^^^^ This ^^^^

I think this is the most sensible option but I'd tweak it in that when you get your driving licence, you are allocated a registration number which goes on every car you will ever own. If you happen to own several cars then the registration number gets a 2,3,4...etc following the original number. Its simple, would be very easy to administer and prevents the stupid 'keeping up with the Jones' system we have at the moment where the year of the car is the most important thing to most people.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

Yes but our system , and the UK, with age related plates have way cheaper 2nd hand cars. Pick a 5 year old car in Ireland and then find similar in France.

But thats not because of the year in a plate, but because a fact that older cars in Ireland and Uk have no market for sale abroad. (Because they are rhd).

Older cars from Germany, France, etc gets sold to the Poland, Slovakia, Romania. Once they are not usable there anymore they end up in Ukraine, Belarus, etc.
That keeps price of second hand cars high.

In Ireland and UK 10-15 year old car usually ends up into theh scrapyard, so obviously it looses its value quicker from brand new.

CiniO

NIMAN wrote: »

Bear with me on this, I know we have a car reg system in place that is fairly simple and which shows your car registration in order for a given year and county.

Personally I think its grand, but my son asked me the other day when we were discussing personalised plates in NI why we can't have them as well. Got me thinking, might be a nice little earner for the Gubbermint.

You'd have to keep the 1st two parts same, so you'd know that car was 2018, and from Dublin, but why couldn't the rest of it be open to personalisation?

eg
181 - D - NIMAN,
181 - D - Rovers
181 - D - MUFC
181 - D - GAA1

you get the idea. Could charge €500 per plate? I'm sure there would be loads of takers.

What ya think?

System like you're proposing operates in Poland.

Normal plate consists of county/town mark and consecutive number f.e. KR-23456 would be from Krakow. There's no year o a plate.

And it's possible to obtain personalised plate with county mark and between 3 and 5 characters.

So f.e. I could get K0-CINIO or K0-ARSE or anything like that.


System is in place for last 18 years, but personalised plates never became popular.
Cost of 1000zl (around €230).
However you rarely see them. Mostly business users which put their company name on a plate.

grogi

NIMAN wrote: »

Personally I think its grand, but my son asked me the other day when we were discussing personalised plates in NI why we can't have them as well. Got me thinking, might be a nice little earner for the Gubbermint.

It is horrible.

The variation of length of the plates makes them very difficult to read:
- for automated recognition systems
- from CCTV footage

What's more, the car holds the county designation for its whole life, regardless where it is registered afterwards.

You'd have to keep the 1st two parts same, so you'd know that car was 2018, and from Dublin, but why couldn't the rest of it be open to personalisation?

Why would we keep them the same?

There would be very little room to distinguish between 182-MH-TOIS and 182-MH-T015.

We need a new, modern system in general.
- that will not use (at least) letters D, O, Q, S, Z, I for regular plates. They could potencially be allowed in customised plates, provided that no other registration with similar characters would ever be issued.
- that will not bind with the county of first registration
- that will have a fixed length of reg
- that will have a standardised font

NIMAN

.

NIMAN

All good points, I wasn't saying the 1st 2 parts MUST stay, but more if the GOV still wanted to attach a year and county to the car.

I was showing that if this happened, personalisation is still possible.

I think we need a new start.
In fact that would make a good plate

ANUSTART

loyatemu

the county designation is a throwback to when everything was done on paper so each county had to have it's own batch of numbers. There's no reason why they couldn't pull the numbers from a centralised database now.

zilog_jones

Del2005 wrote: »

The age and county was on pre 87 registrations. It was just people in the trade who understood the system.

Yes, the county was (I already mentioned that), but the year was not. They just went in series, and changed letters whenever they ran out of numbers which would happen independently of other counties. You could get a rough idea of how old a reg was without having to be in the trade, but I only knew local ones (e.g. nnnn TI to nnn FTI covered the late '70s up to '86 in Limerick city).

Now we have computer databases and all that (the old system was designed in 1903!), there would be no requirement to follow a specific sequence.

Gregor Samsa

NIMAN wrote: »

So instead of having 181 - D - NIMAN, a car reg with just NIMAN on it and nothing else would still identify that car to Gardai, speed vans etc that its registered to me.

The system is designed to make reg numbers easy to remember and recognise by people, not machines. Human brains aren't so good at remembering numbers with more than 7 digits in them. so with the YYY-CC-XXXXX format, our brains can break down the number into digestible chunks. We can remember the year as a year instead of a number. We can remember the county code as a county instead of a number. That just leaves the final sequential digits, which doesn't go over 6 digits.

If we just needed it to be computer readable, a QR code would make more sense than printing numbers on a metal or plastic sheet.

If we just had the sequential digits, or a random code, we'd end up with numbers that were very difficult to remember. In the case of accidents, incidents and crimes, it would be very difficult for witnesses to accurately remember the reg number. As it stands, even a partial recollection of the number plate ("It was a 2010 red Kerry reg Ford") is more useful than a number that's more easy to get confused about. ("it was a red Ford. The first number was 6, and then either 35 or 53. I didn't catch the rest.")


(Aside: This is also why the main part of phone numbers tends to be 7 digits or less. We remember the prefix (01, 087, 061, etc) as a seperate part to the actual number because there's a pattern to them that we're usually familiar with, thus allowing us to remember a 10 digit mobile number, broken into prefix and number, easier than a random 10 digit number.)

NIMAN

phutyle wrote: »

The system is designed to make reg numbers easy to remember and recognise by people, not machines. Human brains aren't so good at remembering numbers with more than 7 digits in them. so with the YYY-CC-XXXXX format, our brains can break down the number into digestible chunks. We can remember the year as a year instead of a number. We can remember the county code as a county instead of a number. That just leaves the final sequential digits, which doesn't go over 6 digits.

If we just needed it to be computer readable, a QR code would make more sense than printing numbers on a metal or plastic sheet.

If we just had the sequential digits, or a random code, we'd end up with numbers that were very difficult to remember. In the case of accidents, incidents and crimes, it would be very difficult for witnesses to accurately remember the reg number. As it stands, even a partial recollection of the number plate ("It was a 2010 red Kerry reg Ford") is more useful than a number that's more easy to get confused about. ("it was a red Ford. The first number was 6, and then either 35 or 53. I didn't catch the rest.")


(Aside: This is also why the main part of phone numbers tends to be 7 digits or less. We remember the prefix (01, 087, 061, etc) as a seperate part to the actual number because there's a pattern to them that we're usually familiar with, thus allowing us to remember a 10 digit mobile number, broken into prefix and number, easier than a random 10 digit number.)

"Officer, the guy who knocked me off my bike had NIMAN on his plate"

Thats easy to remember too.


Disclaimer : I have never used my car to knock anyone off their bike.

Gregor Samsa

NIMAN wrote: »

"Officer, the guy who knocked me off my bike has NIMAN on his plate"

Thats easy to remember too.

It is for you, because it's your user name. But it means nothing to random people, so is no easier to remember than MINAN or NAMIN, and easily confused with them. Plus not everyone is going to have a reg plate with dictionary words in them (the MAN part).

Take my one, PHUTYLE. Easy for me to remember, because I've been using it for years. But I've had plenty of people have the word right in front of them and say "what does PUTTLE mean?". I don't want to get blamed for all the bikers PUTTLE mows down!

CiniO

phutyle wrote: »

The system is designed to make reg numbers easy to remember and recognise by people, not machines. Human brains aren't so good at remembering numbers with more than 7 digits in them. so with the YYY-CC-XXXXX format, our brains can break down the number into digestible chunks. We can remember the year as a year instead of a number. We can remember the county code as a county instead of a number. That just leaves the final sequential digits, which doesn't go over 6 digits.

If we just needed it to be computer readable, a QR code would make more sense than printing numbers on a metal or plastic sheet.

If we just had the sequential digits, or a random code, we'd end up with numbers that were very difficult to remember. In the case of accidents, incidents and crimes, it would be very difficult for witnesses to accurately remember the reg number. As it stands, even a partial recollection of the number plate ("It was a 2010 red Kerry reg Ford") is more useful than a number that's more easy to get confused about. ("it was a red Ford. The first number was 6, and then either 35 or 53. I didn't catch the rest.")


(Aside: This is also why the main part of phone numbers tends to be 7 digits or less. We remember the prefix (01, 087, 061, etc) as a seperate part to the actual number because there's a pattern to them that we're usually familiar with, thus allowing us to remember a 10 digit mobile number, broken into prefix and number, easier than a random 10 digit number.)

While what you're saying makes sense, IMO it doesn't work here with number plates...

Firstly before even we can talk about remembering someone reg number after hit and run, person needs to read it.
And it's difficult to read XXX-AA-XXXX which makes 10 characters to read.
It would be much easier to read number plate with say 5 or 6 characters than one with 9 or 10.

Secondly, people focus so much on first part, that they never really remember the rest.
F.e. so many times I read in the news that they are searching for black BMW 05-LD or red Ford 141-D. That's not enought to identify in most cases.

Indeed - it's easy to remember year and country as people are used to it.
But long number plates with many characters just don't work, as people don't remember anything else than year and county.

Have a look that much bigger countries with 10x or 20x more vehicles than we have (like UK, Germany, France, Poland) mostly have number plates with up 7 characters occasionally 8.

In Ireland, which is a small country, I have a 9 character plate. Pointless.