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Thru road into cul de sac

  • 30-05-2018 5:20am
    #1
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    We live on a road that splits around a small green then continues on to the rest of the estate.

    I discussed with the neighbours the possibility of closing one end to turn the road into a cul de sac.

    All thought it would be a great idea but none of us know how to go about it.

    Ring the council in the first instance? There's no management company.

    Cheers.


Comments

  • #2
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,998 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Yup, the council. I wouldn't just ring them up one day, though.

    If there's a residents association for the area, the suggestion would probably have more weight coming from them. So think about working through them. Also, consider talking to the councillors elected for the district in which the road is located. Think about business that might be affected one way or the other by the change, and also about things like good access for fire brigade and ambulances. Ask yourself if there is anyone who might be expected to oppose the change, and think if there is anything you can do to get them onside. If the traffic currently using the road as a thoroughfare can no longer do that, where will it go? And who will be affected by that?


  • #3
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    If you turn it into a cul de sac, there will have to be a new turning area added for bin lorries, for engines etc.

    Its not as simple as throwing up a few bollards


  • #4
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,998 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    If you turn it into a cul de sac, there will have to be a new turning area added for bin lorries, for engines etc.

    Its not as simple as throwing up a few bollards
    If the road "splits around a small green", as describe in the OP, and you simply close off one exit from the green, the small green will serve as a turning circle. So the engineering problem may not be that great, in this case.


  • #5
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    If the road "splits around a small green", as describe in the OP, and you simply close off one exit from the green, the small green will serve as a turning circle. So the engineering problem may not be that great, in this case.

    Are you suggesting driving onto the green?
    That wouldn't be acceptable.

    It all depends on the length of the cul de sac created, and the number of dwellings served by it.


    I have designed thru roads through greens before specifically to avoid having to put in large turning areas.


  • #6
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,998 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Are you suggesting driving onto the green?
    That wouldn't be acceptable.
    No. I'm suggesting driving all the way around the green, back to the point at which you came in, and leaving by that route.

    Currently, the road "splits around the green". I take that to mean that the road divides when it reaches the green, with (say) eastbound traffic travelling on side of the green, and westbound traffic on the other. At the far side of the green the two sides of the road meet up again, and continue on as normal.

    Right. You want to turn the road into a cul-de-sac. So you close off the exit at the far side of the green, and turn the road around the green into a one-way system, like a roundabout with just one entrance. Traffic approaching the green turns left when it reaches the green, travels all the way around the green in a clockwise direction, and leaves along the road by which it entered.

    If the road around the green is wide enough, it doesn't even have to be a one-way system. Have a two-way road all around the green, with the entrance being treated as a T-junction.


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  • #7
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Are you suggesting driving onto the green?
    That wouldn't be acceptable.

    It all depends on the length of the cul de sac created, and the number of dwellings served by it.


    I have designed thru roads through greens before specifically to avoid having to put in large turning areas.

    The road goes around the green with large enough corner radius' for the bin trucks/delivery trucks etc.

    It's best described as a triangle with the road in and out of our area on the hypotenuse side.


  • #8
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    No. I'm suggesting driving all the way around the green, back to the point at which you came in, and leaving by that route.

    Currently, the road "splits around the green". I take that to mean that the road divides when it reaches the green, with (say) eastbound traffic travelling on side of the green, and westbound traffic on the other. At the far side of the green the two sides of the road meet up again, and continue on as normal.

    Right. You want to turn the road into a cul-de-sac. So you close off the exit at the far side of the green, and turn the road around the green into a one-way system, like a roundabout with just one entrance. Traffic approaching the green turns left when it reaches the green, travels all the way around the green in a clockwise direction, and leaves along the road by which it entered.

    If the road around the green is wide enough, it doesn't even have to be a one-way system. Have a two-way road all around the green, with the entrance being treated as a T-junction.

    It's two way around the green


  • #9
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    I can't see any objections from residents living on adjacent roads as it's no shorter to other roads through our road


  • #10
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,998 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Peatys wrote: »
    I can't see any objections from residents living on adjacent roads as it's no shorter to other roads through our road
    Might they be exposed to extra traffic, though?

    Or, to put it another way, why do you think it would be good idea to close off your own road?


  • #11
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Peatys wrote: »
    I can't see any objections from residents living on adjacent roads as it's no shorter to other roads through our road

    If your willing to pm me an address ie numbers 55-65 boards.ie avenue etc.... I'll take a quick look and see if I can find any potential issues.


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  • #12
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    No. I'm suggesting driving all the way around the green, back to the point at which you came in, and leaving by that route.

    Currently, the road "splits around the green". I take that to mean that the road divides when it reaches the green, with (say) eastbound traffic travelling on side of the green, and westbound traffic on the other. At the far side of the green the two sides of the road meet up again, and continue on as normal.

    Right. You want to turn the road into a cul-de-sac. So you close off the exit at the far side of the green, and turn the road around the green into a one-way system, like a roundabout with just one entrance. Traffic approaching the green turns left when it reaches the green, travels all the way around the green in a clockwise direction, and leaves along the road by which it entered.

    If the road around the green is wide enough, it doesn't even have to be a one-way system. Have a two-way road all around the green, with the entrance being treated as a T-junction.

    Driving around the green is not "creating a cul de sac"..... It's actually pretty much the opposite.


  • #13
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,998 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Driving around the green is not "creating a cul de sac"..... It's actually pretty much the opposite.
    If there's only on road into and out of the green, then that road is a cul-de-sac, surely? As in, it has an entrance at only one end, and the only way out is by the way you go in.


  • #14
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    If there's only on road into and out of the green, then that road is a cul-de-sac, surely? As in, it has an entrance at only one end, and the only way out is by the way you go in.

    Not necessarily, it could be a loop road.

    A cul de sac is general a single carriageway leading to a dead end.


  • #15
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,998 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Well, I won't quibble about the terminology. I think what I'm describing is what the OP is looking for.


  • #16
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Well, I won't quibble about the terminology. I think what I'm describing is what the OP is looking for.

    Well what I think you're describing is what the op currently has ie being able to drive around the green


  • #17
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,998 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Well what I think you're describing is what the op currently has ie being able to drive around the green
    Yes. What he wants is for people not to be able to drive half-way round the green, and then out the other side, as they can at present.


  • #18
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Yes. What he wants is for people not to be able to drive half-way round the green, and then out the other side, as they can at present.

    so how does that description tally with your suggestion here:
    I'm suggesting driving all the way around the green

    ????????

    youre suggesting he does exactly what he doesnt want to do?


  • #19
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    so how does that description tally with your suggestion here:



    ????????

    youre suggesting he does exactly what he doesnt want to do?
    I want to keep the green as the turn a bout, but close of one of the entrances to the road.
    I'll get onto the residents association and see if neighbouring roads have an issue. And go from there

    Thanks both for your input. Very much appreciate your time.


  • #20
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Peatys wrote: »
    I want to keep the green as the turn a bout, but close of one of the entrances to the road.
    I'll get onto the residents association and see if neighbouring roads have an issue. And go from there

    Thanks both for your input. Very much appreciate your time.

    just take on board that if you create a cul de sac, where a bin lorry or fire engine etc has to turn in, then youll need a turning bays.

    http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,2451,en.pdf

    see page 8 in this document.

    Its not acceptable to expect a bin lorry etc to have to reverse all the way back up to a road having driven down it.


  • #21
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,998 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    so how does that description tally with your suggestion here:



    ????????

    youre suggesting he does exactly what he doesnt want to do?
    No, I'm not. He doesn't want people to drive half-way round to an exit on the far side of the green, in order to go out that exit. He's quite happy for them to drive half-way round to get to a house on the far side of the green. Or for them to drive all the way round the green, in order to leave via the road by which the entered in the first place.

    Basically, he's trying to eliminate through traffic, driving up to the green on one side, and driving away from it on the other.
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    just take on board that if you create a cul de sac, where a bin lorry or fire engine etc has to turn in, then youll need a turning bays.
    If bin lorries and fire engines can drive all the way around the green, back to the point at which they entered, there is no need for a turning bay.


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  • #22
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    No, I'm not. He doesn't want people to drive half-way round to an exit on the far side of the green, in order to go out that exit. He's quite happy for them to drive half-way round to get to a house on the far side of the green. Or for them to drive all the way round the green, in order to leave via the road by which the entered in the first place.

    Basically, he's trying to eliminate through traffic, driving up to the green on one side, and driving away from it on the other.


    If bin lorries and fire engines can drive all the way around the green, back to the point at which they entered, there is no need for a turning bay.

    and again...

    THAT is not a cul de sac :)


  • #23
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,998 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    and again...

    THAT is not a cul de sac :)
    And again, I'm not getting hung up on terminology. It's what the OP wants. He calls it a cul-de-sac. He may be technically incorrect to call it that; I'll take your word for it that he is. But so what? It won't be required to have a turning bay just because someone mistakenly thinks of it as a cul-de-sac.


  • #24
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,172 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    well if the OP was just to pm one of us a screen grab of the scheme, then this confusion wouldnt exist.

    im going purely by how the OP describes the scheme in post #7
    It's best described as a triangle with the road in and out of our area on the hypotenuse side.

    I read that as a single entry road into a loop around a green area... note the term "road" and not "roads"

    no matter where this loop is closed off, lets say by means of bollards, then at least one cul de sac will be created.


  • #25
    ForstalDave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭ForstalDave


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    well if the OP was just to pm one of us a screen grab of the scheme, then this confusion wouldnt exist.

    im going purely by how the OP describes the scheme in post #7



    I read that as a single entry road into a loop around a green area... note the term "road" and not "roads"

    no matter where this loop is closed off, lets say by means of bollards, then at least one cul de sac will be created.

    it's a double entry road which spilts around a green, he wants to close one entrance so its a single entry road but still goes around the green


  • #26
    TheChizler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,514 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    OP is it something like this you're after?

    452044.jpg


  • #27
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    TheChizler wrote: »
    OP is it something like this you're after?

    452044.jpg

    Yes :)
    Im sorry i used cul de sac.


  • #28
    Dudda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Dudda


    Ya but you've a cul de sac at the bottom of the image. How is a bin truck able to turn on that side? It's fine above the bollards where it can go around the green.


  • #29
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,547 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    Dudda wrote: »
    Ya but you've a cul de sac at the bottom of the image. How is a bin truck able to turn on that side? It's fine above the bollards where it can go around the green.
    Stop it you!

    Lads ye are just going around in circles.......:P


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