DVB>IP

Johnboy1951

I have an interest in Sat>IP live TV distribution throughout the home, so that any device with suitable software can select & view live TV channels at any time.
For this I have a Sat>IP gateway device whose tuners are managed by a backend device running tvheadend which also manages recordings and EPG.

I have not found an equally 'clean' means of integrating DVB-T/2 tuners into the system (a DVB-T>IP device using Sat>IP protocol).

Today I accessed this PDF of the Kathrein Sat>IP gateway device.

http://netthandel.tantec.no/filer/Kathrein_SAT_IP%20system.pdf

I would ask for some help interpreting a drawing in that PDF .... this one



https://ibb.co/g7GvDJ

I am particularly interested in the fact that an aerial is shown as an input, with the output going to the Kathrein device for distribution on the LAN.
This implies to me that the Kathrein will equally deal with the DVB-T signals as with the DVB-S signals, and convert them both to IP.

I would like to hear from anyone who might have some real information about devices such as the Kathrein and Digibit R1 (seem to be the same device in different packaging).

Has anyone tried or succeeded in doing what seems (to me) to be implied in that drawing?

Thanks.

Apogee

Looking through the specs of the multiswitch, it appears to take quattro inputs and terrestrial input and converts that to a diplexed unicable/terrestrial output.

AFACIS It does not convert the DVB-T signal. I'd imagine the EXIP 414 is simply taking the unicable input and converting it to SAT-IP, while "ignoring" the diplexed DVB-T signal.

You might look here:
https://www.digital-devices.eu/shop/en/network-tv/network-tuner-construction-kit/

Johnboy1951

Apogee wrote: »

Looking through the specs of the multiswitch, it appears to take quattro inputs and terrestrial input and converts that to a diplexed unicable/terrestrial output.

AFACIS It does not convert the DVB-T signal. I'd imagine the EXIP 414 is simply taking the unicable input and converting it to SAT-IP, while "ignoring" the diplexed DVB-T signal.

You might look here:
https://www.digital-devices.eu/shop/en/network-tv/network-tuner-construction-kit/

I did not see anything now or previously at that web site that addresses this question.

If the Kathrein does not convert the DVB-T signal, then how are client devices supposed to view the DVB-T content that is being sent to it?

BTW, I would not be surprised that it does not convert the DVB-T signal ..... but why put it in the drawing in the Kathrein manual?

It is rather confusing
I guess the other devices in that pic could use the DVB-T signal as well as the DVB-S with suitable splitters.

BUT ....... the pic above it on the same page also shows an aerial feed into a multiswitch and the output going to the '414' and straight out to IP only.

Maybe I was not supposed to notice


EDIT: My search goes on for a device similar to the above, but with DVB-T/2 tuners.
Anything I have found are professional in nature and not intended for home use.

kaisersose77

If you are using tvheadend then a hdhomerun will do what you are looking for as they show up just like satip devices in tvheadend. They have new models though now which are expensive for what they are so better to look out for the older model on ebay etc.

Johnboy1951

kaisersose77 wrote: »

If you are using tvheadend then a hdhomerun will do what you are looking for as they show up just like satip devices in tvheadend. They have new models though now which are expensive for what they are so better to look out for the older model on ebay etc.

Thanks ..... I was aware of hdhomerun but thought it was a dual tuner only, but now I see there is a quad tuner model!
How did I miss that?

Yes it is costly for what it is, but I guess there is no competition so no price pressure.

I note also that there are complaints about it being 'too hot to touch' if left on and used a lot.

Maybe two dual tuner models would be better ...... yes costly again ...... but there is a distinct lack of alternatives.

Do you have one of these connected to tvheadend (what I would intend)?
Any experiences you can share?

Thanks.

kaisersose77

I have the older dual tuner model. Fine for saorview at the moment with channels spread over 2 transponders. I plugged it in and set it up with tvheadend nearly 2 years ago and never had to worry about it since. Just works. This model doesnt get hot as I just checked it now and only time its off is if there is a powercut.

I havent updated tvheadend in a long time (Build: 4.1-2403~gdf352fd~xenial (2017-01-02T01:35:15+00:00)) but i would take it that it would work fine with newer versions.

Apogee

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I did not see anything now or previously at that web site that addresses this question.

Is this not DVB-T to SAT-IP?
https://www.digital-devices.eu/shop/en/network-tv/network-tuner/309/dd-octopus-net-v2-c2t2i/2-uk-version-sat-ip-networktuner?c=163

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

If the Kathrein does not convert the DVB-T signal, then how are client devices supposed to view the DVB-T content that is being sent to it?

It's potentially being sent to a diplexer (not shown) and the separate DVB-T and unicable outputs are fed to a combo box.

Johnboy1951

Johnboy1951 wrote:

I did not see anything now or previously at that web site that addresses this question.

Apogee wrote: »

Is this not DVB-T to SAT-IP?
https://www.digital-devices.eu/shop/en/network-tv/network-tuner/309/dd-octopus-net-v2-c2t2i/2-uk-version-sat-ip-networktuner?c=163

Yes, but we were at cross purposes ..... I meant the question which you answered below

I had seen that device previously, but honestly thought it too expensive .... I have no need of another switch so even that is not a benefit to me.

Apogee wrote:

It's potentially being sent to a diplexer (not shown) and the separate DVB-T and unicable outputs are fed to a combo box.

Yes, that does seem likely.
Oh well I thought there might have been something I had previously missed.

Thanks.

Johnboy1951

kaisersose77 wrote: »

I have the older dual tuner model. Fine for saorview at the moment with channels spread over 2 transponders. I plugged it in and set it up with tvheadend nearly 2 years ago and never had to worry about it since. Just works. This model doesnt get hot as I just checked it now and only time its off is if there is a powercut.

I havent updated tvheadend in a long time (Build: 4.1-2403~gdf352fd~xenial (2017-01-02T01:35:15+00:00)) but i would take it that it would work fine with newer versions.

Just to confirm ...... this does make the full mux available and not just a selected channel?
In which case it would be possible for say, 10 client devices to watch 10 different Saorview channels?

I am only trying to find if there are limitations I should be aware of.

Thanks for your feedback and info.

By the sound of it two 'Connect' boxes should do all I want ...... or one Quatro which might have a tendency to overheat.

PabloAndRoy

In theory you can do this with the digibit r1 with minisat. Look here: https://github.com/perexg/satip-axe/tree/master/dist


... you can even boot it from a usb to test if it will work with your cards ... it should be easy to drop in the firmware

I have been meaning to try this .. but never got around to it ..

Johnboy1951

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

In theory you can do this with the digibit r1 with minisat. Look here: https://github.com/perexg/satip-axe/tree/master/dist


... you can even boot it from a usb to test if it will work with your cards ... it should be easy to drop in the firmware

I have been meaning to try this .. but never got around to it ..

I am unsure what that plan is TBH.
If satip-axe is run on the Digbit R1, what cards are you referring to?

Would the idea be to run minisatip to take over from the R1's existing Sat>IP software, and provide the capability of using some DVB-T Dongles connected to the R1 via USB?

Is there some means of checking if the Sat>IP server in the R1 has DVB-T capability or not (just DVB-S)?

I guess I am not really getting this ...... probably above my pay grade

PabloAndRoy

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I am unsure what that plan is TBH.
If satip-axe is run on the Digbit R1, what cards are you referring to?
Would the idea be to run minisatip to take over from the R1's existing Sat>IP software, and provide the capability of using some DVB-T Dongles connected to the R1 via USB?

Thats how its done,

Is there some means of checking if the Sat>IP server in the R1 has DVB-T capability or not (just DVB-S)?

You could try sticking in the dongles.. but it is unlikely that the embedded system would pick them up as the firmware for the cards is almost certainly not in the embedded firmware. If you can ssh into the box (I can't remember if you can) you could then drop the DVB-T dongle firmware in there, but I am guessing that the embedded linux won't support DVB over usb.

This is why you would install minisatip.

I guess I am not really getting this ...... probably above my pay grade

Johnboy1951

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Thats how its done,

You could try sticking in the dongles.. but it is unlikely that the embedded system would pick them up as the firmware for the cards is almost certainly in the embedded firmware. If you can ssh into the box (I can't remember if you can) you could then drop the DVB-T dongle firmware in there, but I am guessing that the embedded linux won't support DVB over usb.

This is why you would install minisatip.

Thanks

Surprisingly I did get the right idea

EDIT: Tried plugging in a dongle to the R1 but the browser set up page showed no signs of it.
Got no connection when I tried ssh.

kaisersose77

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Just to confirm ...... this does make the full mux available and not just a selected channel?
In which case it would be possible for say, 10 client devices to watch 10 different Saorview channels?

I am only trying to find if there are limitations I should be aware of.

Thanks for your feedback and info.

By the sound of it two 'Connect' boxes should do all I want ...... or one Quatro which might have a tendency to overheat.

Not watching tv/playing with tvheadend much these days but tried a few simultaneous recordings as per attached screenshot and it works fine. Clients should be no different.

Johnboy1951

kaisersose77 wrote: »

Not watching tv/playing with tvheadend much these days but tried a few simultaneous recordings as per attached screenshot and it works fine. Clients should be no different.

Thank you for that confirmation ..... appreciated

PabloAndRoy

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

In theory you can do this with the digibit r1 with minisat. Look here: https://github.com/perexg/satip-axe/tree/master/dist


... you can even boot it from a usb to test if it will work with your cards ... it should be easy to drop in the firmware

I have been meaning to try this .. but never got around to it ..

I tried this tonight and while i did get the box to boot satip-axe and hooked it into tvheadend in seconds. I couldn't get it to recognise USB DVB-T dongles. In fact it wouldn't boot with USB dongles plugged in. I had a look around the filesystem and couldn't find any USB firmwares. I don't think it natively supports what we want to do, so I booted it back to the native Telestar firmware. minisatip looks interesting and I will certainly have a look into it a bit more when I get back from my holidays in a couple of weeks.

As an aside, for the holidays I bring a Amlogic LibreELEC box and hook into my home tvheadend system from Portugal over the local wifi. Works a treat, just like home.

Johnboy1951

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

I tried this tonight and while i did get the box to boot satip-axe and hooked it into tvheadend in seconds. I couldn't get it to recognise USB DVB-T dongles. In fact it wouldn't boot with USB dongles plugged in. I had a look around the filesystem and couldn't find any USB firmwares. I don't think it natively supports what we want to do, so I booted it back to the native Telestar firmware. minisatip looks interesting and I will certainly have a look into it a bit more when I get back from my holidays in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for reporting back about your test.

As an aside, for the holidays I bring a Amlogic LibreELEC box and hook into my home tvheadend system from Portugal over the local wifi. Works a treat, just like home.

Nice one!

What protocol are you using to stream? HTSP?

In any case it must be a pretty good connection speed to get good results.

There is no way my low ADSL connection has the upload speed to give me such benefits.
Roll on fibre!

PabloAndRoy

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Thanks for reporting back about your test.



Nice one!

What protocol are you using to stream? HTSP?

In any case it must be a pretty good connection speed to get good results.

There is no way my low ADSL connection has the upload speed to give me such benefits.
Roll on fibre!

yes htsp ... I have a 30mbps up link. In total 3 families run off our single home tvheadend system. You can get SD over public internet with 5mbps.

KeRbDoG

Checking in on this if anyone found a solution for DVB-T/T2 over a SAT>IP setup? I've tried a Pi running minisatip, and while it works kinda, it's not stable.

The "DD Octopus NET V2 Max M4 - Limited Edition (Without CI)" seems like something that can replace my satip-axe box though
https://www.digital-devices.eu/shop/en/network-tv/network-tuner/347/dd-octopus-net-v2-max-m4-limited-edition-without-ci-sat-ip-network-tuner?number=291054LE

Why you might ask I would look for something when TVH on a server with a DVB-T tuner would do such a job? I want to move that server to a location which has no access to a DVB-T antenna

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

yes htsp ... I have a 30mbps up link. In total 3 families run off our single home tvheadend system. You can get SD over public internet with 5mbps.

I'd be interested to see your stream settings for remote watching, I just currently use my setup for local viewing so no compression used.

Johnboy1951

Checking in on this if anyone found a solution for DVB-T/T2 over a SAT>IP setup?

Not sure at this time what problem you are seeking a solution for.

I use Tvheadend server running in CoreELEC on a $30 Android box, with HDHomerun DVB-T/2 tuners and Digibit Telestar R1 DVB-S/2 tuners.

Why you might ask I would look for something when TVH on a server with a DVB-T tuner would do such a job? I want to move that server to a location which has no access to a DVB-T antenna

I presently have the SAT>IP tuners in one location - where the coax is terminated - and the Tvheadend server in a different location.
The client devices are in different locations also.

All connect to each other on the LAN so it does not matter in how close proximity they are to each other.

Valhallapt

KeRbDoG wrote: »

Checking in on this if anyone found a solution for DVB-T/T2 over a SAT>IP setup? I've tried a Pi running minisatip, and while it works kinda, it's not stable.

I upcycled a couple of zgemma boxes. Installed minisatip and both DVB T & S appear in Tvheadend out of the box. I impressed with it, been rock solid.

KeRbDoG

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Not sure at this time what problem you are seeking a solution for.

I use Tvheadend server running in CoreELEC on a Android box, with HDHomerun DVB-T/2 tuners and Digibit Telestar R1 DVB-S/2 tuners.

I presently have the SAT>IP tuners in one location - where the coax is terminated - and the Tvheadend server in a different location.
The client devices are in different locations also.

All connect to each other on the LAN so it does not matter in how close proximity they are to each other.

Sorry, meant I will be moving the TVH server to a remote location. My antennas/sats terminate to a location which the SAT>IT & tuners live.

Are the HDHomerun DVB-T tuners stable? Any issues with multiple streams off the same mux via TVH?

Johnboy1951

KeRbDoG wrote: »

Sorry, meant I will be moving the TVH server to a remote location. My antennas/sats terminate to a location which the SAT>IT & tuners live.

Are the HDHomerun DVB-T tuners stable? Any issues with multiple streams off the same mux via TVH?

I have had no problems with the HDHomerun tuners at all.

As an example I started 4 channels on my PC all from the same mux using the one tuner



Two tuners covers the two muxes and I have not hit any limitation as yet .... but I expect that the limitation would be 100Mb/s connection to the LAN.

KeRbDoG

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I have had no problems with the HDHomerun tuners at all.

As an example I started 4 channels on my PC all from the same mux using the one tuner



Two tuners covers the two muxes and I have not hit any limitation as yet .... but I expect that the limitation would be 100Mb/s connection to the LAN.

Super, thanks for checking/confirming. I canceled that German device order and ordered up a HDHomerun. Didn't want to replace the R1 as it's solid

Johnboy1951

KeRbDoG wrote: »

Super, thanks for checking/confirming. I canceled that German device order and ordered up a HDHomerun. Didn't want to replace the R1 as it's solid

I have the quad tuner HDHomerun device and not the two tuner one, but I expect that will make no difference to operations.

One other item ...... my LAN is wired.

KeRbDoG

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I have the quad tuner HDHomerun device and not the two tuner one, but I expect that will make no difference to operations.

One other item ...... my LAN is wired.

Yup, I've ordered the quad also. All my TVs/STBs are wired LAN so it should be grand

Johnboy1951

You can allocate different tuners in the Quad to different servers if you have that need ....... might be useful if you have only two muxes (Saorview) that would provide two 'spare' tuners.
I used one for HDMI>DVB-T output.

KeRbDoG

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You can allocate different tuners in the Quad to different servers if you have that need ....... might be useful if you have only two muxes (Saorview) that would provide two 'spare' tuners.
I used one for HDMI>DVB-T output.

Good idea, I have a similar setup (HDMI modulator, security DVR) so will do something like that...unless I find a way of getting NI DVB-T

KeRbDoG

Update - those HDHomeRun devices are really good - very plug and play an popped right up on my TVHeadend server.
Find it strange they haven't made a DVB-S/2 version, seems like they did look into it but I guess their main markets are north America which might not have a whole load of quality FTA on satellite

Johnboy1951

KeRbDoG wrote: »

Update - those HDHomeRun devices are really good - very plug and play an popped right up on my TVHeadend server.
Find it strange they haven't made a DVB-S/2 version, seems like they did look into it but I guess their main markets are north America which might not have a whole load of quality FTA on satellite

For some reason it seems they reckoned they could not sell sufficient quantities to warrant going into production.
Maybe their costs for this were too high to compete, or they did not see a sufficient market ..... who knows?

It seems doubtful now they will compete with the likes of the Digibit R1 and its companions.

Glad your Homerun worked out well for you