What happens when I provide father's details to registrar?

sgmallen

I've read some online summaries of the Civil Registration (Amendment) Act 2014 and am wondering if anyone can help advise what will happen if my baby's father declines to have his name added to our son's birth cert.

I want his name on there - I think it's important- and we were due to register our son's birth yesterday. His father got angry when I asked which surname should be used and asked about double barrelling our surnames. Now he's refusing to attend to register the birth at all. I'll give his details to the registrar as required but what happens if he refuses?

Eric Cartman

If the lad doesn't want to be on the birth cert then leave him off. You're just going to cause hurt for yourself in future trying to get passports and other documents for the kids that the father also won't sign. He clearly doesn't want to be involved.

Del2005

If you are not married having the fathers name on the birth cert means nothing, he gets no rights so why should he bother.

He's still responsible for his child regardless.

sgmallen

Del2005 wrote: »

If you are not married having the fathers name on the birth cert means nothing, he gets no rights so why should he bother.

He's still responsible for his child regardless.

I'm thinking of my son not having a blank space there when he looks at it

Del2005

sgmallen wrote: »

I'm thinking of my son not having a blank space there when he looks at it

I can't remember ever looking at my birth certificate. I got a copy for my passport but just stuck it in with the application.

If the Father is around then your Son will know his Father, if the Father isn't around will a name on a piece of paper make any difference?

daheff

sgmallen wrote: »

His father got angry when I asked which surname should be used and asked about double barrelling our surnames. Now he's refusing to attend to register the birth at all.

Why is he acting like this?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

splinter65

sgmallen wrote: »

I'm thinking of my son not having a blank space there when he looks at it

He cannot be named as the father on the birth cert against his will if your not married to him. You’ll have to try and sort this out with him yourself.

sgmallen

I know I can't do it without his consent- I was wondering if anyone knew what happens if the registrar tries to contact him and he doesn't reply? From what I've read it seems I'm obliged to provide his details and he has 28 days to respond to the registrar.

sgmallen

daheff wrote: »

Why is he acting like this?

He had assumed his surname would be put down and because I questioned that has decided to opt out of the whole process

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Gravelly

sgmallen wrote: »

I'm thinking of my son not having a blank space there when he looks at it

Why would that make a difference if he's going to grow up without the father around? Unless you are going to tell him the father died, he's going to know he wasn't there anyway.

Gravelly

sgmallen wrote: »

He had assumed his surname would be put down and because I questioned that has decided to opt out of the whole process

Sounds like he is a little mixed up about what the responsibilities of fatherhood entail.

splinter65

sgmallen wrote: »

I know I can't do it without his consent- I was wondering if anyone knew what happens if the registrar tries to contact him and he doesn't reply? From what I've read it seems I'm obliged to provide his details and he has 28 days to respond to the registrar.

I don’t know where you read that, that’s not what happens at all. You are under no obligation to name any man as father of your child, and the registrar won’t accept any efforts in your behalf to name anyone, never mind contact that man for you.
I understand you don’t want the space to be blank, but you might just as well name my husband or George Clooney as the father to the registrar, you have to understand that ?

sgmallen

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The registrar won't be contacting him as his details will not be recorded.

I had thought from this that it was necessary but I could be wrong: http://www.treoir.ie/information/registration-of-births-information/

sgmallen

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If the lad doesn't want to be on the birth cert then leave him off. You're just going to cause hurt for yourself in future trying to get passports and other documents for the kids that the father also won't sign. He clearly doesn't want to be involved.

He actually intends to be involved and has been so far - just got cross over the surname issue. The reason I raised it with him was passports and documents etc. It was the example I gave

sgmallen

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t know where you read that, that’s not what happens at all. You are under no obligation to name any man as father of your child, and the registrar won’t accept any efforts in your behalf to name anyone, never mind contact that man for you.
I understand you don’t want the space to be blank, but you might just as well name my husband or George Clooney as the father to the registrar, you have to understand that ?

I could have got it wrong alright but I've read it in a few places- the Treoir website (link in post above) and here:
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/compulsory-birth-registration-of-unmarried-fathers-names-1578884-Jul2014/

splinter65

sgmallen wrote: »

I had thought from this that it was necessary but I could be wrong: http://www.treoir.ie/information/registration-of-births-information/

But you haven’t got a Court order?

sgmallen

splinter65 wrote: »

But you haven’t got a Court order?

Was looking at this section but I could easily have it wrong:

Following the commencement of this new legislation, if a mother attends without the father to register her child’s birth the Registrar will register the birth without a surname for the child and without the father’s details. The mother will be asked for contact details of the father and the Registrar will then make ‘all reasonable efforts’ to contact the father and invite him to attend the Registrar’s Office within 28 days in order to complete the registration. Only in exceptional cases, where ‘compelling reasons’ are provided, will the father’s name be omitted.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

sgmallen

Fred Swanson wrote: »

And what if the father is genuinely unknown?

That's one of the 'compelling reasons' for the name to be omitted, from what I've read: the father is unknown, can't be located, or is considered a potential danger

sgmallen

OmegaGene wrote: »

just leave it blank, mine is blank because my father wasnt there with id at the time and i survived
if the father is being a prick then treat him like a prick
being a father should be the proudest moment of his life

I think there was an amendment to the act in 2014 which means it's compulsory except in certain cases but that's very much my lay-person's understanding!

Thanks for sharing your own story. For some reason I liked looking at my birth cert as a child! But I think I must be in the minority there

sgmallen

OmegaGene wrote: »

My son was born September 2014 and the form at the hospital said if the father doesn’t have valid Id with him he won’t be added to the birth cert and that’s it

That's useful to know, thank you.

Edited to say I think the amendment to the act came into effect on 4th December 2014. I'll update here after he's registered just in case it's helpful to anyone in the future.

daheff

sgmallen wrote: »

He had assumed his surname would be put down and because I questioned that has decided to opt out of the whole process

would ya not put his surname down then?

is it not better for the child to have his surname and a father on the birthcert than your surname and no father on the birthcert?

If the child wants to change it when they are older they can.


TBH -it sounds like both of you are a bit childish on this.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Victor

daheff wrote: »

TBH -it sounds like both of you are a bit childish on this.

Childbirth and parentage can be an emotional time.

splinter65

Victor wrote: »

Childbirth and parentage can be an emotional time.

Most men unless their total losers want their child to have their name.

sgmallen

daheff wrote: »

would ya not put his surname down then?

is it not better for the child to have his surname and a father on the birthcert than your surname and no father on the birthcert?

If the child wants to change it when they are older they can.


TBH -it sounds like both of you are a bit childish on this.

Yes, I agree! I want to put his surname down- I'd much rather that than no father's details. But, because I asked about putting mine (for practical reasons) he wants no part of it at all. I'd never have raised it if I thought this would happen.

All I wanted was a discussion about practicalities which I think is a reasonable request. I'm more than happy for his surname to be used - just wanted to agree things like passports/travel etc.

daheff

sgmallen wrote: »

Yes, I agree! I want to put his surname down- I'd much rather that than no father's details. But, because I asked about putting mine (for practical reasons) he wants no part of it at all. I'd never have raised it if I thought this would happen.

So you want to put his name down, but asked about putting yours down. Seems like you are sending serious mixed messages.

Either that or there is a lot more to this that you haven't told us.

sgmallen

daheff wrote: »

So you want to put his name down, but asked about putting yours down. Seems like you are sending serious mixed messages.

Either that or there is a lot more to this that you haven't told us.

I brought it up by asking about double barrelling- think I mentioned that above somewhere - and the example I gave was ease of travel etc. He reacted badly so I'm more than happy to go with his name if it avoids hassle and no father's details recorded at all. I don't think there were any mixed messages and no back story. I think it's okay to want to discuss these things

splinter65

sgmallen wrote: »

I brought it up by asking about double barrelling- think I mentioned that above somewhere - and the example I gave was ease of travel etc. He reacted badly so I'm more than happy to go with his name if it avoids hassle and no father's details recorded at all. I don't think there were any mixed messages and no back story. I think it's okay to want to discuss these things

I fully understand what your trying to do, it’s unfortunate that he’s making this so difficult for you.
Do you have any mutual friends who could act as an intermediary who could approach him and explain that although you’d like your child to have both surnames on the birth certificate that your happy for just his to go on as long as the child’s paternity is acknowledged ?

sgmallen

splinter65 wrote: »

I fully understand what your trying to do, it’s unfortunate that he’s making this so difficult for you.
Do you have any mutual friends who could act as an intermediary who could approach him and explain that although you’d like your child to have both surnames on the birth certificate that your happy for just his to go on as long as the child’s paternity is acknowledged ?

Thanks, Splinter65 - that's exactly it! For my son's sake I'd like paternity to be acknowledged and that had been the plan until I raised the surname issue. No mutual friends but that's a good suggestion. His brother is very level headed but don't know if I could broach it....

daheff

sgmallen wrote: »

I brought it up by asking about double barrelling- think I mentioned that above somewhere - and the example I gave was ease of travel etc. He reacted badly so I'm more than happy to go with his name if it avoids hassle and no father's details recorded at all. I don't think there were any mixed messages and no back story. I think it's okay to want to discuss these things

Yes its ok to talk about these things.

But his reaction is not a normal reaction- which leads me to believe there is more to this. Are you both together still? Does he want anything to do with the child?

splinter65

sgmallen wrote: »

Thanks, Splinter65 - that's exactly it! For my son's sake I'd like paternity to be acknowledged and that had been the plan until I raised the surname issue. No mutual friends but that's a good suggestion. His brother is very level headed but don't know if I could broach it....

It’s worth a try. Poor you and poor baby. Difficult days ahead.

snoopy84

So did I. In fact I still read it word for word when i need to pull it out now.

snoopy84

daheff wrote:

would ya not put his surname down then?

If he is going to be so childish about something that I think is very sensible why should she bow to him. I wish I had thought of travel when I registered my sons birth. When we travel I have to bring his birth certificate as we have different names, trivial I know but still a nuisance

Minister

I know a lady whose now 14 year old daughter goes by her dads name for all official documents (e.g. Passport), double barrelled on formal school documents and is known by her mums surname in her everyday life and to her friends.

splinter65

snoopy84 wrote: »

If he is going to be so childish about something that I think is very sensible why should she bow to him. I wish I had thought of travel when I registered my sons birth. When we travel I have to bring his birth certificate as we have different names, trivial I know but still a nuisance

You can’t put a mans name down on a child’s birth cert without his express permission. Sure that would be ludicrous.

snoopy84

splinter65 wrote:

You can’t put a mans name down on a child’s birth cert without his express permission. Sure that would be ludicrous.

I mean why should she give in and give child his surname when he can't even have an adult conversation about it. I understand that might mean leaving fathers name blank but the cheek of him. Surely there must be a way to add him to birth cert without him being there. I thought they did away with that because women were having several children but "didn't know who Father was" so had to leave blank then claim lone parent

splinter65

snoopy84 wrote: »

I mean why should she give in and give child his surname when he can't even have an adult conversation about it. I understand that might mean leaving fathers name blank but the cheek of him. Surely there must be a way to add him to birth cert without him being there. I thought they did away with that because women were having several children but "didn't know who Father was" so had to leave blank then claim lone parent

Think about it for a minute. Can I go to the registrars office and put Donald Trump down as the father on the birth cert?
Anywhere in the world, forever, if your married to a man then he is the father of the child ( even though he may not be, if he isn’t, and you want the biological father to be named, then you have to take legal action to arrange that).
If you are not married then the father has to give his consent to be put on the birth cert. Because you simply cannot just randomly name a man as the father, that would be very unfair to both the man and the child.
Lone parent payment never had anything to do with fathers names on birth Certs either .

snoopy84

splinter65 wrote:

Think about it for a minute. Can I go to the registrars office and put Donald Trump down as the father on the birth cert? Anywhere in the world, forever, if your married to a man then he is the father of the child ( even though he may not be, if he isn’t, and you want the biological father to be named, then you have to take legal action to arrange that). If you are not married then the father has to give his consent to be put on the birth cert. Because you simply cannot just randomly name a man as the father, that would be very unfair to both the man and the child. Lone parent payment never had anything to do with fathers names on birth Certs either .

I never said that you could stroll into the register office and pick any random man to name as the father what I meant was that due to the Civil Registration (Amendment) Act 2014 it's not as easy as it was to leave blank. Regarding the Lone parent comment I was referring to the many "couples" with several kids who would leave the fathers name blank so they wouldn't be harassed for maintenance and continue with their plush "lone" parent lifestyle in peace. Unfortunately knew of far too many of these back in the day

heldel00

Minister wrote: »

I know a lady whose now 14 year old daughter goes by her dads name for all official documents (e.g. Passport), double barrelled on formal school documents and is known by her mums surname in her everyday life and to her friends.

This x1000! It causes chaos in schools. Grand in a small school where we can all tell each other and remind each other for the 8 years of primary school that so&so has one official name and then one everyday name! Madness.
I've had a mother coming thundering into me because i called her child the official name instead of the everyday name! Can you see the confusion I'm talking about?

And also a parent who gets married and wants child known by the new name from the following Monday! Just not that easy I'm afraid.

We have one child who started in infants with a double-barreled name, parent requested in first class that one name be dropped for everyday use and then mam remarried and husband adopted the daughter so she is now on her third name and is in 5th class!
We're a small country school. Don't know how the big schools manage. They probably don't entertain such requests.

sgmallen

Just wanted to update this thread for all of you who were good enough to reply to me.

It took some time and a lot of effort but we eventually managed to agree on double barrelling our son's surname. More importantly, his dad agreed to attend and sign the registration form with his details as the father. I was happy to just go with his name once he'd be listed as the father - I honestly didn't care - but we managed to agree on using both.

I had spoken with the registrars office a few weeks ago, after talking to Citizens Information. In theory, when a single mother shows up to register a birth without the child's father, the amendment to the act does mean the father's details should be taken (Not listed on birth cert of course, just noted) and he should be invited to attend but in practice this doesn't often happen.

Under His Eye

Probably noted and passed to Social protection re maintenance.