#hometovote. Strengthening or undermining democracy?

SafeSurfer

Many of the people traveling home to vote in this referendum, while still on the register should be ineligible to vote because they have lived abroad for years.
It’s an attractive hashtag and full of emotion but is it a manifestation of democracy or making a mockery of Irish laws?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

If an Irish citizen abroad is willing to pay hundreds of euro or more to come back to exercise their right to vote, let them!

Better than the lad who lives 500 yards from his Polling Station who can't be arsed.

retro:electro

Why shouldn’t they be allowed? Maybe they moved abroad to work but plan on returning in a few years to start a family. Should they have no say in how their maternal health will be handled? Maybe they have relatives here who are affected by the 8th?
Maybe they see what an archaic piece of rubbish the 8th is and want to see it ran out of town?

VainHard Bendix

What if you haven't lived abroad all that long?
What's the cut off point. Three months, six months?

SafeSurfer

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

If an Irish citizen abroad is willing to pay hundreds of euro or more to come back to exercise their right to vote, let them!

Better than the lad who lives 500 yards from his Polling Station who can't be arsed.

Even if they do so illegally?

The #hometovote hashtag has lots of people offering to pay for flights or give money to people who wish to come home to vote. But only if they intend to vote in a particular way.

Canard

I think it's BS that they wouldn't have the right. Many of those who live abroad still have strong ties to the country and, as said above, may even have plans to return in the future. If you've grown up here and seen the harmful effects of the 8th, you should have every right to have a say in the debate on whether or not to scrap it.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

BoJack Horseman

Voting is open to people living in Ireland.

You vote in the constituency you live in..... Which is in Ireland

Anything else is electoral fraud.

ligerdub

I agree there should be a degree of taxation = representation, or something to that affect. It's very hard to systemise though. Not everyone who leaves the country will leave it permanently, and they may well still have a stake in what the vote is about. They most likely will also have contributed to the economy or paid taxes at some point.

That said there's a large part of me that thinks "they left, their loss, no vote for them".

Personally I find the movement and hashtag massively patronising and narcissistic. It's like they feel they need to come back to Ireland to show us how to do things in thick old Paddyland, and imparting their wisdom they've derived from the magicland that is........modern day London!

_Dara_

I’m fine with eligible voters abroad being encouraged to come back to vote. Ineligible people who still happen to be on the register? I don’t support that. It made me uneasy in 2015 and it still does now.

_Dara_

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Voting is open to people living in Ireland.

You vote in the constituency you live in..... Which is in Ireland

Anything else is electoral fraud.

Not if they are still ordinarily resident in Ireland. They fulfill the eligibility requirement.

Tom Mann Centuria

ligerdub wrote: »

Personally I find the movement and hashtag massively patronising and narcissistic. It's like they feel they need to come back to Ireland to show us how to do things in thick old Paddyland, and imparting their wisdom they've derived from the magicland that is........modern day London!

Agree with you on that. Or, using the dreadful term, it's virtue signalling.

pitifulgod

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Agree with you on that. Or, using the dreadful term, it's virtue signalling.

For many it's people who view the issue as important to them and they will eventually return to Ireland where they and their children will be impacted by the constitution.

VainHard Bendix

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

The sixth trimester.

Tom Mann Centuria

pitifulgod wrote: »

For many it's people who view the issue as important to them and they will eventually return to Ireland where they and their children will be impacted by the constitution.

I didn't say they weren't right to come back and vote if it's important to them. Fair play to them. I'm sure there's hundreds who do it without looking for retweets and likes on Twitter and Facebook.

Strazdas

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Even if they do so illegally?

The #hometovote hashtag has lots of people offering to pay for flights or give money to people who wish to come home to vote. But only if they intend to vote in a particular way.

'Illegal' might be too strong a word. At most their vote is invalid.....they are not committing a criminal offence by turning up and being ineligible to vote.

riffmongous

It does highlight a few things that need to be looked at; having a proper updated electoral register and voting rights of those abroad

smokingman

Well they wouldn't be spending all that money if they weren't eligible now would they...

I have a feeling the aul iona crowd are going to try to pull everyones name on twitter and try and cross reference it with the register they got with everyones name and address on it because well, they're kinda bitter like that.

Yer Da sells Avon

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Agree with you on that. Or, using the dreadful term, it's virtue signalling.

It's not 'virtue signalling' (and yes, it is a dreadful term). People (whichever side they're on) are coming home to vote because they genuinely care about repealing (or retaining) the 8th Amendment. As happened during the marriage equality referendum, the Yes side has run a very positive and colourful campaign and has been far better at galvanising the support of young Irish people living abroad.

Arghus

Surely it's the exact opposite of undermining democracy.

_Dara_

riffmongous wrote: »

It does highlight a few things that need to be looked at; having a proper updated electoral register and voting rights of those abroad

True. I didn’t register where I live in Dublin because I’m on the voting register in my home county where I haven’t voted since 2011. Why am I even still on that register?

Hitman3000

The LoveBothDrogheda page on Twitter had a call out for volunteers to act as security at polling stations to check ID of voters. Now that's illegal.

riffmongous

_Dara_ wrote: »

True. I didn’t register where I live in Dublin because I’m on the voting register in my home county where I haven’t voted since 2011. Why am I even still on that register?

I havent been in the country since 2011 and they still send me stuff, wanted me to do jury duty a few weeks ago

Overheal

If you’re an Irish Citizen then surely the answer should be apparent.

If you’re going to revoke their ability to vote - especially at the national level - aren’t you establishing a 2nd class of citizen?

riffmongous

Was just watching a video* on the topic on the Indo website, I should have gotten someone to sponsor me for a free flight home

*also reminds me how cute Irish girls can be

tom_k

_Dara_ wrote: »

True. I didn’t register where I live in Dublin because I’m on the voting register in my home county where I haven’t voted since 2011. Why am I even still on that register?

You mustn't have the busybodies that make submissions when the register is being compiled that we have around here. Years ago I was removed from the register when I went to Australia for a year, had to re-register when I returned.

In 2008, I received a letter telling me I was being removed from the register but had the option to challenge this decision which I did by writing a letter stating my address and offering supporting documentation. I retained my voting rights. I was told in a roundabout way that certain local people are consulted when compiling the register and obviously some of these don't know their ass from their elbow.

Nowadays I have such electoral paranoia that I check the register if I have to leave the parish for more than a few hours in case someone saw me in the car and decided i wasn't coming back (I jest ).

Charmeleon

Overheal wrote: »

If you’re an Irish Citizen then surely the answer should be apparent.

If you’re going to revoke their ability to vote - especially at the national level - aren’t you establishing a 2nd class of citizen?

Not really, it’s undemocratic for people who have and will continue to live abroad to vote in laws and political parties which only affect or represnt people who do live here. Particularly if the diaspora numbers approach matching or outnumbering the electorate in the state.

_Dara_

If I was an eligible abroad voter, I don’t know if I’d be comfortable with the welcome parties and cheering. It’s a bit tone deaf. I’m a yes voter all the way but this such a grave, complex issue.

_Dara_

tom_k wrote: »

You mustn't have the busybodies that make submissions when the register is being compiled that we have around here. Years ago I was removed from the register when I went to Australia for a year, had to re-register when I returned.

In 2008, I received a letter telling me I was being removed from the register but had the option to challenge this decision which I did by writing a letter stating my address and offering supporting documentation. I retained my voting rights. I was told in a roundabout way that certain local people are consulted when compiling the register and obviously some of these don't know their ass from their elbow.

Nowadays I have such electoral paranoia that I check the register if I have to leave the parish for more than a few hours in case someone saw me in the car and decided i wasn't coming back (I jest ).

My father is deeply involved in politics and unfortunately that makes a big difference. I have a connection. Stuff like that matters even though it shouldn’t.

riffmongous

Charmeleon wrote: »

Not really, it’s undemocratic for people who have and will continue to live abroad to vote in laws and political parties which only affect or represnt people who do live here. Particularly if the diaspora numbers approach matching or outnumbering the electorate in the state.

Yeah but then you need to go all Minority Report to know if people are coming back or not, especially for referendums which are only run every few decades. I think a much longer cutoff point would be better, somewhere between 5-10 years

id share the concerns raised here to an extent

but if you are very worried about this but had turned a blind eye to eg shedloads of yanks being flown over here and sent out to preach and lecture to irish people on this issue, then....well

end of the road

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Many of the people traveling home to vote in this referendum, while still on the register should be ineligible to vote because they have lived abroad for years.
It’s an attractive hashtag and full of emotion but is it a manifestation of democracy or making a mockery of Irish laws?

undermining democracy. they don't live here, so should have no say. the fact they may return some time is not a given and as a country we have a duty to have laws that work for the citizinary who actually live here. we need to tighten up the checks in relation to the register at least. also maybe a certain amount of time you have to actually be back living in the country before you can vote (a year to 2 years should suffice IMO) .

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I think people coming home to vote against a law that would directly impact on their healthcare if and when they come home have just as much right to vote as people no longer of childbearing age. Whatcha gonna do?

_Dara_

end of the road wrote: »

undermining democracy. they don't live here, so should have no say. the fact they may return some time is not a given and as a country we have a duty to have laws that work for the citizinary who actually live here. we need to tighten up the checks in relation to the register at least. also maybe a certain amount of time you have to actually be back living in the country before you can vote (a year to 2 years should suffice IMO) .

Some people who don’t live here are eligible to vote!

Cleopatra_

I've been living abroad for five months and I've come home to vote. I'll be moving back in a few years but regardless of how long I've been gone I'd come back to vote on such an important matter. For me it's a matter of principle, I now live in a country where abortion is legal and I want the same for Ireland. As far as I'm concerned I should be allowed to vote as long as I have an Irish passport.

_Dara_

Cleopatra_ wrote: »

I've been living abroad for five months and I've come home to vote. I'll be moving back in a few years but regardless of how long I've been gone I'd come back to vote on such an important matter. For me it's a matter of principle, I now live in a country where abortion is legal and I want the same for Ireland. As far as I'm concerned I should be allowed to vote as long as I have an Irish passport.

Nah. Some people who will never return to Ireland have Irish passports. That’s not a good criterion.

Ken.

Mod-Locked till 10pm tonight.