New bike - >4000euro

terrydel

Right, I want to get the lightest ultegra di2 (rim or disc doesnt matter) endurance type road bike in that price bracket.
Finding weight info is a pain at the best of times, so thought I'd ask here. Whats the lightest endurance type road bike frame around at that price? Trek Emonda?

Borderfox

I thought the Madone was the Trek endurance model with the iso coupler on the front and rear tubes.

cython

Borderfox wrote: »

I thought the Madone was the Trek endurance model with the iso coupler on the front and rear tubes.

No, the Madone is the aero. Domane is the endurance, with the Emonda being the lightweight climbing model. I think the Emonda is actually the one range without the IsoSpeed feature, as it probably adds weight!

terrydel

cython wrote: »

No, the Madone is the aero. Domane is the endurance, with the Emonda being the lightweight climbing model. I think the Emonda is actually the one range without the IsoSpeed feature, as it probably adds weight!

I'm renting an emonda at the etape this year so will find out, I believe that trek have two geometry options, h1 & h2, with h2 being the less severe.

magicbastarder

cython wrote: »

No, the Madone is the aero. Domane is the endurance, with the Emonda being the lightweight climbing model. I think the Emonda is actually the one range without the IsoSpeed feature, as it probably adds weight!

it was only a couple of months ago that i realised they were all anagrams.

terrydel

magicbastarder wrote: »

it was only a couple of months ago that i realised they were all anagrams.

Ha, same here, I wonder how many other options they can come up with from those letters!

magicbastarder

for the dutch riders, onedam? (works on two levels, too!)

Fian

https://www.rosebikes.com/rose-x-lite-cdx-ultegra-di2-2661619

7.3kg, disc brakes, di2, endurance frame - €3,899.

terrydel

Fian wrote: »

https://www.rosebikes.com/rose-x-lite-cdx-ultegra-di2-2661619

7.3kg, disc brakes, di2, endurance frame - €3,899.

Are Canyon lighter?

magicbastarder

why is lightness the ultimate deciding factor? you seem to be asking specifically about the lightest bike available, rather than the best light bike?

terrydel

magicbastarder wrote: »

why is lightness the ultimate deciding factor? you seem to be asking specifically about the lightest bike available, rather than the best light bike?

Its not, but I'd like to know.
Best is subjective.
As you brought it up, what is the best?

Andy Magic

Cervelo R5 is pretty light I believe.. This guy took it to the next level

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fimo3ZRg8A

magicbastarder

heh, i've never bought a bike near that price bracket. but i was watching the GCN show on titanium bikes last night, and checking out the price of enigma bikes. you could get a 7.5KG enigma Ti, for your price - but you wouldn't get Di2.

Lumen

terrydel wrote: »

Ha, same here, I wonder how many other options they can come up with from those letters!

720, I think.

magicbastarder

it's a pity armstrong ruined the relationship between trek and greg lemond, would have been great to have a trek lemonda.
though it reads a little like lemonade.

terrydel

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's a pity armstrong ruined the relationship between trek and greg lemond, would have been great to have a trek lemonda.
though it reads a little like lemonade.

Who doesn't like lemonade?!

brownian

As someone else noted, there's more to life than weight. I realise that's the question being asked...but comfort is more likely to matter to riders of endurance machines than a few grams here or there. ridefar.info (https://ridefar.info/bike/cycling-speed/weight/) has some pretty illuminating things to say about weight and performance, from the perspective of the hard core endurance rider.

Were I have to have 4k to spend, personally, I'd look at a Columbus Genius frame from ciclicorsa.com, get it painted whatever colours I wanted, built up with Ultegra Di2, and put some handbuilt wheels with tubeless tyres on it (I really like the AL33 rims, say from wheeltec). For endurance, I'd add the ergon split seatpost, and the redshift suspension stem..and a brooks or Gilles Berthoud saddle (tho this last will spoil the coolness factor somewhat).

endacl

magicbastarder wrote: »

why is lightness the ultimate deciding factor? you seem to be asking specifically about the lightest bike available, rather than the best light bike?

At that point, the easiest way of shaving weight would be to shave.

Lumen

brownian wrote: »

Were I have to have 4k to spend, personally, I'd look at a Columbus Genius frame from ciclicorsa.com

I like metal, but I honestly don't believe that the best metal frames ride as well as the best carbon ones.

I don't have any evidence of this, other than my experience with expensive titanium, which looks lovely but rides worse than even mid-range carbon.

It's hard to get objective opinions because people who buy metal frames in the 21st century tend to love them unconditionally.

More than €4,000?

Get yourself a Parlee. That’s a bit more than €4000 though.

magicbastarder

Lumen wrote: »

I like metal, but I honestly don't believe that the best metal frames ride as well as the best carbon ones.

I don't have any evidence of this, other than my experience with expensive titanium, which looks lovely but rides worse than even mid-range carbon.

It's hard to get objective opinions because people who buy metal frames in the 21st century tend to love them unconditionally.

*stands up on the bus*
i've never ridden a carbon bike.

Canis Lupus

magicbastarder wrote: »

*stands up on the bus*
i've never ridden a carbon bike.

I've only ridden one once. Alu is good enough for me. Not that gcn are definitive but they'd buy alu with better componentry as well.

https://youtu.be/h3RG5dztrXM

bikedude

BMC Road Machine?

A Bit under budget
http://www.fitzcycles.ie/p/3193/bmc-bikes
A Bit over budged with DI2
http://www.fitzcycles.ie/p/3194/bmc-bikes

Or a CAAD12 with DuraAce. Aluminium frame, with some excellent reviews. And that Purple colour is beautiful! Carbon wheels.

http://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=100108

terrydel

Aegir wrote: »

More than €4,000?

Get yourself a Parlee. That’s a bit more than €4000 though.

D'oh, obviously meant less than!

terrydel

Whats the opinion on this in terms of value?

https://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/scott-addict-rc-di2-dura-ace-9050-series-road-bike-black-green-2017-p334500

Seems great value to me.

magicbastarder

that's some discount, i'll grant that!

DirkVoodoo

Aegir wrote: »

More than €4,000?

Get yourself a Parlee. That’s a bit more than €4000 though.

When I saw the unconstrained title of the post, I got excited.

Imagine my disappointment when I saw there were very few 20k+ bikes being shown.

terrydel

magicbastarder wrote: »

that's some discount, i'll grant that!

I've contacted them, the frame cannot be upgraded to disc which might account for the heavy discount.
Its a great frame, my only concern would be I've never ridden a 52/36 and being 64kg albeit a pretty good climber, I'm not sure it would suit me over a compact.
Opinions on the price?

terrydel

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

When I saw the unconstrained title of the post, I got excited.

Imagine my disappointment when I saw there were very few 20k+ bikes being shown.

I always mix up my greater thans with my less thans and vice versa

magicbastarder

terrydel wrote: »

my only concern would be I've never ridden a 52/36

can the rings be bought separately and refitted?

terrydel

magicbastarder wrote: »

can the rings be bought separately and refitted?

I'll ask. Technically theres no reason it cant be set up as a 50/34 as far as I know, but Im not well versed technically on this stuff, no experience of dura ace.
I just ride the things!

Inquitus

This is a bargain if 54cm is your size, its a climbing bike not endurance mind, certainly very light, and has Di2.

https://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/scott-addict-rc-di2-dura-ace-9050-series-road-bike-black-green-2017-p334500

magicbastarder

ìnteresting that a climbing bike is sporting a mid compact rather than a compact?

terrydel

magicbastarder wrote: »

ìnteresting that a climbing bike is sporting a mid compact rather than a compact?

Its a high end climbing bike so probably aimed at better cyclists, hence my worry. Im a good climber at sportive level but having never tried this setup Im concerned it might not work for me.

Kaisr Sose

terrydel wrote: »

Its a high end climbing bike so probably aimed at better cyclists, hence my worry. Im a good climber at sportive level but having never tried this setup Im concerned it might not work for me.

I have 52/36 and 27t on the back. I would like to have 28 or 29t, but there is nothing here I can’t get up here with what I have (I am about 66kg and I would say you are a better climber). With shimano Dura ace bcd, you can run 50/34 from same bcd so easy to fix that.

Great price and if there was a 52 I would consider. Mind, if you add up the parts, it was never a £7599 bike - that would make the frame about £4K and that is custom carbon pricing.

terrydel

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

I have 52/36 and 27t on the back. I would like to have 28 or 29t, but there is nothing here I can’t get up here with what I have (I am about 66kg and I would say you are a better climber). With shimano Dura ace bcd, you can run 50/34 from same bcd so easy to fix that.

Great price and if there was a 52 I would consider. Mind, if you add up the parts, it was never a £7599 bike - that would make the frame about £4K and that is custom carbon pricing.

Thanks, do you know me
Stupid qs but what is bcd?

Kaisr Sose

terrydel wrote: »

Thanks, do you know me
Stupid qs but what is bcd?

Went up Glenmacnass with in 2015. I was on a Focus. You probably have wings now!

BCD is bolt circle diameter and chain sets are going more standard so you can fit alternative ring combinations on the same spider (attachment for rings)

terrydel

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Went up Glenmacnass with in 2015. I was on a Focus. You probably have wings now!

BCD is bolt circle diameter and chain sets are going more standard so you can fit alternative ring combinations on the same spider (attachment for rings)

Haha, I remember, I'd be a lot better now I think.
Havent cycled that way in nearly a year now, need to change that.
Thanks for the info there, that makes perfect sense now.

Inquitus

terrydel wrote: »

Its a high end climbing bike so probably aimed at better cyclists, hence my worry. Im a good climber at sportive level but having never tried this setup Im concerned it might not work for me.

You have a huge amount of leeway when setting the bike up to make it as aggressive or not as required. The chain rings can easily be changed, I bought a bike off them a few years back, was also a Scott, lovely bike still my race bike to this day. That's a very serious bike at a bloody good price, when I bought mine they didn't have my size and I mailed them, they amended the website to make my size available, so if its not there in your size, no harm in dropping them a mail.

terrydel

Inquitus wrote: »

You have a huge amount of leeway when setting the bike up to make it as aggressive or not as required. The chain rings can easily be changed, I bought a bike off them a few years back, was also a Scott, lovely bike still my race bike to this day. That's a very serious bike at a bloody good price, when I bought mine they didn't have my size and I mailed them, they amended the website to make my size available, so if its not there in your size, no harm in dropping them a mail.

Ive a Giant Defy 1 now, she's 2013 model size medium.
What size crank would be on that, guessing its 172.5? Should I go for that size if getting a new 50/34 chainset here?
Shop has quoted 420 sterling for the dura ace chainset which seems expensive.

magicbastarder

you will be able to read crank length off the inside of the cranks.
and you shouldn't need to buy a whole new chainset, just buy replacement chainrings.

terrydel

magicbastarder wrote: »

you will be able to read crank length off the inside of the cranks.
and you shouldn't need to buy a whole new chainset, just buy replacement chainrings.

I've mailed them to enquire about that.
Very much considering this and may just go with the setup as is and see how i get on.

Kaisr Sose

If you want to save a few €, you could use Stronglight rings

https://www.starbike.com/en/stronglight-shimano-dura-ace-fc-9000-chainring-11-speed-ct2-black-4-arm-110mm/

ford2600

Because something is "reduced" by 60% doesn't necessarily mean its good value to you. Only a complete tool ever paid £7,500 for that bike

You are left with
*a bike with disposable €1000 wheels
*a groupset you can't maintain yourself and will eventually be obsolete in a way mechanical can't
*€3,500 on a bike you never sat on, don't know if it'll fit you properly or like the feel of.

You might be as well off with a random €1500 105 aksium shod bike off the shelf as this and it'll easier/cheaper to maintain.

If you feel you have to spend €4000 why not get a frame made for you in material of choice, that will take the tyre/rim width you want? €1000 will cover decent wheels and groupset.

Moving a derailleur a few mm accurately and consistently is a solved riddle with quite a while(5800 is as much as you need). You won't notice any difference between €400 and €1000 wheels except in your wallet when it comes to replacing them.

terrydel

ford2600 wrote: »

Because something is "reduced" by 60% doesn't necessarily mean its good value to you. Only a complete tool ever paid £7,500 for that bike

You are left with
*a bike with disposable €1000 wheels
*a groupset you can't maintain yourself and will eventually be obsolete in a way mechanical can't
*€3,500 on a bike you never sat on, don't know if it'll fit you properly or like the feel of.

You might be as well off with a random €1500 105 aksium shod bike off the shelf as this and it'll easier/cheaper to maintain.

If you feel you have to spend €4000 why not get a frame made for you in material of choice, that will take the tyre/rim width you want? €1000 will cover decent wheels and groupset.

Moving a derailleur a few mm accurately and consistently is a solved riddle with quite a while(5800 is as much as you need). You won't notice any difference between €400 and €1000 wheels except in your wallet when it comes to replacing them.

I don't feel I 'have' to spend anything, its a budget I've set myself, and Im trying to find the best value I can for it, nothing more than that.
I'm not an n+1 person, I've been cycling now for 6 years and had the same entry-level bike the entire time, I've improved hugely in that time and feel like treating myself to something nice. Loads of people buy Canyon and Rose etc online and probably never sat on them, I dont see that as an issue and so long as the frame size is correct, its nothing a bikefit wouldnt address. In any case, there are shops here selling this frame and I can go sit on them if I think I really want to buy.
So there you go.