Incident at a roundabout

tofan95

Hi all,
I had a minor incident yesterday at a roundabout. Basically, when I entered were only 2 lanes(wanted to take the right turn-3rd exit) so I took the right lane. after the first exit another lane joined (my RHS lane became middle lane) . When I got to the 3rd exit I realised that it's not the one I actually want to take, so wanted to go around and take the correct one (correct one was actually the 2nd exit). Now, I wanted to change lanes and move into the 3rd lane(inner one, the one that goes around) but I couldn't, because another car was in that lane beside me, so decided to go around in the same lane until the exit I wanted to take or until I can move into the inner lane.
The problem is that the other driver who was driving in the 3rd lane(inner one, on my right ) decided to take the exit and without checking her mirrors/blind spot , drove into me.

Now I know that I wasn't in the correct lane, but she didn't check her mirrors/blind spot when changing lanes.
When I observed that she is changing lanes I stopped, but was too late, she hit me.

Who's fault was it ? I don't want to accept 100% blame, because it was her fault as well.
She denies completely that is her fault as well.

Cee-Jay-Cee

It sounds like the other driver was in the wrong lane. If they were approaching theur exit and are in the inner most lane then they are not in the correct lane. If you were not signalling to change lanes and she moved from the lane she was in and drove into your car then she is 100% in the wrong.

Regardless of whether you were in the correct lane for your exit, she moved into the lane you were already in and collided with your car. That should be your explanation to the insurance company (if they are involved) Just because someone is approaching their exit does not mean that they can barge into a lane when other cars are already in it. You will be even more vindicated if the front end of her car collided with the middle or rear of your car which shows that she was behind you and moved into a lane that was already occupied.

zubair

It doesn't matter what lane or exit you were taking, they changed lane and hit you. 100% their fault. It also sounds like they were very much in the wrong lane if they are going from 3 lanes in to the exit.

My explanation would be, I was in lane 2 they were in lane 3 they moved into my lane to take their exit and hit me in the process. No need to say which exit you were taking etc.

tofan95

well, she was in the correct lane because from where she entered she wanted to take the right turn and this particular exit was the correct one for her to take(even the road markings said that she can exit or go around , I wasn't supposed to be on the middle lane(on her left).. but still, what if I would've joined the roundabout just at the previous exit ? I would still be in the exact same spot as I was.
When I called her insurance company, they denied the claim because I was in the wrong lane. But still, she changed lanes without checking if it is safe to do so...

tofan95

And the issue is that the insurance companies did actually ask where I entered and so on.. and I said the truth ,maybe there are some cameras and they can check ...
And she hit me in my RHS, the scratch goes from my door(drivers door) up to the front right wheel.

GreeBo

It doesn't matter where you were going, *if* you were not changing lanes *and* you were following the lane markings, then if she changed lanes and drove into you, she is it fault.

However, on many roundabouts, its not possible to just drive all the way around in the same lane, inside or not, as the lanes come and go at each exit.
So while it may be that you were staying in the same position, you may actually have been changing lane.

Roundabouts on M50 exits are like this, don't suppose you were at Sandyford one?

AfterLife

Something similar happened to a friend of mine. He was in the right lane, tried to take his exit and hit a car flying around in the wrong lane. The assessor ruled against him because he hit the other car. You will probably be fine.

CeilingFly

I'd be asking which car was ahead.

If you were behind her car and she made a normal manoeuvre to move towards her exit, then I would think you were at fault as you were on the inside and should have been aware that the other car would have to move towards the exit.

I'm thinking that you were overly thinking of your missed exit and failed to be aware of the other driver and what they possibly could do and if you were behind her and on the left, it would be your responsibility to be aware of that driver.

But that's just one scenario. You will need to write down as much as possible now whilst its fresh. An assessor will be able to confirm many details and it will then be down to their feedback.

the_pen_turner

Those spiral roundabouts are designed so that the left lane foes off and the second lane becomes the left lane. If that's the case then you are 100 %at fault. Hard to tell without seeing the roundabout in question

tofan95

Well, I was at the roundabout near Liffey Valley shopping centre( I know there are a few roundabouts, so I tell you the exact one. )
Just as you take Exit 7 from M50 on Northbound to N4, then from N4 you take the first left exit to Liffey Shopping Centre. Now, there is like a really small roundabout where you take the left, and after that there is a big 3-lane one. That is the exact lane. I entered from N4, she entered from the shopping centre(my left, or the 1st exit from my point of view/driving)..
And about the position of the cars, we were more or less beside each other. I stopped and pulled to the left a bit and she hit me in my door, front right wheel.

CeilingFly

I think if you gave location of roundabout, a better answer will be provided as if its spiral markings, she would be 100% at fault.

tofan95

unfortunately i can't post links or pictures because I am a new user...

grogi

tofan95 wrote: »

And the issue is that the insurance companies did actually ask where I entered and so on.. and I said the truth ,maybe there are some cameras and they can check ...
And she hit me in my RHS, the scratch goes from my door(drivers door) up to the front right wheel.

It doesn't matter.

There is no correct lane to be at the typical Irish roundabout. Unless there are solid lines, you can exit from whichever lane you wish. But in the process one changes lanes and standard give way rules apply. If you want, you can keep driving the roundabout in circles and keep left lane. The if you exiting after 12 o'clock, use middle/right lane rubbish is just an invention of RSA and has no grounds in the law.

This is slightly different on the sprial/whirlpool/turbine RB - which once you take a lane will guide you towards the exit. If you change your mind, you need to cross the dashed line and take a different lane giving way to other cars.

GreeBo

https://www.google.com/maps/search/liffey+valley/@53.3537555,-6.4040684,130m/data=!3m1!1e3

This one?

irelandrover

Looking at the lane markings I'd say you are at fault. The lane you are in leaves the roundabout so you crossed another lane.

grogi

the_pen_turner wrote: »

Those spiral roundabouts are designed so that the left lane foes off and the second lane becomes the left lane. If that's the case then you are 100 %at fault. Hard to tell without seeing the roundabout in question

This. I love to see more of them around the country. They are much better than the bulk standard circles found everywhere...

tofan95

that's the one, GreeBo!

GreeBo

If it is the above one, I think you are at fault.

You cut across her as your lane exits at that point.
Her lane has the choice of exiting or continuing around.

FWIW, you were right to try to get into the inner lane as thats the one that can rightfully continue around. YOu should have waited for her to pass and moved in behind her.

grogi

tofan95 wrote: »

that's the one, GreeBo!

Did the collision happened at the northbound exit? If so, you're 100% at fault - you were crossing the dashed line.

tofan95

yeah..northbound... i can see now that I crossed the dashed line.. damn..

2Mad2BeMad

You caused the accident op.

She was turning off at her correct exit. You blocked her in when you decided to change lanes. She should of checked her mirrors to be fair. So you might get a 50/50.
Either way I don't think she can prove you were at fault unless you tell the insurance companies truthfully what way you entered and that you changed lanes.

grogi

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

So you might get a 50/50.

No way. No company would accept liability in such situation.

martyc5674

tofan95 wrote: »

yeah..northbound... i can see now that I crossed the dashed line.. damn..

You did ... but another car could easily have entered the roundabout (immediately before the exit she tried to take) and have been exactly where you ended up.. crossing that same line.
What would she have done then?
I believe that she should have been in the outermost lane immediately prior to her exit. It was her duty to get into that lane prior to exiting, and if that means missing her exit and doing an extra lap so be it.
She made an assumption that you were taking that turn and she’d roll off with you.
I’d hold tough on this... have you been to guards?

Yawns

martyc5674 wrote: »

You did ... but another car could easily have entered the roundabout (immediately before the exit she tried to take) and have been exactly where you ended up.. crossing that same line.

In this case, she would already be on the roundabout and have right of way over the car wishing to join, they would need to ensure the way was clear before moving onto the roundabout.

In the OP's scenario, he's in the wrong. He basically tried to do a full lap of the roundabout and attempt to to another half circle but he couldn't do that in the middle lane as his lane ran off towards the N4, the onus was on him to ensure the lane was clear before attempting to change lanes.

Fighting it will only drag it out tbh. It seems clear enough from the maps and OP has already told his side truthfully.

martyc5674

Yeah I get that... but she still wasn’t in the correct position to exit prior to her manoeuvre.
If I have this correct she followed the red arrow... OP followed the blue.

And as I said there could have been someone taking the yellow path assuming she was carrying on around the roundabout(cos that’s the lane she was in), so crossing the broken lines isn’t a no no. She had a duty to look before she made that manoeuvre.

db

From the road markings all the lanes in the roundabout can take the exit, only the right lane can continue around. OP had to change lanes to continue around and was 100% at fault.

Yawns

martyc5674 wrote: »

Yeah I get that... but she still wasn’t in the correct position to exit prior to her manoeuvre.
If I have this correct she followed the red arrow... OP followed the blue.

And as I said there could have been someone taking the yellow path assuming she was carrying on around the roundabout(cos that’s the lane she was in), so crossing the broken lines isn’t a no no. She had a duty to look before she made that manoeuvre.

I believe that is the exit that the OP wished to take, but he missed it on the first attempt and wanted to circle the roundabout to take it on next lap so to speak. However someone joined the roundabout coming from the shopping centre side and wanted to head towards the N4/M50 exit. They were in the correct lane the whole way and the OP wanted to change lanes.

In this pic the OP would be the green car and the other driver would be the silver i40, imagine the green car wanted to keep circling the roundabout in this pic, this is what happened.

honda boi

Yawns wrote: »

I believe that is the exit that the OP wished to take, but he missed it on the first attempt and wanted to circle the roundabout to take it on next lap so to speak. However someone joined the roundabout coming from the shopping centre side and wanted to head towards the N4/M50 exit. They were in the correct lane the whole way and the OP wanted to change lanes.

In this pic the OP would be the green car and the other driver would be the silver i40, imagine the green car wanted to keep circling the roundabout in this pic, this is what happened.

If that's the case then op is at fault in my opinion.

tofan95

I reported the incident to the guards as well, but they can't decide whos fault is it... they didn't evencome up when it happened because the damages were really minor, jut some scratches on both cars.

martyc5674

Yawns wrote: »

I believe that is the exit that the OP wished to take, but he missed it on the first attempt and wanted to circle the roundabout to take it on next lap so to speak. However someone joined the roundabout coming from the shopping centre side and wanted to head towards the N4/M50 exit. They were in the correct lane the whole way and the OP wanted to change lanes.

In this pic the OP would be the green car and the other driver would be the silver i40, imagine the green car wanted to keep circling the roundabout in this pic, this is what happened.

Absolutely... is that the actual exit?... I picked the north facing exit from the google maps last cation earlier in the thread. (I’m not familiar with the area)
They are v different exits.

Yawns

martyc5674 wrote: »

Absolutely... is that the actual exit?... I picked the north facing exit from the google maps last cation earlier in the thread. (I’m not familiar with the area)
They are v different exits.

Yes, have a read of post #10 and look at it in googlemaps streetview coming from the N4 side. The other car involved is coming from the shopping centre side and heading to the N4 direction, she is in the correct lane and the OP is not.

The picture I put up appears to be the exit where the accident happened. OP was changing lanes to circle around the roundabout again whilst the other car was in the correct lane to exit the roundabout.