The Indoctrination: Never really leaves does it?

Bloody hell; I was at a family funeral today (full catholic treatment) and I found myself having to consciously restrain myself from saying the chants and doing the motions.


It really is a case of get em young. It was so drilled into me at a young age (at my place of learning) that, even now, approaching 40 it's almost automatic to fall in with the herd mentality.


On the side note: Funerals really where they drive their message home, isn't it? You really understand how they get their hooks into the vulnerable with talk about "they are not really gone", "they are with god and friends", and "They are waiting for you".
Think that I have crossed from atheist to anti-theist to be honest

I'm currently in Japan and as a teacher I have to go to a lot of opening and closing and graduation ceremonies. They're all in Japanese so I never really know what's happening or what's being said, and I tend to drift off a lot.

But having grown up Catholic has given me the ability to automatically stand up when everyone else does.
So at least it's useful to me.

King Mob

King Mob wrote: »

I'm currently in Japan and as a teacher I have to go to a lot of opening and closing and graduation ceremonies. They're all in Japanese so I never really know what's happening or what's being said, and I tend to drift off a lot.

But having grown up Catholic has given me the ability to automatically stand up when everyone else does.
So at least it's useful to me.

At least you don't know what is being said!
My mind was betraying me and reciting the chants, which are still embedded in there obviously.

pauldla

Deleted User wrote: »

At least you don't know what is being said!
My mind was betraying me and reciting the chants, which are still embedded in there obviously.

Once a Catholic, always a Catholic. As you said, get 'em while they're young really pays off.

unkel

The indoctrination is fascinating. Hopefully and thankfully it will be all gone though in the next few decades. I grew up in another EU country - a founding EU country at that - and my parents (born in the 30s) were of the first generation that did no longer want to be indoctrinated. They rebelled against it in the 50s and never even baptised their children. I'm 50 years old and I was not baptised.

Ireland is about 60 years behind (with most new parents born in the 80s still baptising their children) but I'm predicting a significant percentage of people born in the 90s will no longer do so. This country is very lately, but very quickly catching up.

Cabaal

Deleted User wrote: »

restrain myself from saying the chants and doing the motions.t

Honestly,
Even when I did communion, confirmation as a kid and went to catholic schools I didn't know them. I certainly don't know them now or when to stand or sit.

I just know they changed a few years ago and that outraged some catholics, something about sin now.

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

Honestly,
Even when I did communion, confirmation as a kid and went to catholic schools I didn't know them. I certainly don't know them now or when to stand or sit.

I just know they changed a few years ago and that outraged some catholics, something about sin now.

I was an altar boy and went to St. Finbarr's college Cork (a pre-seminary secondary school), while I was never on priest track I well knew the ceremony.

NIMAN

unkel wrote: »

The indoctrination is fascinating. Hopefully and thankfully it will be all gone though in the next few decades. I grew up in another EU country - a founding EU country at that - and my parents (born in the 30s) were of the first generation that did no longer want to be indoctrinated. They rebelled against it in the 50s and never even baptised their children. I'm 50 years old and I was not baptised.

Ireland is about 60 years behind (with most new parents born in the 80s still baptising their children) but I'm predicting a significant percentage of people born in the 90s will no longer do so. This country is very lately, but very quickly catching up.

I think the current generation with young kids, and I am counted in this, is still going along with the indoctrination to make stuff like getting a school place easier. Unfortunately the CC still has enough influence to be in control of a large section of the country, but I have no doubt that when my young kids grow up, there will be a complete shift in how many people see themselves as practising christians.

At least I hope so. But it'll be up to them of course, but I do think it will be a very different country in 25 or 30yrs time.

Hotblack Desiato

It won't be a very different country in 25 or 30 years time if people keep on doing the same things their parents did for no good reason.

NIMAN

But the country is changing....wasn't fast enough in my case and I had to decide to make my kids official catholics to get them into the local school.

But look at gay marriage, normalisation of LGBT community, womens rights, abortion on its way, and there is already moves in place to begin moving education out of the hands of the CC...Irish society is much different than it was 30yrs ago, and it'll be much different in 35yrs time.

eviltwin

I think a big difference is that the kids being baptised today are really just going through the motions to get a school place. You don't see many families at mass, not in my area anyway. Years ago everyone went.

ford2600

Deleted User wrote: »

It really is a case of get em young. It was so drilled into me at a young age (at my place of learning) that, even now, approaching 40 it's almost automatic to fall in with the herd mentality.


On the side note: Funerals really where they drive their message home, isn't it? You really understand how they get their hooks into the vulnerable with talk about "they are not really gone", "they are with god and friends", and "They are waiting for you".
Think that I have crossed from atheist to anti-theist to be honest

I could still recite Polonius's advice to Laertes, Wordsworth's The Daffodils, almost the entire script of "Withnail and I" etc etc. It's 26 since I read Hamlet, 33 since I read Wordsworth and I was in college when I last watched Withnail.

Some stuff just stays locked in.

People do all sorts of things to get over death of a loved one; a believe in a forever land helps some people get through the day. Is it any worse than alcohol, gambling etc etc that people do to run from pain?

To me the believe in heaven is complete nonsense but it gives people close to me a lot of comfort.

Where the church still have control is where they own graveyard, rather than it being local authority property.

This thread is unlike the other recent thread about how to deal with wedding/funerals. I really enjoy them; the people watching/the old buildings/the nonsense in the mass along with bits of universal wisdom in the odd reading/the rituals.

Saturday will be great; 50 sets of parents sitting smiling at their loved ones whiles the man with a funny outfit tells 8 year olds have they have sinned most grievously.... Of course most people don't actually hear it and it is just a prelude to a party.

I'm doing a nice roast ham for party to flush out the Jews, Muslims and firemen:)

ford2600

ford2600 wrote: »

I could still recite Polonius's advice to Laertes, Wordsworth's The Daffodils, almost the entire script of "Withnail and I" etc etc. It's 26 since I read Hamlet, 33 since I read Wordsworth and I was in college when I last watched Withnail.

Some stuff just stays locked in.

People do all sorts of things to get over death of a loved one; a believe in a forever land helps some people get through the day. Is it any worse than alcohol, gambling etc etc that people do to run from pain?

To me the believe in heaven is complete nonsense but it gives people close to me a lot of comfort.

Where the church still have control is where they own graveyard, rather than it being local authority property.

This thread is unlike the other recent thread about how to deal with wedding/funerals. I really enjoy them; the people watching/the old buildings/the nonsense in the mass along with bits of universal wisdom in the odd reading/the rituals.

Saturday will be great; 50 sets of parents sitting smiling at their loved ones whiles the man with a funny outfit tells 8 year olds have they have sinned most grievously.... Of course most people don't actually hear it and it is just a prelude to a party.

I'm doing a nice roast ham for party to flush out the Jews, Muslims and firemen:)

Religion is taught in primary school, science isn't. Kids believe what their teachers say, because they've been told to. That's not harmless

ford2600

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Religion is taught in primary school, science isn't. Kids believe what their teachers say, because they've been told to. That's not harmless

You open a thread about an adult non believer going to a funeral and it's rituals ; I reply to it and mention in a light hearted way about upcoming communion.

Now thread is about science in primary schools or something....

Unfollow

ford2600

ford2600 wrote: »

You open a thread about an adult non believer going to a funeral and it's rituals ; I reply to it and mention in a light hearted way about upcoming communion.

Now thread is about science in primary schools or something....

Unfollow

I'm stating how indoctrination begins with kids. In Ireland that's in school where you're taught it as fact based subject. You see nothing wrong with having kids being put through that process, I do as it took me years to reject the teachings as fact.

In fact it was the entire thrust of the OP that, as an adult, I must still fight against the indoctrination received as a child. How did you miss that?

recedite

ford2600 wrote: »

I'm doing a nice roast ham for party to flush out the Jews, Muslims and firemen:)

Somebody's gotta ask.... what has ham got to do with firemen?