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Trailer insurance for twin axle car trailer
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16-05-2018 3:41pm#1Hi. I'm hitting a brick wall. I have a 6x4 box trailer with H-frame on one end. I am legally entitled to pull this on my licence. My problem is I cant get cover for it on my car insurance.
They keep asking me for make, model number and serial number. These things dont exist. The trailer is fully compliant with the law, has brakes, safety chain, working lights, and 2 spare wheels etc. But the insurance companies want something that physically doesnt exist in order to insure it. These requirements arent necessary for a single axle trailer.
Anybody have a solution, or details of an insurance company which doesnt expect the impossible of customers?
Thank You0
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Do all trailers now not need type approval?0
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Hi. I'm hitting a brick wall. I have a 6x4 box trailer with H-frame on one end. I am legally entitled to pull this on my licence. My problem is I cant get cover for it on my car insurance.
They keep asking me for make, model number and serial number. These things dont exist. The trailer is fully compliant with the law, has brakes, safety chain, working lights, and 2 spare wheels etc. But the insurance companies want something that physically doesnt exist in order to insure it. These requirements arent necessary for a single axle trailer.
Anybody have a solution, or details of an insurance company which doesnt expect the impossible of customers?
Thank You
If the trailer has brake it illegal to have "safety chain" it need a brake away cable that will apply the brake if it come adrift0 -
newmember? wrote: »Do all trailers now not need type approval?
Only those built after 2012. Any trailer older than this doesn't need to be plated or approved in anyway.
Any trailer built after this can't be homemade and has to be approved etc though I'm not sure how it can be proven when a trailer was built....0 -
OP, does your Insurance Cert state that you are covered while drawing a trailer ?
If so, then stop worrying about it and just work away. Whether or not the Trailer conforms with the relevant statutes is a matter for the Guards.
When you ask an Insurer for Insurance to cover you while towing a Trailer they will then try and cover that particular Trailer as well. You don't need this cover unless you are planning on making a claim for Theft of this Trailer while attached to your car, etc.0 -
If trailer towing is covered in your policy, then you can tow any trailer (within your licence) and it will be covered for 3rd party damage only. No details of the trailer are needed, you could have 3 different ones at home... Specific trailer insurance for loss or theft of the trailer is different and would need those details in order to have a clearly insurable commodity. I don't know too many private individuals who insure their trailer0
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TrailerBob wrote: »If trailer towing is covered in your policy, then you can tow any trailer (within your licence) and it will be covered for 3rd party damage only. No details of the trailer are needed, you could have 3 different ones at home... Specific trailer insurance for loss or theft of the trailer is different and would need those details in order to have a clearly insurable commodity. I don't know too many private individuals who insure their trailer
I've already checked this with insurance companies. If its a single axle trailer, you are covered, and you dont need to expand on details of the trailer with them. However if its a double axle trailer, you are required to give details such as make, model number etc. This is the small print. These things are non existent on most trailers in this country, and become a loophole for them declaring insurance null and void in event of a claim.
Should an accident ever arise, I dont want to find myself in a position where I am not covered on a technicality. Insurance companies are good at that, finding ways of not paying up.
Is there any way of satisfying these crooks so I am road legal and fully covered if an accident were to arise? The trailer I estimate is approx 8-10 years old. Its in good condition, but not a brand name, likely built by good welder/mechanic as there are shocks, lights and a braking system in it. I am just looking for 3rd party here.0 -
Claudia Great Studio wrote: »Only those built after 2012. Any trailer older than this doesn't need to be plated or approved in anyway.
Any trailer built after this can't be homemade and has to be approved etc though I'm not sure how it can be proven when a trailer was built....
Where can a trailer be approved?0 -
If the trailer has brake it illegal to have "safety chain" it need a brake away cable that will apply the brake if it come adrift
Not all trailer brakes are applied in this way. Why exactly is it illegal to have a safety chain? I've never heard of any such regulation in the past. Makes no sense to me.
Even with brakes fully applied, if trailer were to become disconnected, it would still take a "braking distance" for it to come to a standstill. If it happened on a bend, that would mean certain collision with oncoming traffic. At least with safety chain, you have the means to guide the unhitched trailer to a controlled stop.0 -
You should use either the breakaway cable or the safety chain, not both.Jayo2011 wrote:Even with brakes fully applied, if trailer were to become disconnected, it would still take a "braking distance" for it to come to a standstill. If it happened on a bend, that would mean certain collision with oncoming traffic. At least with safety chain, you have the means to guide the unhitched trailer to a controlled stop.0 -
Simona1986 wrote: »You should use either the breakaway cable or the safety chain, not both.
You might think alright you'll be better off with a chain .but just look at newer trailer it a a breakaway cable and that eu regulation it as sample as that .0 -
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You don’t need any extra sh1te your probably already covered to pull a trailer up to a certain weight already check your policy.
Just have middleing good tyres on it
Working lights
And a safety chain and chance it after that.
The second spare Tyre is overkill in my opinion unless you are going crossing Africa with it.its just extra weight to be carrying and another shiny thing to attract thieving magpies.
Do you think all the boys drawing turf for a few days in summer bother with calling insurance companies.most lads would even just have a trailer on borrow.dont be worrying about it.a lot of the crowd answering them phones wouldn’t know a trailer from a barrow.youl only stress yourself0 -
And avoid rsa/garda checkpointsDoctors room ghost wrote: »You don’t need any extra sh1te your probably already covered to pull a trailer up to a certain weight already check your policy.
Just have middleing good tyres on it
Working lights
And a safety chain and chance it after that.
The second spare Tyre is overkill in my opinion unless you are going crossing Africa with it.its just extra weight to be carrying and another shiny thing to attract thieving magpies.
Do you think all the boys drawing turf for a few days in summer bother with calling insurance companies.most lads would even just have a trailer on borrow.dont be worrying about it.a lot of the crowd answering them phones wouldn’t know a trailer from a barrow.youl only stress yourself0 -
On a braked trailer, you must have a breakaway cable. You can have a safety chain too but it must be longer than the breakaway cable meaning the breakaway cable is allowed to engage first.
The reasoning behind this is that a trailer held on by safety chain only, has the real potential to fishtail wildly, meaning you could still be attached but you'd be taking out everything either side of you. Nothing to stop the trailer ploughing into the back of you either.0 -
I've already checked this with insurance companies. If its a single axle trailer, you are covered, and you dont need to expand on details of the trailer with them. However if its a double axle trailer, you are required to give details such as make, model number etc. This is the small print. These things are non existent on most trailers in this country, and become a loophole for them declaring insurance null and void in event of a claim.
Should an accident ever arise, I dont want to find myself in a position where I am not covered on a technicality. Insurance companies are good at that, finding ways of not paying up.
Is there any way of satisfying these crooks so I am road legal and fully covered if an accident were to arise? The trailer I estimate is approx 8-10 years old. Its in good condition, but not a brand name, likely built by good welder/mechanic as there are shocks, lights and a braking system in it. I am just looking for 3rd party here.
What companies are you dealing with? I have had policies with Axa, FBD and Liberty commercial and private, with trailer towing included on all. I've never been asked for any details of trailers.
The number of axles on a light trailer also had no bearing on anything.. it's all about weight. If an insurance company is telling you this, then it's their own thing. It's not in any law0 -
Where can a trailer be approved?
An NASI approved test centre I would imagine. Our trailers are all pre 2012 so have never worried with any type of approval etc though. I'd imagine it will be difficult to pass an older trailer.I've already checked this with insurance companies. If its a single axle trailer, you are covered, and you dont need to expand on details of the trailer with them. However if its a double axle trailer, you are required to give details such as make, model number etc. This is the small print. These things are non existent on most trailers in this country, and become a loophole for them declaring insurance null and void in event of a claim.
Should an accident ever arise, I dont want to find myself in a position where I am not covered on a technicality. Insurance companies are good at that, finding ways of not paying up.
Is there any way of satisfying these crooks so I am road legal and fully covered if an accident were to arise? The trailer I estimate is approx 8-10 years old. Its in good condition, but not a brand name, likely built by good welder/mechanic as there are shocks, lights and a braking system in it. I am just looking for 3rd party here.
We have always towed double axle trailers and never heard of having to declare them nor have I ever heard anyone else declaring a trailer be it single or double axle (nor heard of insurance companies requiring it either). Nearly all car/jeep trailers are double axle minimum anyway so it would be a bit of a crazy rule especially as loads of people have unapproved trailers.0 -
From: http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Vehicle%20Std%20Leg/Road%20Safety%20Advice%20for%20Drawing%20Light%20Trailers%20A5%20booklet%20Amends%209-12-15%20%20%20%20.pdf
Note that it is not appropriate to equip light trailers with both a secondary coupling
and a breakaway brake as the former will prevent the latter from moving if the trailer
separates from the towing vehicle. Furthermore, is it not appropriate to replace a
broken breakaway brake with a secondary coupling as Road Traffic law places an
onus on vehicle owners/operators to maintain original braking systems (including a
breakaway brake where fitted) in efficient working order.0 -
TrailerBob wrote: »What companies are you dealing with? I have had policies with Axa, FBD and Liberty commercial and private, with trailer towing included on all. I've never been asked for any details of trailers.
The number of axles on a light trailer also had no bearing on anything.. it's all about weight. If an insurance company is telling you this, then it's their own thing. It's not in any law
My father checked it out with several other insurance companies and found the snag regarding twin axle trailers, as he wanted to borrow the trailer and wanted to be above board first.
I am currently with Aviva with my car. I also have separate commercial insurance and use the trailer on my commercial vehicle. I am fully insured on the commercial vehicle but am considering selling it soon and just driving the car.
From legal standing, its not essentially about weight, its to do with the number of axles on your trailer and what you are licenced to drive (under 3,500kg on most licences). Weight only comes into it if you are put on a weigh bridge and found to be either exceeding this limit or exceeding the combined laden weight specified by the vehicle manufacturer.
But thats off topic. I phoned Aviva yesterday to ensure I was road legal with the trailer. They checked with the underwriters and informed me that a single axle = no problem, double axle = trailer manufacturer, model, serial number, year of manufacturer etc. The consensus I got from my father was the same. Basically unless its a Williams trailer or a similar branded model, they wont touch it. This means if you are in an accident, they have a loophole not to pay out.
BTW - when getting insured commercially, they dont require trailer details. Thats been my experience to date, and I've held insurances on pretty much the same list u have. Private insurance is where the red tape surfaces. I suggest you check your policy to be sure0 -
My father checked it out with several other insurance companies and found the snag regarding twin axle trailers, as he wanted to borrow the trailer and wanted to be above board first.
I am currently with Aviva with my car. I also have separate commercial insurance and use the trailer on my commercial vehicle. I am fully insured on the commercial vehicle but am considering selling it soon and just driving the car.
From legal standing, its not essentially about weight, its to do with the number of axles on your trailer and what you are licenced to drive (under 3,500kg on most licences). Weight only comes into it if you are put on a weigh bridge and found to be either exceeding this limit or exceeding the combined laden weight specified by the vehicle manufacturer.
But thats off topic. I phoned Aviva yesterday to ensure I was road legal with the trailer. They checked with the underwriters and informed me that a single axle = no problem, double axle = trailer manufacturer, model, serial number, year of manufacturer etc. The consensus I got from my father was the same. Basically unless its a Williams trailer or a similar branded model, they wont touch it. This means if you are in an accident, they have a loophole not to pay out.
BTW - when getting insured commercially, they dont require trailer details. Thats been my experience to date, and I've held insurances on pretty much the same list u have. Private insurance is where the red tape surfaces. I suggest you check your policy to be sure
Could stick a plate to the trailer saying?
Jayo's Trailers
Model - Jayo #1
Serial # - 001
Made - 2008
Then give that to the insurance companies.0 -
This is one of the reasons I'm concerned regarding trailers. Apparently there is a certain element of ignorance arising from them. Some people apparently think they can tow whatever they like just because at a glance their driving licence and insurance policy says they can. Small print will dictate that there are conditions that must be met in order for the Insurance to be valid.
About 2 years ago I was asked to move a horsebox for a neighbour as a favour. The idiot never put a safety bolt through the hitch (something I always do). I assumed it being his trailer and his horses inside that he had the knowledge capacity to connect it correctly. Apparently he didnt, and its a lesson I've since learned never to trust anyone other than yourself when connecting a trailer.
Long story short, en-route to destination, the trailer became unhitched and fishtailed as you described wildly. I knew i couldnt just solid brake, as that would mean risk jack knifing my van. As I brought it to a gradual stop, the trailer smashed into the rear of the van several times knocking me onto the wrong side of the road at one point. But the sh*ts up me to say the least. But a lesson learned. Since then I have insisted on trailer brakes, chain, bolt through the hitch and just about every other safety device I can find. Call it overkill, but in my own experience, you can never be too safe.
It was also the closest I have been to a serious accident, and in the eventuality that an unfortunate accident should ever occur again, for whatever reason, I'd just like to ensure I'm covered, or other people reading this post are properly covered too. Last thing you want to do is wake up in a hospital bed is to find out that not alone have you sustained serious injuries, and possibly maimed or killed someone, but you then face the prospect of losing the roof over your head because the insurance company you thought covered you had found a way to renege on cover. People need to read and understand their policies, not finding out in court they misread their cover.
If there is an insurance company out there that will insure a pre 2012 twin axle trailer that doesnt have a manufacturer, model, or serial number attached, on a private motor policy (not commercial), could you pass me on details please.
Thank you0 -
Could stick a plate to the trailer saying?
Jayo's Trailers
Model - Jayo #1
Serial # - 001
Made - 2008
Then give that to the insurance companies.
I've considered that while banging my head off the wall while speaking to an idiot on the other end of the phone who insisted that I should bring the trailer to a mechanic to see if he could find the non existent details. I dont know where insurance companies recruit their robots. Apparently they have loads of them, and they all talk the same.
Proving the trailer was built in 2008 is first problem. Name of company manufacturer is a second. Jayo's Trailers isnt a legitimately registered company, and if its not legit, you're not covered0 -
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Had a similar question at the weekend.
My car is insured with an post and underwritten by Aviva. My policy states im only insured on a single axle trailer. I rang them about a double axle, was put in hold and then told I would be called back (ie they researched it). When they came back to me they stated that once unladen trailer weight is less than 1.5 tonnes(and loaded weight within legal towing limits of my car) then they don’t care if it’s a single / double axle. I got this in writing.0 -
Jayo.... I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but light trailer regulations are all about weight, and what you can legally tow on your licence, and with your vehicle. To suggest that it only matters if you are put on a weighbridge is mad. Where the number of axles comes into it is about weight... one axle can carry x amount.. two can carry more..
Im also intrigued by this 'safety bolt' you mention above.. what are you referring to? Any modern hitch coupling is spring loaded with a retaining unit built into the head.. there is nothing else, unless it's a very old box with a 1970's Bradley hitch. People mistake 'type approval' with fit for purpose. A hitch will not come undone if it is in good condition.
I appreciate where you are coming from with insurance small print, and insurance companies will not like trailers without a manufacturers plate. However unless your trailer is a death trap and comes away across the road causing a serious incident I can't see it being relevant. Remember 3rd party cover is paid out regardless.0 -
* I assume you are trying to get full trailer cover.. otherwise why would they want all the details.0
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J.pilkington wrote: »Had a similar question at the weekend.
My car is insured with an post and underwritten by Aviva. My policy states im only insured on a single axle trailer. I rang them about a double axle, was put in hold and then told I would be called back (ie they researched it). When they came back to me they stated that once unladen trailer weight is less than 1.5 tonnes(and loaded weight within legal towing limits of my car) then they don’t care if it’s a single / double axle. I got this in writing.
This is exactly all I was looking from them when I rang, something in writing. Instead I got some silly little girl on the other end of the phone who doesnt know the parameters of the product she is selling. Insisting there is a manufacturer plate on an older trailer when there clearly is not is what I was up against.
On Monday I'll try ringing back and see if I can get someone who knows their product a little better0 -
TrailerBob wrote: »Jayo.... I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but light trailer regulations are all about weight, and what you can legally tow on your licence, and with your vehicle. To suggest that it only matters if you are put on a weighbridge is mad. Where the number of axles comes into it is about weight... one axle can carry x amount.. two can carry more..
Im also intrigued by this 'safety bolt' you mention above.. what are you referring to? Any modern hitch coupling is spring loaded with a retaining unit built into the head.. there is nothing else, unless it's a very old box with a 1970's Bradley hitch. People mistake 'type approval' with fit for purpose. A hitch will not come undone if it is in good condition.
I appreciate where you are coming from with insurance small print, and insurance companies will not like trailers without a manufacturers plate. However unless your trailer is a death trap and comes away across the road causing a serious incident I can't see it being relevant. Remember 3rd party cover is paid out regardless.
The question isn't about legally tow or weight. All you need to be legally compliant is not to be exceeding 3,5 tons, and have a roadworthy trailer en tow.
The question is not about the legal side of things, its about the insurance underwriting, and conforming to their small print. If you are in an accident pulling a trailer, you may find yourself not covered if something does go wrong. They have the right to deem your insurance null and void and not pay out if you dont conform to the small print. This is why underwriters sneak in escape clauses. Last thing after an accident is to find yourself having to sell your home because insurance company, after raping u on its premium, has found a way to not pay up.
Regarding hitch type, it is a Bradley braked hitch, likely one of the older designs. But it is functional and does what it is required to do. After checking out specifications, I've found out that on a light trailer this size doesn't require brakes, but what the hell, no harm having them, slowing down at roundabouts etc is much safer.
The bold mechanism - you could use a lock. This is basically where people put a padlock on their trailer - I use a bolt, not to prevent robbing, but instead to prevent unhitching. A trailer cant unhitch if there is a padlock or bolt in place.
Someone else mentioned insurance type. I am only looking for 3rd party on the trailer, not full cover, and as already mentioned, the insurance companies I've checked with DO ask for details regarding twin axle trailers if they are to be insured on your policy. I suggest everyone check their policies. Pleading ignorance in court is a chance I'm not willing to take.
Apparently there are plenty of chancers out there (can be seen from some of the replies on this thread), I'm not one of them, and I wish to make other drivers aware of the loophole that may also exist on their policies where people thing they are insured, when in fact they are not. Even on 3rd party only, your car is not insured in an accident if it is pulling something it is not "insured" to pull, even if it is road legal to pull the load.
Trailer Bob, Just a quick query regarding 3rd party cover. Are you 100% sure 3rd party insurance is paid out regardless? 3rd party is all i'm looking for, but is it not the case that your insurance underwriter reserves the right to deem the policy null and void if you have not complied with its specific requirements, declaring all details etc?0 -
Insurance companies are required to pay out to a 3rd party in the case of an accident that is your fault. The issue of non-conformity etc, is an issue for you and any claim you might put in on your policy. Very same as if you had no NCT, but they would cover the 3rd party, and you would be left to your own devices, and those of the Gardai perhaps.
When you originally asked the question, it was about number of axles - which makes it about weight and legality too. I'm trying to clarify that the law about towing trailers is not about axles, so your insurance company are not correct to specify this.
I don't want to get into the weight thing too much - it's not quite as simple as you state, but that's the gist of it.
I see what you are doing with the older bradley hitch, but it shouldn't be necessary if the hitch is in full working order. If that's your preference, then keep doing it
I don't manufacture trailers, but I would have more than my fair share of towing experience, with cars, 4x4s & trucks, and i fear that you are over thinking it slightly for 3rd party cover.0 -
TrailerBob wrote: »Insurance companies are required to pay out to a 3rd party in the case of an accident that is your fault. The issue of non-conformity etc, is an issue for you and any claim you might put in on your policy. Very same as if you had no NCT, but they would cover the 3rd party, and you would be left to your own devices, and those of the Gardai perhaps.
When you originally asked the question, it was about number of axles - which makes it about weight and legality too. I'm trying to clarify that the law about towing trailers is not about axles, so your insurance company are not correct to specify this.
I don't want to get into the weight thing too much - it's not quite as simple as you state, but that's the gist of it.
I see what you are doing with the older bradley hitch, but it shouldn't be necessary if the hitch is in full working order. If that's your preference, then keep doing it
I don't manufacture trailers, but I would have more than my fair share of towing experience, with cars, 4x4s & trucks, and i fear that you are over thinking it slightly for 3rd party cover.
Thanks, it is just some clarity I am looking for. there is a lot of disinformation out there - assumed legal standing and actual legal standing.
U are correct regarding weight. Cops and courts are only really only interested if your trailer and load is compliant with laden weights, and RSA regulations. Joe soap after passing his test is road legal to pull a twin axle trailer, not 3 or more axles, and laden weight not to exceed 3.500 kg. I think insurance companies are playing with the law from this point forward.
They are pushing older trailers off the road by refusing to provide cover if they dont meet the newer 2012 regulations. Asking for something non-existent means they cannot, or will not proceed with your cover until you supply them with this information. This is the tripe I repeatedly got on the phone. They do similar dribble with cars over 10 years old, or houses built on flood plains. Insuring only where it suits them. Create barriers where no barrier exists.
I too have my own fair share of pulling trailers, both commercial and private, but its just a topic raised with me recently and when checking with my insurance company, I met this clause. I have a van, am thinking of selling it, but also have a car, and before going to the trouble of buying and fitting a hitch, I want to ensure I can "insurably" pull a twin axle trailer on it.
Your point of non conformity makes some sense to me. But all insurance policies clearly state you may not be covered if you have no NCT. Cops will do you for the same. Your car is not compliant with the RSA without a valid NCT Cert. Again this is another grey area, as usually motorists drive their cars out the door of a test center after failing, something that defeats the purpose of the test. Far as I am aware, they will still cover you provided the old NCT is still valid, but theoretically, after the old NCT surpasses its expiry date, you should be bringing the vehicle to the test center on a trailer to be tested, as it is not road legal and is not insured to be on the road even if insurance policy is in date. But again this is getting off point.
Depending on the judge, this may mean you have no cover if tested in court (something I'm not prepared to chance). Trailer cover one would assume is straight forward if its only 3rd party, but nothing is straight forward with insurance companies once it comes to paying out. Its a very grey area, and something I'll prob need to seek more info on, maybe a solicitor might have more advice on a test case. As I say, I'm only looking for 3rd party, cover my own arse. An extension of the car insurance, not a separate full cover trailer policy. Its not an expensive trailer, nothing i would lose much sleep over, but I would like to think I have some 3rd party cover should something happen.
Thanks for your advice0 -
I get where you are coming from, but 3rd parties have to be covered for their damage regardless of your situation. If you have no insurance policy, that's different, but if you have a policy, they may choose to weasel out of paying your damage if you are found to have breached their T&Cs. They will still cover the 3rd party if you are at fault.
That's why I can't understand the detail they are asking for, or any of the axle nonsense. The last time I spoke to an Insurance Co directly about it was to confirm i was covered for towing in mainland Europe. They confirmed I was, and never asked about the trailer (14ft twin axle with a box) , and off I went
Maybe that stipulation was designed with caravans in mind, as British based insurers have to consider more regs around trailers there, with tachographs needed for vans and large 4x4s for commercial users.0 -
Joe soap after passing his test is road legal to pull a twin axle trailer, not 3 or more axles, and laden weight not to exceed 3.500 kg.
I've never come across any regulation on towing a tri-axel trailer on B licence, I have done it regularly in the past. Now I may have been over the weight limits for a B licence but thats a different story but I don't think the number of axels matters
Honestly I think you are getting way too over concerned about all this.0 -
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Just for clarity. If you are driving outside the terms of your insurance policy then yes 3rd parties are covered., but the insurance companies can then sue you in civil court to recover the payout. They never used to but I think I read here that they have started and with the focus on premiums they are looking to recoup money more than ever. Civil courts are based on the balance of probabilities and there is no innocent till proven guilty.0
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