Confused over what I am

ArthurorMartha

Hi, new to this site and this is 1st thread, so here goes, I,m in my early 60's and brought up in a very heterosexual society, always attracted to beautiful women and married one at an early age, still married to her and love her, kids and grandchildren as well, 
However always had gay feelings which a brushed aside, I've never cheated on my wife with another women, but had a couple of brushes with men but either the thought of cheating or the scene I did not enjoy the casual sex thing, recently I've started wearing stockings under my clothing in secret which I love.
I would rather die than hurt my family but i feel i need a genuine gay relationship to help me decide what i am, I no longer have a sexual relationship with my wife but still love her.
Any help appreciated 
Nic

tedpan

Try talking to her. It looks like things have gone stale anyway, and I'm sure she has ideas that something is wrong too.

ArthurorMartha

Not an option, she thinks it is just my age, she couldn't except I know her to well

Heebie

It sounds like you're asking the boards.ie community, or the lgbtq+ community on boards, to either give you permission, or help provide a rationalization, for stepping out on your wife.

I hope none of us takes that bait.

There are only two ways for you to gain permission... from yourself, and from your wife.
If you know she won't accept it, then you have to decide if finding out is more important to you than your marriage.
If you have an immediate answer to that question, then that's that. If not, look at these things as objectively as you can, weigh out the positives and negatives, then make an informed choice.

You could also try talking to her about your feelings. If she genuinely loves you, she might surprise you. (Or she may not, we're not talking about something that would be easy to accept after years of marriage.)

Have you tried going to counseling about this? There are probably help groups available that could at least help you find ways to cope with living in the closet.

as for the wearing panties bit, it isn't related necessarily to sexual feelings about other men. It might be an entirely separate thing.

I wish you the best in moving forward!

JackTaylorFan

Heebie wrote: »

.

as for the wearing panties bit, it isn't related necessarily to sexual feelings about other men. It might be an entirely separate thing.
!

It sounds like a fetish thing, to be honest.

Heebie

JackTaylorFan wrote:

It sounds like a fetish thing, to be honest.

Yeah. I just wanted to point out that they're not the same "issue" (in quotes, because I don't really consider either one an "issue"... But can't think of a more accurate term at the moment.)

locohobo

No I don't honestly think its a fetish thing, just as I don't honestly think it may be a gay thing either..
Am wondering here Op when you are alone or when not having to deal with the everyday things of masculine life do you feel of being more in touch/comfortable with the feminine aspect of your thinking...When you do wear the stockings/Lingerie do you get a feeling of comfort/belonging/this feels right rather than a feeling of sexual gratification...
Oh! and as you have already mentioned a gay relationship, I am wondering if while you were/are pondering such relationship which do you think attracts you more to such a relationship, being a top or bottom...

severedsnakes

If you do decide that you want to go off with another man, make sure you talk to your wife first. If this is a problem, then maybe try not to resort to that. The last thing that you want to end up doing is cheat on her and hurt her. You need to talk this out or figure something out yourself. As to the stockings, that could be a fetish but it doesn't mean you're gay. You could be bi-curious.

JackTaylorFan

ArthurorMartha wrote: »

However always had gay feelings which a brushed aside
Nic

locohobo wrote: »

No I don't honestly think its a fetish thing, just as I don't honestly think it may be a gay thing either..

locohobo wrote: »

Oh! and as you have already mentioned a gay relationship, I am wondering if while you were/are pondering such relationship which do you think attracts you more to such a relationship, being a top or bottom...

Your cognitive dissonance is showing, but okay

locohobo

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Your cognitive dissonance is showing, but okay

If one is not fully aware and understanding of ones feelings it can lead to a misinterpretation...

"recently I've started wearing stockings under my clothing in secret which I love."..
.Does this sound like what a a male gay person does...

" but had a couple of brushes with men but either the thought of cheating or the scene I did not enjoy the casual sex thing".....
Does this sound like a gay man....

"recently I've started wearing stockings under my clothing in secret which I love."
Now this sounds like a man that has transgender and/or transvestite inclinations....

Remember, all is not just what a person says, rather what is unsaid but implied...
Read between the lines....

Oh and BTW...you're term "cognitive dissonance" explains what I mean if you care to read attached link....https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cognitive%20dissonance.

igCorcaigh

locohobo wrote: »

"recently I've started wearing stockings under my clothing in secret which I love."..
.Does this sound like what a a male gay person does...

Not necessarily, but some do. I know of a man in his 60's who cross dresses, but is still gay, or at least bi.

locohobo wrote: »

" but had a couple of brushes with men but either the thought of cheating or the scene I did not enjoy the casual sex thing".....
Does this sound like a gay man....

It does to me.

locohobo

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Not necessarily, but some do. I know of a man in his 60's who cross dresses, but is still gay, or at least bi.




It does to me.

"bi".....so neither one or the other...Really is confused then.....

"or the scene I did not enjoy"....Not that they were not suited...But he DID NOT ENJOY....sends questions through my mind just as it is doing to the Ops mind...."Am I gay or what"....Thats what we are trying to bring realisation on....

igCorcaigh

locohobo wrote: »

"bi".....so neither one or the other...Really is confused then.....

Oh no, I have to not like this statement loco. Bisexuality is not about "neither one or the other" or about being "confused"!

locohobo wrote: »

"or the scene I did not enjoy"....Not that they were not suited...But he DID NOT ENJOY....sends questions through my mind just as it is doing to the Ops mind...."Am I gay or what"....Thats what we are trying to bring realisation on....

I know. I wouldn't enjoy the scene either, if I were OP.

I don't think any one of us can answer the OP's question about sexual identity. Maybe only give advice on how he should proceed, which I think poster Heebie has correctly done.

JackTaylorFan

locohobo wrote: »

If one is not fully aware and understanding of ones feelings it can lead to a misinterpretation...

Sometimes... but OP already established he has attraction towards men...

locohobo wrote: »

"recently I've started wearing stockings under my clothing in secret which I love."..
.Does this sound like what a a male gay person does...

No, not necessarily, but it sounds like something a fetishist would...

locohobo wrote: »

" but had a couple of brushes with men but either the thought of cheating or the scene I did not enjoy the casual sex thing".....
Does this sound like a gay man....

Kinda, yeah...Unless you are saying all gay men are only after casual sex - is that what you are saying?

locohobo wrote: »

"recently I've started wearing stockings under my clothing in secret which I love."
Now this sounds like a man that has transgender and/or transvestite inclinations....

Well, first off, being transgender has very little to do with clothing - let alone intimate clothing associated with kink - and I resent the implication.

Secondly, who says you can't have both a transvestite fetish and also be gay?

igCorcaigh

It's a hard question OP, but all this flurry of labels, gay this, trans that, doesn't help.

I'm not sure if talking to your wife may help, it actually might destabilize your relationship, and that would not be a good thing.
You know best yourself.

I think you have already gone to gay clubs or bars, explored that and maybe have had casual sex.
OK.

Maybe that is enough, what more are you searching for? A label to answer the question "what am I?"

Well, what is anyone. You live a life, you get to know yourself, and care for people you love.
What more to life is there?

locohobo

igCorcaigh wrote: »

It's a hard question OP, but all this flurry of labels, gay this, trans that, doesn't help.

I'm not sure if talking to your wife may help, it actually might destabilize your relationship, and that would not be a good thing.
You know best yourself.

I think you have already gone to gay clubs or bars, explored that and maybe have had casual sex.
OK.

Maybe that is enough, what more are you searching for? A label to answer the question "what am I?"

Well, what is anyone. You live a life, you get to know yourself, and care for people you love.
What more to life is there?

Yes igCorcaigh it is a hard question but as you said.."Get to know yourself" and that is why the Op is posting here, to seek avenues of help in reaching that realisation. There is no doubt that the Op cares deeply for the people in his life, but for his life to be complete I feel he would love to understand why he has these feelings...


I lot of other posts since my last post, am not ignoring them but am pushed for time right now and would also prefer to wait until the Op revisits this thread to reply to the input rather than continue second guessing....

ArthurorMartha

locohobo wrote: »

No I don't honestly think its a fetish thing, just as I don't honestly think it may be a gay thing either..
Am wondering here Op when you are alone or when not having to deal with the everyday things of masculine life do you feel of being more in touch/comfortable with the  feminine aspect of your thinking...When you do wear the stockings/Lingerie do you get a feeling of comfort/belonging/this feels right rather than a feeling of sexual gratification...
Oh! and as you have already mentioned a gay relationship, I am wondering if while you were/are pondering such  relationship which do you think attracts you more to such a relationship, being a top or bottom...

Thank you, because they feel good, not for sexual gratification, at work under my clothing, I don't know were it comes from and tried, for many years to ignore, the gay side is as a bottom but again it would require deep feeling for somebody tried the casual thing and nothing there for me.

ArthurorMartha

Heebie wrote: »

It sounds like you're asking the boards.ie community, or the lgbtq+ community on boards, to either give you permission, or help provide a rationalization, for stepping out on your wife.

I hope none of us takes that bait.

There are only two ways for you to gain permission... from yourself, and from your wife.
If you know she won't accept it, then you have to decide if finding out is more important to you than your marriage.
If you have an immediate answer to that question, then that's that. If not, look at these things as objectively as you can, weigh out the positives and negatives, then make an informed choice.

You could also try talking to her about your feelings. If she genuinely loves you, she might surprise you. (Or she may not, we're not talking about something that would be easy to accept after years of marriage.)

Have you tried going to counseling about this? There are probably help groups available that could at least help you find ways to cope with living in the closet.

as for the wearing panties bit, it isn't related necessarily to sexual feelings about other men. It might be an entirely separate thing.

I wish you the best in moving forward!

Thanks but i'm not asking for anything, I am just confused and unable to fight my feelings, if Ii'm honest with myself I feel I would just like to be alone to explore whatever I am but scared of losing 40 plus years of my life and family

cgcsb

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

It sounds like a fetish thing, to be honest.

A lot of older gay men are into that sort of thing, I think it's purely psychological, they know they're hiding something from general society and they feel like that something they're hiding needs physical form, but still to be hidden from public.

cgcsb

severedsnakes wrote: »

You could be bi-curious.

He's in his 60s. The curiosity stage of his psycho sexual development ended almost half a century ago.

cgcsb

ArthurorMartha wrote: »

Thanks but i'm not asking for anything, I am just confused and unable to fight my feelings, if Ii'm honest with myself I feel I would just like to be alone to explore whatever I am but scared of losing 40 plus years of my life and family

You could tell your wife that you are gay(or bisexual, you haven't indicated which applies to you). Then wait a while for her to get over that, then start talking about how you feel about other men, or one man in particular. You'll know by her reaction what to do then. She'll either want rid of you straight away, want to keep you with her in monogamy for ever or want to stay with you and let you see other men.

I think at your age odds are she'll want to stay with you, even if you being with other men makes her unhappy, because no matter how hard you think it might be to be a single gay guy in your 60s, it ain't half as much a chore as being a woman on her own post menopause. But of course, you know her best. I think what you want is to still have a wife and then have a boyfriend on the side, which isn't fair on your wife and I don't know any sort of man who would have such low self worth that he'd want to be a married man's boyfriend on the side, who would be a sort of 2nd class partner. But sure look, it takes all sorts and perhaps you can find such a man.

baby and crumble

cgcsb wrote: »

He's in his 60s. The curiosity stage of his psycho sexual development ended almost half a century ago.

I don't think that's fair, there's plenty of folks who come out later in life after heterosexual marriages etc. Many meet someone who light that side of them up for the first time. Some people just repress things for decades. It can be like being a teenager again, for some folks.

igCorcaigh

ArthurorMartha wrote: »

Thanks but i'm not asking for anything, I am just confused and unable to fight my feelings, if Ii'm honest with myself I feel I would just like to be alone to explore whatever I am but scared of losing 40 plus years of my life and family

It's OK if you're not asking for anything, understood. Maybe you just want a way of expressing your frustration?
OK, I hope we can be of help.

And of course you're unable to fight your feelings; feelings should never be fought against.

And being honest with yourself, you say you want to be alone. There you go.
But losing 40 plus years of your life (and others) is not good.

You can't have it both ways OP.
But I hope we can listen and talk you through it.

Heebie

ArthurorMartha wrote:

but scared of losing 40 plus years of my life and family

Here's the important bit.
Is it worth risking your marriage and potential damage to your family too explore who you are now?

A lot of people lose touch with who they are right now. We seem to have a definition of ourselves that is fixed in our minds, when we're actually changing with every experience.

I can see "being half of a couple" as readily making it more difficult to explore who "I am" because the focus is who "we are"

If you feeling part of "we" is more important than "who am I"... That's an easy choice to make.

It would not be fair to "we" nor to her (intentionally not in quotes) to do that exploration of "me" without her knowledge and consent

When a human being logically knows the answer to a question like this one, but feels a need or desire for something else, we do something called "rationalization" which is searching for reasons/circumstances (internal and external) that grant us permission to do the things we know we shouldn't.
We all do it, and it seems to be what you're doing with this thread... trying to find a way to explore this without the consequences.

What do you think her reaction would generally be? (You don't need to tell us, just make sure you're being as realistic with yourself as possible.)
Weigh that against the joy you might, but so far have not, feel in a sexual tryst with another man.

I think I said it before, but I'll say it again... I truly wish you the best in making the right decision for yourself.
I do not envy the thought of having such a thing on my mind.

Heebie

cgcsb wrote:

A lot of older gay men are into that sort of thing, I think it's purely psychological, they know they're hiding something from general society and they feel like that something they're hiding needs physical form, but still to be hidden from public.

I don't know any. most of the Cross-dressers I know were interested in it starting in their single-digit years.

cgcsb wrote:

He's in his 60s. The curiosity stage of his psycho sexual development ended almost half a century ago.

NOT!!! If you lose curiosity about sex you're doing sex wrong !

locohobo

ArthurorMartha wrote: »

Thank you, because they feel good, not for sexual gratification, at work under my clothing, I don't know were it comes from and tried, for many years to ignore, the gay side is as a bottom but again it would require deep feeling for somebody tried the casual thing and nothing there for me.

Thank you for getting back Op...
Now at this point I will ignore all the other comments and address the Op..(am not always the best at putting my thoughts into words but will give a try)..

First off, I really can familiarise with where you are at but will not go into reasons why on an open forum..

Going to stray off the well beaten paths of psychology/Homosexuality/Bi sexuality/Male menopause....While they can be attributed to a lot of confused feelings in both male and female they cannot define carte blanc each and every individual feeling of each and every person...Why!...because they ignore or do not take the spiritual aspect of the individual into the equation...
Yes! the spiritual aspect ( as in you're inner self/you're higher self/you're soul self) of a person is as real as any other physical aspect but because it is outside of the five sense definition pattern we as humans define all of our lives by it is too readily discounted..

Let me try put this briefly (which will be difficult)....The soul is of neutral/neither gender but is capable of merging with either gender for its purpose in this world/life...A soul can become contaminated, (as in carry over feelings/memories from a past/parallel life) and when we as humans encounter the effects of this we are unable to understand why we feel this/that way unless we are somewhat aware of our inner/higher/soul self....So to my understanding the feelings you are experiencing could very well be feelings experienced by your soul self as a female in another lifetime,.,...
Now while we as humans generally live our lives in a first sense perspective >>"ME"<< and what I am/do/see/feel/say are all governed by our five sense equations...Sometimes at any stage in our lives we can be confronted with feelings/inclinations that "hold on,I am more than this but just what am I...At this point we now approaching a sense of being multi sensed...We are now going beyond what our five senses are familiar with and into an unknown realm of being multi sensed
All of this may be new ground to you Op but I can recommend some reading material for you that I feel will help you on your path in self discovery....

While looking for some other reference points I've just come across this, Have a look and see if it equates in any way with any of the feelings you may be experiencing.....
https://carteblanche.dstv.com/being-transgender/

Apologies if I have not expressed myself eloquently enough so as to avoid misunderstanding. But as I say I can see where you are coming from....

JackTaylorFan

locohobo wrote: »

Let me try put this briefly (which will be difficult)....The soul is of neutral/neither gender but is capable of merging with either gender for its purpose in this world/life...A soul can become contaminated, (as in carry over feelings/memories from a past/parallel life) and when we as humans encounter the effects of this we are unable to understand why we feel this/that way unless we are somewhat aware of our inner/higher/soul self....So to my understanding the feelings you are experiencing could very well be feelings experienced by your soul self as a female in another lifetime,.,...
Now while we as humans generally live our lives in a first sense perspective >>"ME"<< and what I am/do/see/feel/say are all governed by our five sense equations...Sometimes at any stage in our lives we can be confronted with feelings/inclinations that "hold on,I am more than this but just what am I...At this point we now approaching a sense of being multi sensed...We are now going beyond what our five senses are familiar with and into an unknown realm of being multi sensed
All of this may be new ground to you Op but I can recommend some reading material for you that I feel will help you on your path in self discovery....

I'm sorry, but what in the holy **** was that?

Please stop. You're not doing anyone any good spreading this psychobabble around.

Regards

Science and Humanity

locohobo

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

I'm sorry, but what in the holy **** was that?

Please stop. You're not doing anyone any good spreading this psychobabble around.

Regards

Science and Humanity

and with replies as typical as this, showing some peoples inability/unwillingness to take on board anything outside of what their five senses can perceive I will continue to ignore them....

JackTaylorFan

locohobo wrote: »

and with replies as typical as this, showing some peoples inability/unwillingness to take on board anything outside of what their five senses can perceive I will continue to ignore them....

No, mate. What you're posting is dangerous and unhelpful.

Cheers.

baby and crumble

I'm just going to quietly pop in here and just remind folks to be polite to everyone before anything gets out of hand.

Also I hope Locohobo you aren't suggesting that people are gay or trans because they were the 'other sex' in a past life, because that's incredibly unhelful.

locohobo

[Spam removed]

locohobo

@ baby and crumble...
I replied to statement/question But I see my reply has been removed. If my reply was deemed as spam by someone incabable of understanding or reluctant to take on board its significance then what is the point in my continuing to post on this matter.
Throughout this thread I've only posted as I felt that I could offer some guidance to the Op albeit in a way that some people are reluctant to, or just cannot take on board.
As I am not being allowed to express and defend my way of thinking then I will not continue to post on this thread....
Will finish by wishing the Op successful and fruitful completion in his quest of self enlightenment...

Regds..
locohobo

ArthurorMartha

locohobo wrote: »

Yes igCorcaigh it is a hard question but as you said.."Get to know yourself" and that is why the Op is posting here, to seek avenues of help in reaching that realisation. There is no doubt that the Op cares deeply for the people in his life, but for his life to be complete I feel he would love to understand why he has these feelings...


I lot of other posts since my last post, am not ignoring them but am pushed for time right now and would also prefer to wait until the Op revisits this thread to reply to the input rather than continue second guessing....

I feel he would love to understand why he has these feelings,
That was my initial reason for finding this site, and many thanks for your insight,Op

locohobo

ArthurorMartha wrote: »

I feel he would love to understand why he has these feelings,
That was my initial reason for finding this site, and many thanks for your insight,Op

Thank you for you're PM...I have replied. Please confirm if you have received my reply..

AllForIt

I always found listening to a bitta Shirley will put your right as rain.

Heebie

AllForIt wrote:

I always found listening to a bitta Shirley will put your right as rain.

Not that anyone needs a reason to listen to that damn Shirley Bassey!
It's Dame, not damn?
Well, damn! =D