New insurance, penalty points

LirW

Okay, here's my dilemma:
I have a until the end of the month left on the insurance policy for the car, it's insured in my partner's name on a Learner's permit. Because the car is bigger and I now hold an Irish license it makes a lot more sense that I take a new policy out (the renewal for him is crazy high).

The thing is though that on Saturday I was caught speeding, doing 71 in a 60. Don't get me wrong, I am mortified, I fully accept what I did, completely my fault. It puts me in a difficult position now when taking a policy out because I got my letter for the fine today. Officially I'm not informed of any penalty points yet, I want to sort insurance out over the weekend, so what do I do when I'm asked for penalties? Chances are the points aren't on my license when I renew but I wanna stay truthful, never mess with the insurance after all.
I have no previous penalties.

CeilingFly

You need to disclose them, but one set of points won't make a huge difference.

BTW -AIG insurance and adding your partner can bring a large premium reduction.

Also beware on new laws coming for learner permit (possibly from June) - drive without a full licence driver beside you and your car will be impounded + heavy fine and points.

LirW

We're very law abiding people, that's why I'm so incredibly mortified because I wasn't paying 100% attention when I should have (I thought I was in a 80-zone already after a village but it was 60 only and did 71). So I'd never ever let him drive on his own on his learner permit.
I'll ring around the insurance companies anyway, so best bet would be to simply tell them I have the letter but no notification of points yet?
I've read that most companies ignore up to 4 points, is this true?

Zatoichi

Liberty charged me €200 for my 3 points for speeding.

NUTLEY BOY

LirW wrote: »

SNIP so best bet would be to simply tell them I have the letter but no notification of points yet? I've read that most companies ignore up to 4 points, is this true?

Strictly speaking it is the only bet !

You are now in possession of what an insurance underwriter would probably term a material fact. If you fail to disclose this you risk invalidating the policy as well as committing an offence.

I do not know what insurers will disregard in terms of penalty points. I suspect it might vary as between companies. It might also vary over time as individual insurers can change criteria. Shopping around is the only answer to this.

thebiglad

You need to look at the question asked by the insurer.

If they ask 'do you have any points or motoring convictions' you can honestly answer No

Until you receive the fixed penalty notice and either accept the points or, challenge it in court and are either given points or not you do not have points or conviction.

if you do return the fixed penalty notice (which you have 28 days to do) the points apply from the date you pay, not the date of the offence and so this could be after renewal or inception anyhow so you only need to declare next year.

There are currently no points on your driving record even though you have been stopped.

NUTLEY BOY

thebiglad wrote: »

You need to look at the question asked by the insurer.

If they ask 'do you have any points or motoring convictions' you can honestly answer No

Until you receive the fixed penalty notice and either accept the points or, challenge it in court and are either given points or not you do not have points or conviction.

if you do return the fixed penalty notice (which you have 28 days to do) the points apply from the date you pay, not the date of the offence and so this could be after renewal or inception anyhow so you only need to declare next year.

There are currently no points on your driving record even though you have been stopped.

Ice. Thin. Skating.

Sensu stricto you are quite correct. However, my point is that OP is in possession of a material fact which would fall within the general duty of disclosure which applies to contracts written uberrima fides as would be the case here. For that reason I would not recommend failing to disclose.

A fortiori, the OP has indicated that the offence was committed and that there is no answer to it.

That said, the underwriters could follow your exact argument and not apply terms either at all or yet. In the latter context they could choose not to apply any terms until next renewal (if there are any to be imposed for 3 (?) points). OP keeps on the right side by disclosing.

LirW

I'd not try to fool an insurance really, it is tough enough as it is and it's gonna be a struggle already to pay for the ridiculous quotes I was given before that happened. I won't be challenging the points, there isn't much to challenge, I messed up and really regret not taking better care when I'm usually a very careful and law-abiding driver.
Can only bite the bullet now and hope some company will give me a somewhat acceptable quote.

NUTLEY BOY

LirW wrote: »

I'd not try to fool an insurance really, it is tough enough as it is and it's gonna be a struggle already to pay for the ridiculous quotes I was given before that happened. I won't be challenging the points, there isn't much to challenge, I messed up and really regret not taking better care when I'm usually a very careful and law-abiding driver.
Can only bite the bullet now and hope some company will give me a somewhat acceptable quote.

Don't beat yourself up over this. We all make mistakes for which we could cheerfully kick ourselves afterwards :rolleyes:

Press on with shopping around. If you are lucky it might not prove to be any worse in the end if the underwriters are not going to impose terms for the 3 points that will be arriving.

LirW

So after calling a few insurance companies, different companies handle the situation differently. Some want you to inform them once you have the points and they amend the policy then, others ignore it for this year and add it on from the next year. They can't add it on straight away since you don't have them officially, but when I told them the situation they informed me what the course of action would be.

Yakuza

thebiglad wrote: »

You need to look at the question asked by the insurer.

If they ask 'do you have any points or motoring convictions' you can honestly answer No
There are currently no points on your driving record even though you have been stopped.

Yes, OP, look at the proposal form.

I'm with Aviva, and theirs states "c) any convictions, offences or prosecutions pending of any nature (for example, but not limited to, fraud, theft, handling stolen goods, driving convictions, penalty points or driving disqualifications)*" so you'd have no choice in that case. I'm pretty sure with them, two points won't materially affect the quote (but don't quote me on that!).

You'll have the points applied at some point, so you will have them on your record for three renewals. Whether it's this one and the next two or not this one and the following three will probably depend on the wording of the proposal form. Generally speaking it's best to mention it as if you didn't and you did have an accident, they could use it to cancel your policy and refute/repudiate your claim (and then you'd be, frankly, screwed - potentially prosecuted for not having insurance and being personally liable for any claim against you).

LirW

I know they'll be applied at some point, at the moment I simply care about the best quote in relation to that and my car's age. Unfortunately I have everything coming right now at the same time, car broke just before the renewal and needed replacement and the saved money for our full year insurance was our car's budget, really annoying.
The AA seems to give me the best quote, it's still pretty high, but that's what it is, I need insurance and every euro counts.

tcawley29

Technically you don't have any points until the fine is paid. I'd get the policy asap without points and pay your fine on the last day. Then you will have an insurance policy before the points are applied.

_Brian

tcawley29 wrote: »

Technically you don't have any points until the fine is paid. I'd get the policy asap without points and pay your fine on the last day. Then you will have an insurance policy before the points are applied.

If the renewal asks to disclose pending incidents this could be seen as a reason to void the insurance should it be found.

tcawley29

_Brian wrote: »

If the renewal asks to disclose pending incidents this could be seen as a reason to void the insurance should it be found.

Been a while since I've had a policy but I don't ever recall being asked about pending incidents

LirW

_Brian wrote: »

If the renewal asks to disclose pending incidents this could be seen as a reason to void the insurance should it be found.

I got insurance yesterday and the way most companies seem to handle it that they can't add penalty points that aren't there yet. I told them what happened and they said I need to ring them once I officially got them.

lardzeppelin

Hi, I incurred 1 penalty point for knowingly turning right to take a short cut through town a while back... Come insurance renewal time, I declared my wrong doing to the broker (and we both had a little laugh over it), my penalty was 9 euro excess on a 500 tpft policy... Honesty is the best policy when you're dealing with insurance companies...