"Free Range Parenting"

ceadaoin.

Ok so it's just in Utah in the US. They have had to pass a law specifically legalising this style of parenting due to the number of people being reported and investigated by social services for such things as letting their kids go to the park or walk to school on their own. For most of us growing up in the 80s and 90s this type of parenting was the norm, we would basically be outside all day in the summer and before the advent of mobile phones our parents wouldn't have much idea where we were at all.

Has the way we raise kids gone wrong somehow? Kids are spending more and more time indoors and don't get much independence at all nowadays. I admit myself that when I saw a child in the park who appeared to be on his own with no adults present I felt a little concerned even though he was fine. What will the long term effects be on this generation, if any, of being raised this way? Definitely less fit, I think that can be seen already and it seems like a lot of kids are less able to entertain themselves these days than previous generations. What will they be like as adults?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/utahs-free-range-parenting-law-gives-kids-more-freedom/

Mr. Incognito

Slow news day.

kunst nugget

How am I going to be able to use this thread to give out about immigrants, Muslims and/or women?

Harry Palmr

Childhood is being infantilised

Overheal

Yeah I thought it was an Onion piece when I read it. But in the last generation there’s been a loss of neighborhood culture in the US, supplanted by worries that you live around a bunch of child predators and drug lords. People were getting their kids being placed in protective custody for being forced to spend time outside in the open air. It is a sad commentary on the slip of things. Only been made worse by the internet tbh, great for many things but we’re now all so used to going indoors and logging on for the big wide world safe behind a firewall and a locked door that people have lost so much of their ‘street smarts’ that kids playing in the street are seen as victims of neglect.

ceadaoin.

Overheal wrote: »

Yeah I thought it was an Onion piece when I read it. But in the last generation there’s been a loss of neighborhood culture in the US, supplanted by worries that you live around a bunch of child predators and drug lords. People were getting their kids being placed in protective custody for being forced to spend time outside in the open air. It is a sad commentary on the slip of things. Only been made worse by the internet tbh, great for many things but we’re now all so used to going indoors and logging on for the big wide world safe behind a firewall and a locked door that people have lost so much of their ‘street smarts’ that kids playing in the street are seen as victims of neglect.

I find it strange how I read so many stories of parents being investigated for letting their kids play outside but when there is an actual case of severe neglect and abuse often no one says anything even though there were suspicions.

ceadaoin.

kunst nugget wrote: »

How am I going to be able to use this thread to give out about immigrants, Muslims and/or women?

Well you know any parenting mistakes are usually the mothers fault so there always that

PARlance

Are they tastier than normal children?

Ipso

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I find it strange how I read so many stories of parents being investigated for letting their kids play outside but when there is an actual case of severe neglect and abuse often no one says anything even though there were suspicions.

So much seems to be driven by worse case scenario/lowest common denominator these days.
Some sad bastrd makes a complaint of neglect (which is just kids playing outside), as it's labeled neglect it has to be looked into and then it devolves into "kids walking to school" is now neglect.
Also back in the day I never wore a helmet while riding a bike and car seats for young children were not common, but these days they are common and not having them is considered unsafe/neglect.

Harry Palmr

OSI wrote: »

Given the endemic levels of child abuse in this country in the past, perhaps parents could have done with a bit more of an "idea" where their children were?

At school, in church?

hatrickpatrick

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I find it strange how I read so many stories of parents being investigated for letting their kids play outside but when there is an actual case of severe neglect and abuse often no one says anything even though there were suspicions.

I'd imagine this is because it's so much easier to fine / charge people for the former, so it looks better on the statistics and it nets the state some easy cash. Investigating genuine cases of neglect requires actual effort and detective work, busting someone because their kid walked up to the cinema after dark only takes one douchebag with a notebook.

qwerty ui op

When you take into account the war, murder, rape, genocide, physical and sexual abuse, greed, corruption, slavery, racism that has been going on for hundreds/thousands of years, it's not like the parenting has been going well thus far.

ceadaoin.

OSI wrote: »

Given the endemic levels of child abuse in this country in the past, perhaps parents could have done with a bit more of an "idea" where their children were?

Maybe, but most child abuse is perpetrated by a family member or other trusted adult so it probably wouldn't have made much difference.

Gatling

Seen it yesterday where a group of kids couldn't grasp the idea of playing a game involving a catching a tennis ball ,
It's a shame to see so few kids outside and enjoying life rather than locked in for their protection .

Harry Palmr

Hand - eye coordination is grand but only when sitting down.

McMurphy

Gatling wrote: »

Seen it yesterday where a group of kids couldn't grasp the idea of playing a game involving a catching a tennis ball ,
It's a shame to see so few kids outside and enjoying life rather than locked in for their protection .

For sure.

Kids nowadays.....

When I was a kid, specifically around the early to mid teens I was an expert at grasping balls. Usually while looking in the lingerie section of my mum's Littlewoods catalogue.

For years, I've taught Vietnamese children who aren't allowed to leave the house, and it isn't a good thing.

I can now add the fact that I was allowed to roam free to the list of reasons I was born at the absolute pinnacle of human civilisation.

No kids for me in the future for reasons, and I'm in no way bothered about it.

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

For years, I've taught Vietnamese children who aren't allowed to leave the house, and it isn't a good thing.

I can now add the fact that I was allowed to roam free to the list of reasons I was born at the absolute pinnacle of human civilisation.

No kids for me in the future for reasons, and I'm in no way bothered about it.

Ah but you would raise them well...

BuboBubo

PARlance wrote: »

Are they tastier than normal children?

Yep.

And waaaayyy cheaper than organic ones.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

Ah but you would raise them well...

I'd raise them to hate stalkers.

Poor Uncle Tom

qwerty ui op wrote: »

When you take into account the war, murder, rape, genocide, physical and sexual abuse, greed, corruption, slavery, racism that has been going on for hundreds/thousands of years, it's not like the parenting has been going well thus far.

Are those mandatory parenting classes?........:rolleyes:

super_furry

PARlance wrote: »

Are they tastier than normal children?

Nah, you're looking for corn-feed children for that.

seamus

That's America.

Siege mentality tells them that the world outside is dangerous and scary. Thus when they see children wandering around outside without a parent, American culture tells you that they're in danger, so people call the cops.

I saw a documentary once where a woman's neighbours made a complaint because always she let her 8 year old son walk on his own to the bus stop to get the school bus. The fncking thing was at the end of the road and in full view of her front window. Americans be cray cray.

It's just not a thing here in Ireland. Once they're five or six, they can leg it outside to play with their mates, just stay off the road and stay within view of the house.

Your Face

It'll be fine.

qwerty ui op

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Are those mandatory parenting classes?........:rolleyes:

No, but it's the result of parenting and has been the result for a long long time.

Fair enough, the more everyday results of parenting are along the lines of

Anxiety, depression, suicide, alcohol addiction, drug addiction, online/screen addiction, gambling addiction, bullying, online bullying.

Prostitution, human trafficking, exploitation, porn, child porn

Environmental issues

Animal welfare issues

massive inequality

I'd say, "I blame the parents" but the thing is we haven't a clue now, or ever how to be good parents we're only deluding ourselves.
The kids can be carried around in the SUV's to yoga and soccer all day long, but society is as it is, and won't be changing anytime soon. So all the baby wipes and after school activities won't make **** of difference.

Chances are they'll grow up with a lot of negative feelings, may develop some form of addiction, will bully and or be bullied, get bored with porn and pay for sex, continue ****ing up the environment just like their mom & dad and eat other animals without a clue how it got to their plate.

Indoor V Outdoor, who gives a fuchk.

ceadaoin.

qwerty ui op wrote: »

No, but it's the result of parenting and has been the result for a long long time.

Fair enough, the more everyday results of parenting are along the lines of

Anxiety, depression, suicide, alcohol addiction, drug addiction, online/screen addiction, gambling addiction, bullying, online bullying.

Prostitution, human trafficking, exploitation, porn, child porn

Environmental issues

Animal welfare issues

massive inequality

I'd say, "I blame the parents" but the thing is we haven't a clue now, or ever how to be good parents we're only deluding ourselves.
The kids can be carried around in the SUV's to yoga and soccer all day long, but society is as it is, and won't be changing anytime soon. So all the baby wipes and after school activities won't make **** of difference.

Chances are they'll grow up with a lot of negative feelings, may develop some form of addiction, will bully and or be bullied, get bored with porn and pay for sex, continue ****ing up the environment just like their mom & dad and eat other animals without a clue how it got to their plate.

Indoor V Outdoor, who gives a fuchk.

Wow, you have such a positive outlook on life :eek:

DEFTLEFTHAND

seamus wrote: »

That's America.

Siege mentality tells them that the world outside is dangerous and scary. Thus when they see children wandering around outside without a parent, American culture tells you that they're in danger, so people call the cops.

I saw a documentary once where a woman's neighbours made a complaint because always she let her 8 year old son walk on his own to the bus stop to get the school bus. The fncking thing was at the end of the road and in full view of her front window. Americans be cray cray.

It's just not a thing here in Ireland. Once they're five or six, they can leg it outside to play with their mates, just stay off the road and stay within view of the house.

Must be only a recent thing. America was never like that in the past.

It has also definitely creeped into Ireland, I see it all the time. Parents molly coddling and smothering their children well into the teens.

Poor Uncle Tom

qwerty ui op wrote: »

No, but it's the result of parenting and has been the result for a long long time.

Fair enough, the more everyday results of parenting are along the lines of

Anxiety, depression, suicide, alcohol addiction, drug addiction, online/screen addiction, gambling addiction, bullying, online bullying.

Prostitution, human trafficking, exploitation, porn, child porn

Environmental issues

Animal welfare issues

massive inequality

I'd say, "I blame the parents" but the thing is we haven't a clue now, or ever how to be good parents we're only deluding ourselves.
The kids can be carried around in the SUV's to yoga and soccer all day long, but society is as it is, and won't be changing anytime soon. So all the baby wipes and after school activities won't make **** of difference.

Chances are they'll grow up with a lot of negative feelings, may develop some form of addiction, will bully and or be bullied, get bored with porn and pay for sex, continue ****ing up the environment just like their mom & dad and eat other animals without a clue how it got to their plate.

Indoor V Outdoor, who gives a fuchk.

In my opinion that's the exception not the rule and by a long shot in this case. I suppose every school shoot up can be blamed on a parental smack as well. Society has as much to answer as any parent in my opinion, but that counts for little as I'm only a parent, right?

Graces7

Ipso wrote: »

So much seems to be driven by worse case scenario/lowest common denominator these days.
Some sad bastrd makes a complaint of neglect (which is just kids playing outside), as it's labeled neglect it has to be looked into and then it devolves into "kids walking to school" is now neglect.
Also back in the day I never wore a helmet while riding a bike and car seats for young children were not common, but these days they are common and not having them is considered unsafe/neglect.

I think the cycle helmet thing is simply common sense not in the same class as the rest,

qwerty ui op

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

In my opinion that's the exception not the rule and by a long shot in this case. I suppose every school shoot up can be blamed on a parental smack as well. Society has as much to answer as any parent in my opinion, but that counts for little as I'm only a parent, right?

I don't know what's to blame for school shoot-ups or familicide, I'd say these acts are the exception, and suicide even less so.(It's common for an irish family to be effected by suicide).
There must be many who wanted to drive their car into a crowd or start firing into crowds but didn't go through with it and just killed themselves, and I'd imagine for every suicide many more wanted to end their own life but didn't go through with it but it's a fairly strong indication of the amount of negative feelings people have.
If the aim is to have happy children most aren't even breaking even.


How are you making the separation between parents and society, the parent child relationship is very much a part of society.

andekwarhola

My kids pretty much have a similar childhood as I did, albeit maybe not as much freedom to range as far away from home as I did.

In the spring and summer, my kids play out in the estate as much as they possibly can in daylight, as do the kids of most people I know.

All this kids 'indoors unlike my day' guff seems as much anecdotal (for the purposes of 'in my day' riffs) as statistical.

qwerty ui op

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Wow, you have such a positive outlook on life :eek:

Your average 40 year old man today would have had access to and played plenty video games as a child.
He would probably got a mobile phone at 16 or 17 along with his friends.

He would be able go online at school/college/internet cafe a year or two later.

Good chance he had internet connection in his home by mid twenties.

Many people I know in their 80's didn't have electricity in their house until they were adults.
Do you honestly think you've seen changes!

Jeju

andekwarhola wrote:

In the spring and summer, my kids play out in the estate as much as they possibly can in daylight, as do the kids of most people I know.

Same as, out all day when not raining which is actually most of the time in summer, in winter the green is boggy but they still go out when dry. Actually they ditch the tablet when the weather is good and their friends are about.

whisky_galore

Ipso wrote: »

Also back in the day I never wore a helmet while riding a bike and car seats for young children were not common, but these days they are common and not having them is considered unsafe/neglect.

Car seats are common because they're a legal requirement now.

Far more cars on the road now, going at higher speeds too.

seamus

Ipso wrote: »

Also back in the day I never wore a helmet while riding a bike and car seats for young children were not common, but these days they are common and not having them is considered unsafe/neglect.

This is called "survivorship bias".

That is, "My granny smoked 60 a day and lived to 90", or, "Nobody ever wore seatbelts back in the day and look at me, I'm grand".

They're anecdotes told from the perspective of a statistical outsider. Those who didn't survive, aren't around to tell their tale. So you get the faux appearance that because everyone who is alive, survived, then there was no danger.

Imagine walking out from a burning building and saying, "The building was on fire but I'm grand, therefore the fire wasn't dangerous".

It's a frequent fallacy used by people who believe that the world is overprotective, but realistically 99% of the safety equipment we use, is there because it's necessary.

CrankyHaus

They're way ahead of the curve on this Free Range Parenting in some of the rougher suburbs of Dublin.

Cycling through West Finglas I've seen children who couldn't be older then 6 shooting firework rockets down the street and children only a little older doing wheelies down the middle of the road on scramblers, with no helmets or any other protective gear. Kudos to their progressive parents for not wrapping them in cotton wool and letting them play outdoors.

sbsquarepants

I pretty much ran wild as a kid (and as an adult!) I'd leave my house in the morning and come back for dinner in the evening, often walking up the mountains with my friends (lived in tallaght -regularly went to the hell fire club and surrounding forests at maybe 10 or 11 years old)

I try to give my kids as much freedom as possible but I think I'd have a heart attack if they done anything like that.

I live in a very quite estate now in Kildare and the kids play out on the road all they want, they're 5, 3 and 2. There's no through road and the only cars that come down are people who live there. I'm there about a year having moved from Tallaght - I would have been very nervous letting them out there due to the number of assholes thinking they were Lewis Hamilton or flying around on quads and dirt bikes. (seriously what kind of fúck wit lets their kid out on a motorbike / quad in a housing estate)

Being molly coddled does nobody any favours in the long run though.