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Restoration project and VRT

  • 09-05-2018 4:46pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭ selfdiy


    Apologies if this has been asked in the past.

    Seven years ago I bought an early 70s Mercedes for parts, it was a complete car but engine was seized for many years. I planned to use it to keep my other Mercedes on the road.

    But I've been thinking lately that it could be restored. I have the v5 for it, I've no idea when it was brought into Ireland, I assume sometime in the early 2000's.

    My question is if this car is likely to incur penalties and fines if I bring it to be VRT'd.

    Reading this from the vrt manual

    (d) is capable of achieving vehicle propulsion at the time of registration or at the time
    of examination by a competent person under section 135D(1)(d), to the satisfaction
    of the Commissioners

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-manual-section-01.pdf

    It would seem that it can't be vrt'd until it can move under its own steam.

    If someone turns up at the vrt centre and states that only this week is the car able to drive on it own, can they circumvent late penalties and fees?

    This car hasn't been insured or driven in at-least 15 years i'd say.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭ supervento


    So it’s all running and u want to register it now...

    What’s to say u didn’t buy it in the north??? (Last week)
    Wink wink


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,482 ✭✭✭ wexie


    I looked into this a while ago and stopped after bashing my head against the wall of bureaucracy.

    From what I remember there is legally no way to import and register a car that can't be presented at the VRT office running under it's own power.

    So it's a case of : you can't VRT it when you bring it in but then when you eventually (after having spent the time and money) bring it to be VRT you'll be done over for not having done it way back when, when you couldn't have because it wasn't moving under it's own power :confused:

    Maybe something has changed in the meantime but if it hasn't then the system is screwed and illogical

    (or the lady I spoke to just told me a load of bollix, I guess there is that option)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,482 ✭✭✭ wexie


    selfdiy wrote: »
    If someone turns up at the vrt centre and states that only this week is the car able to drive on it own, can they circumvent late penalties and fees?

    Of course the other option is if you know anybody in the transport industry who's willing to put in writing that the car came off the ferry just 'tother day....


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭ w124man


    Pop it on a trailer and present it for VRT. Give them all the details, VIN, reg number, the lot. They will refuse it but it will be on the database from there on as being a box of bits and not fit for VRT. Then you can restore at your leisure .....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,482 ✭✭✭ wexie


    w124man wrote: »
    Pop it on a trailer and present it for VRT. Give them all the details, VIN, reg number, the lot. They will refuse it but it will be on the database from there on as being a box of bits and not fit for VRT. Then you can restore at your leisure .....

    Does that work? I proposed to do that at the time and was told I couldn't?

    And then what happens when you eventually bring it to be registered?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭ w124man


    wexie wrote: »
    I proposed to do that at the time and was told I couldn't?


    They cant stop you doing it and they cant stop you giving the details to them and once they have them, they have them!


  • Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭ selfdiy


    supervento wrote: »
    So it’s all running and u want to register it now...

    What’s to say u didn’t buy it in the north??? (Last week)
    Wink wink

    Its not running at the moment, I don't want to start restoring it until I'm sure I can register it without some large penalty or fine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭ selfdiy


    w124man wrote: »
    Pop it on a trailer and present it for VRT. Give them all the details, VIN, reg number, the lot. They will refuse it but it will be on the database from there on as being a box of bits and not fit for VRT. Then you can restore at your leisure .....

    Thank you for the idea, have you done this before?

    If it would work that would give piece of mind before I spend a bunch getting it up and running.

    If you turn up and they somehow figure out its been in the country for many years, though its not been on the road, do you have to pay the outstanding vrt or can you opt to just keep it for parts and not register.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,902 ✭✭✭ Bigus


    Revenue, are really only concerned about income to them.

    The revenue income on a classic is 200 vrt euro max .

    So The potential loss of revenue is a fraction of 200 euro or by the same matter the potential penalties are a small percentage of 200 euro.

    In other words there's no big stroke or potential stroke/tax evasion on classic car fraud so they don't give a monkeys as its not a big earner for revenue so therefore , problems tend not to arise once you present the car in the correct fashion at the time of inspection, plus you have the leeway to export it back to Uk (Newry) if it all goes pear shaped with no penalties, and re import at a later date.

    Edit;Brexit may alter this significantly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    selfdiy wrote: »
    Thank you for the idea, have you done this before?

    If it would work that would give piece of mind before I spend a bunch getting it up and running.

    If you turn up and they somehow figure out its been in the country for many years, though its not been on the road, do you have to pay the outstanding vrt or can you opt to just keep it for parts and not register.

    That would only be of use when the vehicle is first imported and doesn't help your problem. VRT is payable on import and will be backdated to that date unless it can be shown that the newly restored car has just been purchased (heavy hint). If you present it as suggested, then the clock will start ticking and the VRT may still be back-dated.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭ selfdiy


    Isambard wrote: »
    That would only be of use when the vehicle is first imported and doesn't help your problem. VRT is payable on import and will be backdated to that date unless it can be shown that the newly restored car has just been purchased (heavy hint). If you present it as suggested, then the clock will start ticking and the VRT may still be back-dated.

    I understand exactly what you are saying and its the way togo for sure.

    But could a person reasonably argue if the vrt inspector was able to prove when a vehicle entered the state that the reason it wasn't registered for vrt is that it did meet the "capable of achieving vehicle propulsion at the time of registration" rule.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ Isambard


    you should be able to do that, but I don't fancy the chances. I'd imagine they'd just ask for proof that it wasn't "capable of achieving vehicle propulsion at the time of registration" when imported and I can't see how you could do that. Faulty half-arsed system as per usual


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭ freddyuk


    I am in the same boat. I decided to do the rebuild and then trailer it off to UK and then re import and have proof of this in ferry ticket and photo. No one checks at the port.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭ Silvera


    Or you could have imported it from N.I a week beforehand ��


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭ freddyuk


    I could and possibly will but it is a long way off as this is a complete restoration job. Regs could change I guess before I finish it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭ vjmcdonnell


    Silvera wrote: »
    Or you could have imported it from N.I a week beforehand ��

    How would you 'prove' when the car came down south. Say if imported from Scotland but not taken south yet?


  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭ vjmcdonnell


    How would you 'prove' when the car came down south. Say if imported from Scotland but not taken south yet?

    * Asking for a friend


  • Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭✭ JCW


    I have spoken on the phone to a customs agent, a VRT inspector and the NCT/VRT office in the past two days as I am in a similar but quite different situation.

    I asked what are the penalties for exceeding the 30 days stipulated? 0.01% of VRT fixed charge per day.

    I asked if it was true that a vehicle cannot be presented to the vrt without being mechanically driven he said that is correct, it is not considered a vehicle until it moves under its own power.

    They suggested to supply the vrt with proof/receipts of work being carried out when presenting the car to the nct/vrt they also said if I was doing the work myself I could write and sign a letter myself stating the dates and work carried out, I think it would be wise to supplement that with receipts for parts and pictures.

    Some more background on my situation if interested.

    I won a car in a raffle on Facebook, it is on English plates however when I collected it and brought it home and began to inspect it I found quite a few severe cases of rot and decided to purchase another shell, I found a complete car without an engine or gearbox also on English plates this was the car I inquired about to the VRT and as it had no engine or gearbox it is not considered a vehicle and cant be presented to vrt.

    It will be August before this car sees the road so I will let you know if I still get penalties although in my case that works out at 5c a day :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭ selfdiy


    JCW wrote: »

    It will be August before this car sees the road so I will let you know if I still get penalties although in my case that works out at 5c a day :D

    Thank you very much for sharing the information.
    Do let us know how it goes in August.


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