Dole for my Mam?

never_mind

Hi all

sorry, we are in a bit of a pickle so wondering if someone can help.

My mam and dad separated a few years ago and both are 60. They would have been well off but Dad's company went belly up during the recession so are grand but not earning. Dad was paying my Mam around 2400 in maintenance a month which he has now stopped and has cut it substantially - prob 200 a week now. She doesn't work and can't due to a bad back and can't go back to work.

I'm wondering would she be entitled to anything before the pension? She has 100k+ in the bank and no mortgage. She is in a grand position compared to a lot of people, I realise that, but she is panicking as savings disappear quickly as we all know even when budgeting. I wonder would the dole be an option??

Anyone have any ideas? Again we know she's in a great position but anything would help her in the short term.

frash

To get the dole you need to be able to work & looking for work but you've said "She doesn't work and can't due to a bad back and can't go back to work."

Maybe look into disability allowance?

myshirt

The short answer is no, even for disability allowance.

She has 100k, that's the killer here.

Separately, 100k is a large chunk of change to have on deposit. She needs to put that money to work for her and make it sweat. Go get some financial advice. If she has a low risk appetite, she could get 2-2.5k a year off that and still have her 100k. If she is medium risk appetite, she could get 6-8k, and about 12-15k or better for high risk.

Best of luck.

never_mind

Thanks both I will have a chat with her tonight and see if she has thought about investments.

Kevwoody

Surely this is a wind up?

never_mind

Kevwoody wrote: »

Surely this is a wind up?

Yes this is a wind up.

unreg999

Plus the 200e per week she is getting from your dad is more or less the same as what someone on the dole would get so I really don't understand where you're coming from...
That would have to be declared as would the 100k
I don't think your Mam needs or is entitled to social welfare at all, maybe some help with adjusting her lifestyle to suit her pocket or better budgeting skills would serve her better OP
There are people out there with genuine need who are in dire circumstances and don't know how they are going to feed their children, people living on the streets and OAPs dying of the cold ffs

never_mind

unreg999 wrote: »

Plus the 200e per week she is getting from your dad is more or less the same as what someone on the dole would get so I really don't understand where you're coming from...
That would have to be declared as would the 100k
I don't think your Mam needs or is entitled to social welfare at all, maybe some help with adjusting her lifestyle to suit her pocket or better budgeting skills would serve her better OP
There are people out there with genuine need who are in dire circumstances and don't know how they are going to feed their children, people living on the streets and OAPs dying of the cold ffs

I was just waiting for this kind of judgmental comment! Truly inspirational and so helpful.

As I said TWICE above I know that she is in a good position and she knows that as well but she has outgoings and can't work. If something happened in the morning and she needed cash she can get it she knows that but in f'king fairness a single woman who can't work and is 6 years off retirement with no way to get an income would make a person anxious and this is what is happening so save the soap-boxing for another thread.

Kevwoody

never_mind wrote:

As I said TWICE above I know that she is in a good position and she knows that as well but she has outgoings and can't work. If something happened in the morning and she needed cash she can get it she knows that but in f'king fairness a single woman who can't work and is 6 years off retirement with no way to get an income would make a person anxious and this is what is happening so save the soap-boxing for another thread.

But she does have an income - 200 per week maintenance! She also has 100k to fall back on between now and pension age. She also has her mortgage paid off, so presumably as she lives alone she could sell the house and downsize. Boom there's another 100k plus!
Seems to me that she lived the high life when things were good and just needs to adjust her lifestyle and spending habits now that things have changed.

ace_irl

never_mind wrote: »

I was just waiting for this kind of judgmental comment! Truly inspirational and so helpful.

As I said TWICE above I know that she is in a good position and she knows that as well but she has outgoings and can't work. If something happened in the morning and she needed cash she can get it she knows that but in f'king fairness a single woman who can't work and is 6 years off retirement with no way to get an income would make a person anxious and this is what is happening so save the soap-boxing for another thread.

Realistically if she has 100K saved up and she is still receiving €200 per week, so lets say €800 per month from your farther then she only needs to draw down €1,600 per month from her savings to sustain her current income. If she also has a property mortgage free then she has something she can liquidate should she ever need too.

Based on that, her savings would last her for over 5 years.

She will not qualify for social welfare as she simply does not need it.

If she's really concerned about her income, she could consider renting out a spare room in her home, she can earn up to €14,000 per year tax free by doing this.

Wow this is hard to swallow.

I understand wanting to plan well financially but...looking for social welfare in this position?

That's astonishing.

She lives rent free, receives a weekly stipend from her ex and has 100k in the bank. And owns her own home, presumably worth between 200 and 500k.

You both need an attitude adjustment. I'm staggered.

Why was her maintenance cut?
Was that a formal decision or an arbitrary one?

If she wants to keep her savings and can't work and won't get anything after means testing for disability or dole then she will have to adjust her outgoings to match her income.

CiarraiAbu2

I think you are allowed about 20K in the bank so she won't qualify, even if she had less than this the Social Welfare would be about 230 as your Dad gives her 200 she might have got 10 or 15 a week off them.

On the other hand the 28,800 that she was receiving off your Dad is fully taxable for the last few years, some of it would be tax free if it was the maintenance of a minor.

BarryD2

myshirt wrote: »

Separately, 100k is a large chunk of change to have on deposit. She needs to put that money to work for her and make it sweat. Go get some financial advice. If she has a low risk appetite, she could get 2-2.5k a year off that and still have her 100k. If she is medium risk appetite, she could get 6-8k, and about 12-15k or better for high risk.

Well I hope she doesn't chance your high risk advice. You didn't lose your shirt by any chance But seriously tell us exactly where she's going to 2-2.5K on 100K deposit these days?? That's 2.5%. Most deposit savings (low risk) are small fractions of a per cent interest.

Savers are one of the hidden losers of the recession. The people who kept a nest egg and didn't rely on the taxpaying public to bail them out. They've paid on the double with extra taxes and collapse of interest rates.

Anyway, where can do we get this 2.5%??

hawthorne

never_mind wrote: »

Yes this is a wind up.

In all fairness- your stuff sounds like Leona Helmsley spouting about "only the little people pay taxes".
The party is over and your mam has to face reality like everybody else.
There are people living in cardboard boxes in this country and you pump out stuff like this.
FFS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

never_mind

Kevwoody wrote: »

But she does have an income - 200 per week maintenance! She also has 100k to fall back on between now and pension age. She also has her mortgage paid off, so presumably as she lives alone she could sell the house and downsize. Boom there's another 100k plus!
Seems to me that she lived the high life when things were good and just needs to adjust her lifestyle and spending habits now that things have changed.

Oh please more judgemental tripe. First of all she has already downsized and that's where that 100k came from, second of all she is frugal. What is WORRYING her is that if something happens (like if he decides to not pay her at all) that she will be left with no income at all.

never_mind

hawthorne wrote: »

In all fairness- your stuff sounds like Leona Helmsley spouting about "only the little people pay taxes".
The party is over and your mam has to face reality like everybody else.
There are people living in cardboard boxes in this country and you pump out stuff like this.
FFS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

Jesus christ almighty get over it... my mam worked hard and raised 3 kids and was f'ed over by her partner and is feeling vulnerable. I was wondering if she was entitled to anything between now and retirement THAT IS IT.

MY MOTHER'S FINANCES HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SOCIO-ECONOMIC PROBLEMS OF OTHERS. My father's maintenance could stop at any point and if it goes to the courts she might even lose more savings. She has a disability and cannot work and is wondering what social supports are there should anything happen to her and the money is gone. For example, if she got sick and had to spend a lot of money on health care or home help or if she was to get badly injured and her circumstances changed? Like you do realize that things happen and that 100k is not a huge amount of money can disappear quite fast when sh't hits the fan. This woman isn't a millionaire and did not live the high life... she doesn't smoke, drink, or go on holidays so ye whatever...

Thanks to the posters who actually engaged with the topic at hand. To the other posters, maybe go ridicule bond holders and politicians over in After Hours rather than have a go at someone is trying to look out for their mum - ye bunch of d'cks.

splinter65

Your mam needs to know that if she has still got the 100000 at 66 that it is also going to seriously affect her entitlement to a non-con state pension as it is means tested too.
At that stage your dad would have probably have further drastically reduced his maintenance obligation on the grounds that your mother can look to the State for her “pension”.
She needs to make her life comfortable with the lump sum and not try to hold onto it as it will have to be hugely reduced one way or another before she can get any state allowances.
Any “allowances” are means tested and only awarded if the applicant has a “need”.
Your mother doesn’t have any need at all.
If your mother insists that that is her “rainy day” fund then you can tell her that it’s pretty wet right now, with no break in the down pour forecast.

Edited to add: I see your last post about nursing homes, healthcare etc.
You need to read up about Fair Deal which everyone is entitled to apply for.
It ensures that elderly people don’t need to worry about paying for a nursing home irregardless of means.
Your mam will also qualify for a medical card at 70, and may even qualify for one now ( if she is unwell she should ask to be considered on medical grounds).
Has she applied?
Even if she doesn’t get a medical card she may get a GP Visit Card.
Public healthcare even without HSE cards is quite reasonable.
Max bill in any rolling year when accessing the public system is €800, irregardless of how much or how often you access it.

never_mind

splinter65 wrote: »

Your mam needs to know that if she has still got the 100000 at 66 that it is also going to seriously affect her entitlement to a non-con state pension as it is means tested too.
At that stage your dad would have probably have further drastically reduced his maintenance obligation on the grounds that your mother can look to the State for her “pension”.
She needs to make her life comfortable with the lump sum and not try to hold onto it as it will have to be hugely reduced one way or another before she can get any state allowances.
Any “allowances” are means tested and only awarded if the applicant has a “need”.
Your mother doesn’t have any need at all.
If your mother insists that that is her “rainy day” fund then you can tell her that it’s pretty wet right now, with no break in the down pour forecast.

THIS. Thank you for that and that's exactly the advice we need. Yes it is fairly wet. She is already spending 200 per month and above on treatment for her disability/back and she is dipping into it. I think me and my sisters will step in and help her out if things get really bad but I think she'll be fine until pension age if she is careful.

BarryD2

The 'Fair Deal' will erode her savings annually, most of any pension and a good percentage (I think about 20-30%) of the value of any property. I'm no expert on the SW system, I'd be with your mother in terms of trying to be self reliant. Unfortunately the system often seems to be quite unfair to such people. It'll look after those that do feck all or are flathulach or whatever, but looks blankly on at people who try to pay their way.

never_mind

BarryD2 wrote: »

The 'Fair Deal' will erode her savings annually, most of any pension and a good percentage (I think about 20-30%) of the value of any property. I'm no expert on the SW system, I'd be with your mother in terms of trying to be self reliant. Unfortunately the system often seems to be quite unfair to such people. It'll look after those that do feck all or are flathulach or whatever, but looks blankly on at people who try to pay their way.

She does want to pay her way and apart from children's allowance she has never been on the dole or illness benefit etc. She is panicking in the sense if the money runs out or if the courts decide to take it that she will be left without an income and she can't further downsize (she went from a 4 bed family home to a 2 bed duplex). She is also concerned about living alone and should something happy and she needs to go into a home she might not have the cash - again she wants to keep her savings there and I get that! But this is the rainy day as someone else said.

splinter65

BarryD2 wrote: »

The 'Fair Deal' will erode her savings annually, most of any pension and a good percentage (I think about 20-30%) of the value of any property. I'm no expert on the SW system, I'd be with your mother in terms of trying to be self reliant. Unfortunately the system often seems to be quite unfair to such people. It'll look after those that do feck all or are flathulach or whatever, but looks blankly on at people who try to pay their way.

There is a €36000 disregard on the savings for fair deal. The lean against the family home is 7.5% per year capped at 3 years so 22.5% max.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/nhss/

hawthorne

never_mind wrote: »

Jesus christ almighty get over it... my mam worked hard and raised 3 kids and was f'ed over by her partner and is feeling vulnerable. I was wondering if she was entitled to anything between now and retirement THAT IS IT.

MY MOTHER'S FINANCES HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SOCIO-ECONOMIC PROBLEMS OF OTHERS. My father's maintenance could stop at any point and if it goes to the courts she might even lose more savings. She has a disability and cannot work and is wondering what social supports are there should anything happen to her and the money is gone. For example, if she got sick and had to spend a lot of money on health care or home help or if she was to get badly injured and her circumstances changed? Like you do realize that things happen and that 100k is not a huge amount of money can disappear quite fast when sh't hits the fan. This woman isn't a millionaire and did not live the high life... she doesn't smoke, drink, or go on holidays so ye whatever...

Thanks to the posters who actually engaged with the topic at hand. To the other posters, maybe go ridicule bond holders and politicians over in After Hours rather than have a go at someone is trying to look out for their mum - ye bunch of d'cks.

Look pal...your mother is very well off. She has it better than tens of thousands in this country. She is sitting on a huge pile of money and has an income of 200 euros a week.She owns her own place outright.
Why do you think should she be entiled to more than the ordinary disabled Joe Soap on the street who does not have a single penny, has a place with an overinflated rent and only 198 euros do make ends meet ?
Do you think that person never looks/looked after kids, worked hard or feels no pain in the back ?
Your little princess needs to come down from her high horse and needs to live the same life as the rest of us.
No wonder this country is in such a state !

BarryD2

never_mind wrote: »

She is also concerned about living alone and should something happy and she needs to go into a home she might not have the cash - again she wants to keep her savings there and I get that!

Re nursing home care, the idea behind the 'fair deal' scheme is that it treats all people more or less the same in the sense that they should get a place. However those with more assets like property and savings pay more and those with little or no property and savings pay very little. So from that point of view only, she shouldn't be worried about spending savings. However it's also understandable that she may want to keep these intact as much as possible so as to cover emergency costs etc.

1hnr79jr65

Maybe worth talking to your mother about giving inheratence early to you and your siblings if all are in agreement. If this is somthing which could help retain savings in long term, maybe talk to a solicitor about what legally can be done to spread some of the money out and you and siblings could place it into a high interest savings account incase needed by your mother in future and you can all help out this way.

Also by reducing her savings this way, it may be possible to seek out appropriate entitlements for your mother. Also speak to solicitor about maintence and savings or holdings your father may have if that is a concern.

I am not advocating anything illegal in what i have posted but mearly suggesting possible options a solicitor can legally confirm or reject.

BarryD2

hawthorne wrote: »

Look pal...your mother is very well off. She has it better than tens of thousands in this country. She is sitting on a huge pile of money and has an income of 200 euros a week.She owns her own place outright. Your little princess needs to come down from her high horse and needs to live the same life as the rest of us. No wonder this country is in such a state !

I strongly disagree - the woman is around 60 years of age, she could easily live another 30. She is on a modest income and some savings but 100K is not a lot these days.

The country is where it is because of people like this who've paid their way and are not a drain on the state.

wiggle16

This is ridiculous carry on. The OP is asking a genuine question here, not looking for uninformed, judgemental pontificating or seeking to be told how fortunate their mother is - they'e acknowledged that in the initial post FFS. If you think the question is a wind up, why not just ignore it? Rather than getting your knickers in a twist and having a go at someone who is just asking a question.

It is a genuine question because: suppose the mother's maintenance income is cut entirely. She cannot work. Likely has no PRSI contributions. €100,000 is a lot of money and OP's mother is certainly very lucky but you cannot live on it for the rest of her life if she approximately 60 (based upon OP's info), it won't last. OP is simply asking what options are available to her.

OP, your mother should look into making voluntary contributions of PRSI to the DSFA - this might get her onto the contributory state pension rather than the standard when the time comes. If she is disabled, she might look into a disability allowance - it's up to the DSFA to decide who is entitled to it, not the nation's jumped-up moral tutors on Boards. Jobseekers is off the table since she isn't actively looking for work.

I am not familiar with investing money and so financial advice should be sought professionally in that regard.

As for declaring the money in the bank, if tax was already paid on the maintenance by the mother's ex then it does not need to be declared, as tax would have been paid by the ex if it is not a legally enforceable payment, which it isn't since the ex is deciding to reduce it.

Hope that helps OP, and don't mind the nastiness and bitterness you've been getting here.

X

hawthorne

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Maybe worth talking to your mother about giving inheratence early to you and your siblings if all are in agreement. If this is somthing which could help retain savings in long term, maybe talk to a solicitor about what legally can be done to spread some of the money out and you and siblings could place it into a high interest savings account incase needed by your mother in future and you can all help out this way.

Also by reducing her savings this way, it may be possible to seek out appropriate entitlements for your mother. Also speak to solicitor about maintence and savings or holdings your father may have if that is a concern.

I am not advocating anything illegal in what i have posted but mearly suggesting possible options a solicitor can legally confirm or reject.

This is a bad advice. If she deliberately gets rid of parts of her savings to get her hands on an allowance, she will not get anywhere.
SW wants to look into all bank accounts and will interview her about her present and not so present financial situation. If they smell what was going on, she is quickly out the door again with nothing.
This is a page from the UK about the problem. SW has a similar thing- but I cannot find it at the moment.
http://www.fundingcaring.co.uk/giving-away-assets-to-avoid-paying-for-care.html
It looks like that she wants her cake and eat it !

never_mind

hawthorne wrote: »

Look pal...your mother is very well off. She has it better than tens of thousands in this country. She is sitting on a huge pile of money and has an income of 200 euros a week.She owns her own place outright.
Why do you think should she be entiled to more than the ordinary disabled Joe Soap on the street who does not have a single penny, has a place with an overinflated rent and only 198 euros do make ends meet ?
Do you think that person never looks/looked after kids, worked hard or feels no pain in the back ?
Your little princess needs to come down from her high horse and needs to live the same life as the rest of us.
No wonder this country is in such a state !

IGNORING THIS WEIRDO!

Thanks again to all, we have to sit down and make her out a budget. If he stopped paying (which I feel like will happen within a few months), she will have around 16k a year to live off which is fine obviously but getting very good advice otherwise.

Spanish Eyes

I am no expert in DSP payments to anyone sorry. But look at it another way, apply for disability, the medical card, whatever and see what transpires. You will then know one way or another what her entitlements are. A trip to the nearest Citizens Advice Office would be well worth it too. They know their stuff and have the best of contacts within different departments.

If I were in that situation I would be looking at some way of boosting my tax free income. The best way is to take in a lodger or two, if your mother has the room/s free. The income is tax free up to a certain amount, not sure what that is right at the minute.

I do realise that it is a bit of a change for someone who has lived alone to take in strangers, but there could be a lot of more mature people out there in dire need of a comfy room with like minded people. Lodging is not just for students or those working away from home on temp contracts! Worth looking into.

iamwhoiam

Citizens advice are good for advice about things like voluntary contributions and benifits etc . She can sign on for social welfare credits even if she is not entitled to Job seekers benifit . These credits might stand to her in the future when she applies for a pension

Your mum should decide how much of her savings she will take a month to live on and not use any amount over that

hawthorne

wiggle16 wrote: »

This is ridiculous carry on. The OP is asking a genuine question here, not looking for uninformed, judgemental pontificating or seeking to be told how fortunate their mother is - they'e acknowledged that in the initial post FFS. If you think the question is a wind up, why not just ignore it? Rather than getting your knickers in a twist and having a go at someone who is just asking a question.

It is a genuine question because: suppose the mother's maintenance income is cut entirely. She cannot work. Likely has no PRSI contributions. €100,000 is a lot of money and OP's mother is certainly very lucky but you cannot live on it for the rest of her life if she approximately 60 (based upon OP's info), it won't last. OP is simply asking what options are available to her.

OP, your mother should look into making voluntary contributions of PRSI to the DSFA - this might get her onto the contributory state pension rather than the standard when the time comes. If she is disabled, she might look into a disability allowance - it's up to the DSFA to decide who is entitled to it, not the nation's jumped-up moral tutors on Boards. Jobseekers is off the table since she isn't actively looking for work.

I am not familiar with investing money and so financial advice should be sought professionally in that regard.

As for declaring the money in the bank, if tax was already paid on the maintenance by the mother's ex then it does not need to be declared, as tax would have been paid by the ex if it is not a legally enforceable payment, which it isn't since the ex is deciding to reduce it.

Hope that helps OP, and don't mind the nastiness and bitterness you've been getting here.

X

100000 euros is a lot of money. I'd say the majority of people in this country do not have this sum...plus a paid off house....plus 200 euros a week.
About DA- look at the means test which will be carried out- she is entitled to nothing until she has used up a good bit of her savings.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/disability_and_illness/disability_allowance.html
She had 3 kids. This could get her up to 20 years of PRSI contributions on the new pension system....when she reaches 67.
Voluntary contributions are possible if she fulfills certain conditions:
http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Voluntary-Pay-Related-Social-Insurance-PRSI-Contributions.aspx

AMCCORK

Are your parents separated or divorced ? If separated you should look at any entitlements. if your father owned a business in the boom times chances are that he made significant pension contributions which should not have been lost with the business and your mother would be entitled to a share of those. If your father is in a position to pay maintenance of €2,400 per month is that from a new business or did she get her fair share of assets etc at the separation. Otherwise revisit the separation / divorce agreement there should be something agreeing the maintenance I can't imagine he can just decide what to pay.

hawthorne

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Citizens advice are good for advice about things like voluntary contributions and benifits etc . She can sign on for social welfare credits even if she is not entitled to Job seekers benifit . These credits might stand to her in the future when she applies for a pension

Your mum should decide how much of her savings she will take a month to live on and not use any amount over that

If she has already 20 years of looking after the kids it is useless to sign on for credits. She cannot use them for a pension- only 20 years are allowed between caring/raising kids/dole time.