End of Bermuda Triangle? Government land grab

Heres Johnny

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-private-land-in-towns-and-cities-will-now-be-seized-for-affordable-homes-minister-36868929.html

Private land in towns and cities close to essential services including public transport will be acquired by the State to build affordable homes.
Housing Minister Eoghan Murphy told the National Construction Summit that land used in an "inefficient way" to sell "couches, cars and trucks" could be compulsorily acquired by a new regeneration agency to help boost output.

He cited land around the Naas Road in Dublin, which was within the canals, connected to the M50 and close to the Luas.
"All key pieces of infrastructure, but the lands around it are used in a very inefficient way to sell couches, mattresses, cars and trucks," he said.
"This is a key strategic land bank. If we're going to achieve compact growth, if we're going to take advantage of key pieces of infrastructure and face down climate change, we have to take land like that and repurpose it for homes and work places.

Allinall

They’ll just move to the internet and sell them there.

Dravokivich

How is it inefficient?

68 lost souls

Dravokivich wrote: »

How is it inefficient?

Because of its transport links and geographical use it is better served for use as housing and therefore inefficient if used for commercial sales.

DaveyDave

Will they feck off trying to build housing in every nook and cranny in Dublin? There's 8,000 houses planned to be built up in Clonburris at the back of Lucan. Traffic is already a joke around here, genuinely can't get out if the estate at 8-8:30am because school traffic blocking the roundabout. Just have to sit there because some twat in a Yaris is sitting there.

Any speck of a field or green area is going to be gone. You'd think they'd just move to the outskirts of Dublin and outside of Dublin and extend transport links.

No need to get rid of existing buildings that are being used. They really don't give a **** for people already in these areas. The traffic is going to be chaotic and the public transport generally isn't up to scratch.

wexie

DaveyDave wrote: »

Any speck of a field or green area is going to be gone. You'd think they'd just move to the outskirts of Dublin and outside of Dublin and extend transport links.

While I wouldn't completely disagree with you, the area they're talking about around the Naas road isn't exactly a green belt now is it?

Personally I think it should be a mixture of both insofar that yes there is a lot of inefficient land use in that and other areas. There really is very little added benefit for the likes of a truck dealership to being inside the M50 and certainly for companies like that it would make sense to up and move.

But you're absolutely right in saying that it probably wouldn't hurt to have a look at increasing the efficiency and capacity of the transport links in and out of the city. I'd imagine though that that's something that will be done with the usual efficiency and forethought.

DaveyDave

wexie wrote: »

While I wouldn't completely disagree with you, the area they're talking about around the Naas road isn't exactly a green belt now is it?

Personally I think it should be a mixture of both insofar that yes there is a lot of inefficient land use in that and other areas. There really is very little added benefit for the likes of a truck dealership to being inside the M50 and certainly for companies like that it would make sense to up and move.

But you're absolutely right in saying that it probably wouldn't hurt to have a look at increasing the efficiency and capacity of the transport links in and out of the city. I'd imagine though that that's something that will be done with the usual efficiency and forethought.

Sorry didn't mean the Naas road being green, meant parts of Dublin in general. It's going to be nothing but housing estates if they keep it up. There won't be any fields or green areas, just crappy little parks.

There's plenty of unused land though, the likes of Blanch up to Ashbourne there's a lot of land there. There's also Millennium Park off the N7 which is massive and unused. I was shocked at how much space there was.

I'm sure there's reasons for it all but I just see so much space unused outside of the M50 yet they're trying to increase the density and build everything on top of each other.

They could take a leaf out of the Netherlands book and spread the population around a bit. I saw a graph recently showing the percentage of a countries population in it's capital city and no other country was anywhere near what Dublin has.

wexie

DaveyDave wrote: »

Sorry didn't mean the Naas road being green, meant parts of Dublin in general. It's going to be nothing but housing estates if they keep it up. There won't be any fields or green areas, just crappy little parks.

I certainly wouldn't be in favour of destroying anymore green spaces alright, which is why I wouldn't have an issue with businesses that don't necessarily need to be inside the m50 being 'encouraged' (provided that is done fairly) to set up shop elsewhere.

DaveyDave wrote: »

I'm sure there's reasons for it all but I just see so much space unused outside of the M50 yet they're trying to increase the density and build everything on top of each other.

I think it's high time they let go of this crazy restriction on high rises in Dublin and maybe less density outside of the M50, certainly if they can't manage to put in the transport either

DaveyDave wrote: »

They could take a leaf out of the Netherlands book and spread the population around a bit. I saw a graph recently showing the percentage of a countries population in it's capital city and no other country was anywhere near what Dublin has.

It's odd alright, personally I think it'd be great if they somehow managed to get both the population as well as employment spread out more. I don't necessarily know if Holland would be the perfect example insofar that I'm not sure it's very much a conscious effort to spread the population rather than the population spreading into the space that's available. Holland is about half the size of Ireland and has over 3 times the population. So that would equate to Ireland having a population of about 35 million.

But yeah if it came to that point we'd probably still have about 15 or so million all huddled together around Dublin.

Heres Johnny

I know this is the motors forum but will our government ever learn to build up instead of out.

On a motor related topic, good to get rid of all pop up motor garages out there. It's an ugly area and needs an overhaul.
Wouldn't live there personally though.

Dravokivich

68 lost souls wrote: »

Because of its transport links and geographical use it is better served for use as housing and therefore inefficient if used for commercial sales.

It predates the transport links and for the most part, public transport skips through the area even with the sizable amount of business done there.

ironclaw

DaveyDave wrote: »

They could take a leaf out of the Netherlands book and spread the population around a bit. I saw a graph recently showing the percentage of a countries population in it's capital city and no other country was anywhere near what Dublin has.

No disagreeing but the Netherlands isn't an island nation. Our major airport and port are in Dublin and its the historic centre of trade. The Netherlands is also a focal point of sorts for Europe and has incredible transport links in, around and through it.

When you realistically think of it, where could you spread the population to? Where is good enough to serve it? Cork and Dublin would be the first two, maybe Galway / Limerick. But then you have to ask yourself, would you live there? You're pretty far from an airport for the holidays and the weather on the west coast is far more rain. You can't go North because it's underserved in terms of transport and Wicklow is out because of the mountains.

Ireland is fairly unique, the solution isn't just to spread everyone out. The time to do that was in the 1920's, not 2018 when, let's be honest, everything of modern trade value is now locked in Dublin.

Ivefoundgod

DaveyDave wrote: »

There's also Millennium Park off the N7 which is massive and unused. I was shocked at how much space there was.

In fairness the millenium park is a long way from Dublin and is already a complete disaster during busy hours. I commute from Carlow to Ballymount everyday and the whole of Naas is a complete ****show, can't get in or out of it during rush hour. It'd be a different story if the infrastructure was there to support an influx of new houses and if people could commute easily to Dublin from there but for now they can't. Its the reason why houses are so expensive in Dublin, because its the only place you can live and get to work in a half hour or so without too much congestion (m50 aside).

I don't mind the commute now but its not something i'll keep up long term.

emo72

That empty field behind Woodie's on the naas road. Empty for decades. What's going on there? Harris hino site absolutely huge. Western industrial estate, it's getting a bit long in the tooth and run down in sections. Right beside the Luas line, that should all be rezoned for housing, what a great project that would be.

All that area could be high rise.

colm_mcm

Loada ****e IMO. They’ve plenty stuff they could CPO and relocate, James’s hospital for example. I know that’s only 50 acres.

Point is, they should be encouraging more quality high rise close to the city rather than building more estates outside town.

jimmycrackcorm

DaveyDave wrote:

Will they feck off trying to build housing in every nook and cranny in Dublin? There's 8,000 houses planned to be built up in Clonburris at the back of Lucan. Traffic is already a joke around here, genuinely can't get out if the estate at 8-8:30am because school traffic blocking the roundabout. Just have to sit there because some twat in a Yaris is sitting there.

Tell us which is the problem with that..,

A) increased housing when there is a crisis
lazy car users unwilling to use public transport
C) lazy car users holding up public transport

A clue is that the problem you describe disappears in the summer. Clonburris also has a ready made train station waiting to be opened.

Da Optimist

This has nothing to do with buying cars. Remove it.

Heres Johnny

Da Optimist wrote: »

This has nothing to do with buying cars. Remove it.

Bad day?

Del2005

wexie wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't be in favour of destroying anymore green spaces alright, which is why I wouldn't have an issue with businesses that don't necessarily need to be inside the m50 being 'encouraged' (provided that is done fairly) to set up shop elsewhere.

All the businesses that are moved will need to go to green field sites so this won't save any green spaces, it could actually reduce them because the companies will be buying bigger sites for expansion. Also while their is public transport its not well designed around the area so would need feeder buses will be needed or people will still need to drive. The Luas is already at peak capacity and struggles to run more trams so the people won't be able to use that, especially now that Citywest is getting loads of new housing estates.

They should concentrate on the land they already own though first, which is enough for nearly all the expected demand if they go up, instead of paying top Euro for more land.

CrabRevolution

DaveyDave wrote: »

Sorry didn't mean the Naas road being green, meant parts of Dublin in general. It's going to be nothing but housing estates if they keep it up. There won't be any fields or green areas, just crappy little parks.

There's plenty of unused land though, the likes of Blanch up to Ashbourne there's a lot of land there. There's also Millennium Park off the N7 which is massive and unused. I was shocked at how much space there was.

I'm sure there's reasons for it all but I just see so much space unused outside of the M50 yet they're trying to increase the density and build everything on top of each other.

They could take a leaf out of the Netherlands book and spread the population around a bit. I saw a graph recently showing the percentage of a countries population in it's capital city and no other country was anywhere near what Dublin has.

You might not want to believe everything you see. About 40 countries have bigger proportions of their population in their capital, and many countries (Sweden, Georgia, Moldova, Austria, Cyprus) have similar %s to us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_capitals_by_population

James Bond Junior

ironclaw wrote: »

No disagreeing but the Netherlands isn't an island nation. Our major airport and port are in Dublin and its the historic centre of trade. The Netherlands is also a focal point of sorts for Europe and has incredible transport links in, around and through it.

When you realistically think of it, where could you spread the population to? Where is good enough to serve it? Cork and Dublin would be the first two, maybe Galway / Limerick. But then you have to ask yourself, would you live there? You're pretty far from an airport for the holidays and the weather on the west coast is far more rain. You can't go North because it's underserved in terms of transport and Wicklow is out because of the mountains.

Ireland is fairly unique, the solution isn't just to spread everyone out. The time to do that was in the 1920's, not 2018 when, let's be honest, everything of modern trade value is now locked in Dublin.

You do realise there is an international airport on the west coast only 12 miles outside Limerick city? Limerick is a fantastic city to live, work and socialise in despite what the Dublin meeja like to lead the country to believe. My brother lives on the East coast and reckons Dublin is running on over capacity currently and that Limerick should and can be the counter balance to take the heat off.

We even have our own motoring bermuda triangle already down here, 2 in fact, the dock road and the ballysimon road. The Nass road mafia would nearly learn a thing or two..

Heres Johnny

Yeah a huge amount of cars I like seem to be limericķ when I click into them.
I know the ballysimon rd of which you speak full of small operations.