Fert Spreaders, patterns and headlands...

kowtow

About to buy a new spreader and wanted to pick a few brains here before I make a final decision.

Have an old Amazone on demo here at the moment and seems a good enough machine for it's age, but I'm not quite clear on a few points...

1. Am I correct that the spread settings assume that you are covering ground twice? For example, set machine to 12m, set GPS working width to 12m and work away and - to my eye - you are overlapping your previous bout and covering the ground twice. I might be wrong, or the settings might be a bit out on this older machine, but the rate over a few acres appears to be pretty accurate??? this leads me to ...

2. Headlands. If the machine assumes you are overlapping then coverage on the headlands becomes more important. How do people handle this with Amazone and other spreaders? I know there are a few options like fold down limiters with Amazone and reversible discs with Rauch (I think) but I need something fooldproof as we have a few rivers and roads to deal with and If I'm buying a new machine it might as well do what it is supposed to do.

All our ground is hilly as well and some people have said that the twin hoppers on an Amazone are a problem .. are the newer machines with the bottom entry and the full augers any better at this?

Grateful for any pointers before we make a decision that is supposed to last twenty years. New spinners are surprisingly big money.

Calfscour

Buy a vicon wag tail that’s holds two big bags. Never have to worry again. Super simple machine and good on hills. Won’t break the bank either. Now if your spreading large amounts then maybe something bigger would suit.

Gawddawggonnit

kowtow wrote: »

About to buy a new spreader and wanted to pick a few brains here before I make a final decision.

Have an old Amazone on demo here at the moment and seems a good enough machine for it's age, but I'm not quite clear on a few points...

1. Am I correct that the spread settings assume that you are covering ground twice? For example, set machine to 12m, set GPS working width to 12m and work away and - to my eye - you are overlapping your previous bout and covering the ground twice. I might be wrong, or the settings might be a bit out on this older machine, but the rate over a few acres appears to be pretty accurate??? this leads me to ...

2. Headlands. If the machine assumes you are overlapping then coverage on the headlands becomes more important. How do people handle this with Amazone and other spreaders? I know there are a few options like fold down limiters with Amazone and reversible discs with Rauch (I think) but I need something fooldproof as we have a few rivers and roads to deal with and If I'm buying a new machine it might as well do what it is supposed to do.

All our ground is hilly as well and some people have said that the twin hoppers on an Amazone are a problem .. are the newer machines with the bottom entry and the full augers any better at this?

Grateful for any pointers before we make a decision that is supposed to last twenty years. New spinners are surprisingly big money.

Bogballe are the most accurate on the market. Download the app, enter fert type, forward speed, and it’ll tell you what to do. No major settings on it at all. Absolutely foolproof.
Downside is they’re made from recycled Cola cans. Paintwork ain’t great either.

Rauch are a good solid machine as are Amazone, but a bit fiddly to set up.

Most twin disc machines work on the four way double overlap principle...which means that the spread width gets four separate passes of fert, iykwim. (Helps with accuracy).


For accuracy and ease of use hard to beat the precision of Bogballe.

kowtow

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Bogballe are the most accurate on the market. Download the app, enter fert type, forward speed, and it’ll tell you what to do. No major settings on it at all. Absolutely foolproof.
Downside is they’re made from recycled Cola cans. Paintwork ain’t great either.

Rauch are a good solid machine as are Amazone, but a bit fiddly to set up.

Most twin disc machines work on the four way double overlap principle...which means that the spread width gets four separate passes of fert, iykwim. (Helps with accuracy).


For accuracy and ease of use hard to beat the precision of Bogballe.

So you are supposed to drive over the spread width twice - I notice in the online Amazone manual it talks about working width, being the distance between tramlines. I suppose if you get that right and the set up corresponds then you are happy out.

There will still be an under application beside the headlands though unless you use one of their special approaches??

I think - correct me if I am wrong - that the preferred approach is to concentrate the spread into half the working width on the headland using one of the limiter devices. Basically you are concentrating a normal pass into a "pass and a half" at the headland, providing the full spread for the headland itself (half the working width to your left if going clockwise) and providing the first half of the spread to set you up for the first proper tram line (a full working width in from the first tramline)

Does that make sense?

Gawddawggonnit

kowtow wrote: »

So you are supposed to drive over the spread width twice - I notice in the online Amazone manual it talks about working width, being the distance between tramlines. I suppose if you get that right and the set up corresponds then you are happy out.

There will still be an under application beside the headlands though unless you use one of their special approaches??

I think - correct me if I am wrong - that the preferred approach is to concentrate the spread into half the working width on the headland using one of the limiter devices. Basically you are concentrating a normal pass into a "pass and a half" at the headland, providing the full spread for the headland itself (half the working width to your left if going clockwise) and providing the first half of the spread to set you up for the first proper tram line (a full working width in from the first tramline)

Does that make sense?

Say your working width is 12m...you drive at 12m from the centre of your last tractor track. Each disc spreads fert to 12m both sides (theoretically)...on your next pass (12m) you’re doubling the fert again therefore 4-way double pass.
So, at 12m you’re firing fert 24m in total and doubling up again...it’s the four passes that help accuracy.
For the headland pass it drops fert at 6m...thus the headland is already ‘doubled’ by both discs.


I’m starting to get confusted myself now.

visatorro

Lad was here with an amazon with full GPS, all bells and whistles. Very impressed with it and seemed accurate. Shuts off itself when overlapping.

kowtow

visatorro wrote: »

Lad was here with an amazon with full GPS, all bells and whistles. Very impressed with it and seemed accurate. Shuts off itself when overlapping.

Is that the one with all the weigh cells?

I think the new basic ZAM is 5K plus so I dread to think what his one cost.

All very well buying the kitted out one but I'd have no money left to put anything in it!

kowtow

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Say your working width is 12m...you drive at 12m from the centre of your last tractor track. Each disc spreads fert to 12m both sides (theoretically)...on your next pass (12m) you’re doubling the fert again therefore 4-way double pass.
So, at 12m you’re firing fert 24m in total and doubling up again...it’s the four passes that help accuracy.
For the headland pass it drops fert at 6m...thus the headland is already ‘doubled’ by both discs.


I’m starting to get confusted myself now.

I'm sure that is right. What was confusing me was that with the spreader set to 12m and the tracks 12m apart (according to the GPS) the spreader still seemed to be throwing out to the previous track. Your explanation makes perfect sense, and since the setting was more or less what the App said it should be and the fertiliser used was correct to about 5% across six tonnes that is the only explanation.

The only issue is what solution to choose for border limiting. I wonder how much the fold down hydraulic limiter thing is....

K.G.

I just turn off one side in the rauch and spread around the ditch and bobs your aunty.some makes have a special disc for headlands but it really applies to following tramlines whereas for livestock turning off one side is alot handier

Mooooo

kowtow wrote: »

Is that the one with all the weigh cells?

I think the new basic ZAM is 5K plus so I dread to think what his one cost.

All very well buying the kitted out one but I'd have no money left to put anything in it!

I think they have something similar in darragh in clon, lad here is doing green cert was told it was 20k

kowtow

K.G. wrote: »

I just turn off one side in the rauch and spread around the ditch and bobs your aunty.some makes have a special disc for headlands but it really applies to following tramlines whereas for livestock turning off one side is alot handier

So the first full line would be [12m - if that's the width] in from the circuit of the ditch? And you'd have done the first half of the spread when you went round the headland?

Buford T. Justice XIX

I'd second Dawgs post about the Bogballe. I have an L1 here and pretty foolproof, tbh, and a simple headland spread pattern where you have to manually switch the disc on the right side to spin backwards while you're the 6m (or half your track width) from the bounds. When the headland is spread, you get off and switch it back and spread normally in the rest of the field.

It's a fairly cheap twin disc 1200L spreader but the finish is poor enough. The corner inserts get knocked off regularly by cattle and around the gears is a hoor to wash properly. But the internal sieves, cover and headland kit comes as standard.

Cattlepen

I only have experience with Amazone. I have a whistles and bell gps for the last five years or so but I had a manual Zam before that. It was excellent. You wouldn’t have a teacup of fertilizer left either way when you would be finished. An ordinary gps system is not that dear anymore so it improves accuracy greatly. The border spreading flap also works 100%.
Just looking at done deal. Plenty of amazone there at handy money. Free app on the Fone now for settings and all

kowtow

Cattlepen wrote:

I only have experience with Amazone. I have a whistles and bell gps for the last five years or so but I had a manual Zam before that. It was excellent. You wouldn’t have a teacup of fertilizer left either way when you would be finished. An ordinary gps system is not that dear anymore so it improves accuracy greatly. The border spreading flap also works 100%.

Is that the flap that folds down hydraulically? You run round half the working width from the ditch then lift it and drive on?

kevthegaff

Calfscour wrote:

Buy a vicon wag tail that’s holds two big bags. Never have to worry again. Super simple machine and good on hills. Won’t break the bank either. Now if your spreading large amounts then maybe something bigger would suit.

If you have hilly ground, the less travelling you want to be doing imo. Wagtails don't spread wide. I bought a 26 rauch with a cover and one hopper. I need the extra space as on hills, had a spreader with two hoppers (sulky) handy sometimes but always left with some fertilliser in one side. Cover is handy also if u have some left for the following day etc

Cattlepen

kowtow wrote: »

Is that the flap that folds down hydraulically? You run round half the working width from the ditch then lift it and drive on?

That’s the one. Combine it with yara ccf and it’s deadly accurate