Price without trade in?

heroics

Why do dealers put a price online for a car and then say that’s without trade in. Price with trade in is 1-2k more

Car advertised 18000
They offered 6 for my mams.
Me: So we need 12 cash.
Dealer: No 14 cash as that price is the cash price without trade in.
M: So then you are giving me 4 for the car
no 6k

Round and round so just walked away

robarmstrong

Coz unfortunately, cash is king.

It does suck, big time, but I know a few dealers who have not gone with the increased price because of a trade-in, where are you located?

aaakev

robarmstrong wrote: »

Coz unfortunately, cash is king.

It does suck, big time, but I know a few dealers who have not gone with the increased price because of a trade-in, where are you located?

Cash is so not king..... people always ask me what extra discount ill do for cash, its always none...

But in this scenario ita all about margin. Its a business, you will a lot of the time get a discount for buying straight, the extra cost for trade in is to allow the dealer make some money because by taking the trade in he now has 2 cars to sell to make the profit.

Example

Dealer buys a car for 10k and advertises for 12k. No trade in and you get it for say 11k.

Now imagine you have a trade in worth 5k retail so the cost to change is 7k.

Dealer has made no profit and just bought your trade in for 3k, will have to clean, prep, service, advertise etc the trade in which costs lets say 500. Trade in now costs €3500.

Dealer sells for 5k and has made €1500 after doing double the work

Heres Johnny

Strange the dealer phrased it that way but some do.
People get hung up what valuation dealers put on their trade in.

I was looking for a newer used car recently so tried a few places with the type of car in stock.

The ones that were priced well to start with tended to value mine very low as they didn't have the margin to play with.

Those priced high initially offered me more on my car as they had the wiggle room.

I have a 2006 e60 and I was looking for a 2011/2022 f10 BMW.

I was offered between 1 and 3k for my car and the place that offered me 3k was the worst deal as their car was priced high and wouldnt budge and cost to change was higher even though I was initially impressed they would offer me 3k for my own.

George Dalton

heroics wrote: »

Why do dealers put a price online for a car and then say that’s without trade in. Price with trade in is 1-2k more

Car advertised 18000

If that car had been advertised for €20000 would you still have clicked into the ad and would you have gone to look at it?

Probably not.

And that’s the answer to your question.

grogi

aaakev wrote: »

Example

/.../

Dealer sells for 5k and has made €1500 after doing double the work

In other words: the dealer made 1k on the first car and 500 on the second.

So instead saying it straight: "the price is 11k and your trade in is worth 4k" the dealer is doing some magical number dance...

I hate car salesmen...

grogi

George Dalton wrote: »

If that car had been advertised for €20000 would you still have clicked into the ad and would you have gone to look at it?

Probably not.

And that’s the answer to your question.

Business idea: advertise at 10k with a caveat that this price is with a kidney trade-in...?! You'd get million clicks...


But on a serious note: OP was buying a car worth €18000, and offered €4000 for the trade-in. However the salesman did not want to say they are offering reasonable €4000, but generous €6000. Which simple is BS.

bazz26

Which is why the cost to change figure is the only figure to focus on. The car was costing the OP's mother 14k plus her own car no matter whether you gave 6k off 20k or 4k off 18k. The 2k discount was never going to be added to the trade in value and taken off the trade in value of the other car. It's applied to one or the other.

GarIT

I've found something even worse, I've been looking at nearly new cars, 171 or newer. More than half the cars are advertised at a price and then the ad details says that price is including scrappage of 2k, without trading something in for scrappage the price is 2k more.

aaakev

grogi wrote: »

aaakev wrote: »

Example

/.../

Dealer sells for 5k and has made €1500 after doing double the work

In other words: the dealer made 1k on the first car and 500 on the second.

So instead saying it straight: "the price is 11k and your trade in is worth 4k" the dealer is doing some magical number dance...

I hate car salesmen...

Not doing a magic dance, giving the customer a fair price off the retail price of their car. Believe it or not if i was to discount a car and discount a trade in by the same amount, leaving the cost to change the exact same in both cases the majority of customers would take issue with the low trade in value!

I dont get people that say they hate car salesmen. Here is some free advise, next time you are buying a car dont go in with that attitude because you wont get the best deal possible

Stoner

heroics wrote:

Why do dealers put a price online for a car and then say that’s without trade in. Price with trade in is 1-2k more

You should sell the other car yourself. That work and effort is your 1-2K.
There's is a straight Cash price, it's available to you that's the deal.

I recently sold a car to a relative for the (low) price the dealers offered me. I found it difficult to sell it even though it was a great car at a good price. That's how I looked at it. Try to sell it yourself anything above 4 k is good. I assume the dealer offers some sort of warranty too, something you can't. This is worth money and costs them money.
So the effort of selling and giving a guarantee has a price on it.

You know what you need to do.

See if you can get 7 for it yourself, you'll be flying then.

heroics

George Dalton wrote: »

If that car had been advertised for €20000 would you still have clicked into the ad and would you have gone to look at it?

Probably not.

And that’s the answer to your question.

Probably not but it made no difference as I didn't buy it so time was wasted on both sides.

Probably will just sell the car privately. My mam is in no real rush to sell/buy so can wait for it.

heroics

aaakev wrote: »

Not doing a magic dance, giving the customer a fair price off the retail price of their car. Believe it or not if i was to discount a car and discount a trade in by the same amount, leaving the cost to change the exact same in both cases the majority of customers would take issue with the low trade in value!

I dont get people that say they hate car salesmen. Here is some free advise, next time you are buying a car dont go in with that attitude because you wont get the best deal possible

No they are doing a magic number dance. Instead of just being honest and saying price for the car is x and best I can give for trade in on your car is y.

They try to say that they are giving more than they are for the trade in.

The dealer is making money on the cash price or they wouldn't be selling it at that price.

Take my original figures. If the dealer sells the car for cash @18k they make x%

If they take the car in on trade in and sell it for 6k after basically giving 4k trade in value (comparing it to others online 6.5-7.5) so allowing for a lower price they make the x%+2k

Thanks for the free advice btw. I don't hate car salesmen I just don't understand some of the tricks they use to try and sell cars.

heroics

Stoner wrote: »

You should sell the other car yourself. That work and effort is your 1-2K.
There's is a straight Cash price, it's available to you that's the deal.

I recently sold a car to a relative for the (low) price the dealers offered me. I found it difficult to sell it even though it was a great car at a good price. That's how I looked at it. Try to sell it yourself anything above 4 k is good. I assume the dealer offers some sort of warranty too, something you can't. This is worth money and costs them money.
So the effort of selling and giving a guarantee has a price on it.

You know what you need to do.

See if you can get 7 for it yourself, you'll be flying then.

Probably will end up selling it privately.
Technically I only need to get over 4k for me to do better than the dealers offer.

fallen01angel

Just out of curiosity..... If a dealer was selling a car on a website for 20k,how much would people here expect to get it for cash (no trade in?)

heroics

GarIT wrote: »

I've found something even worse, I've been looking at nearly new cars, 171 or newer. More than half the cars are advertised at a price and then the ad details says that price is including scrappage of 2k, without trading something in for scrappage the price is 2k more.

I have noticed this as well. makes even less sense

Heres Johnny

Cost to change the only real gauge of cost worth looking at.

X-y=z

Z is the only one worth looking at
X and y are irrelevant

And z is nearly always smallest if you sell your own privately

_Brian

Think of trading in your car as just continuing their work chain before they get their investment back, they need to charge more to continue this chain of work, it costs money to have another car on the lot, cleaning, services, repairs, lost opportunities.
If you buy the car outright they skip these costs and have the opportunity to have a different car of their choice on the car lot which will also turn a profit.

Cash is only king in industries and businesses where cash is skimmed off easily. In addition many would rather you took finance rather than cash as they get a fair twist on that too profit wise, they make nothing on the cash you hand over.
Also for some reason you make a deal with someone for “cash” and they try hand you a cheque or bankers draft somehow thinking that’s cash.

_Brian

fallen01angel wrote: »

Just out of curiosity..... If a dealer was selling a car on a website for 20k,how much would people here expect to get it for cash (no trade in?)

€20k
They all advertise straight deal prices, trade in is a different deal.

grogi

GarIT wrote: »

I've found something even worse, I've been looking at nearly new cars, 171 or newer. More than half the cars are advertised at a price and then the ad details says that price is including scrappage of 2k, without trading something in for scrappage the price is 2k more.

Eee, you will be officially offered a banger for €150 that is parked outside...

colm_mcm

Problem is that dealers are advertising brand new cars (not preregs or demos) at straight deal prices, so in order for other dealers to be able to get bites on nearly new stuff, they too have to advertise at straight deal prices, it’s a vicious circle.

enricoh

A friend of a friend is a car salesman and he was saying he only gets his commission on selling a car when the trade in is sold.
Sod that. I can see why he'd be telling you to sell it private.

grogi

colm_mcm wrote: »

Problem is that dealers are advertising brand new cars (not preregs or demos) at straight deal prices, so in order for other dealers to be able to get bites on nearly new stuff, they too have to advertise at straight deal prices, it’s a vicious circle.

What circle?! Circle of absurd?! That's very simple - that's how much particular car costs.

But the dealer wants the buyer to think he is getting more for the trade-in that actually is being paying for it - hence the price massaging..

colm_mcm

enricoh wrote: »

A friend of a friend is a car salesman and he was saying he only gets his commission on selling a car when the trade in is sold.
Sod that. I can see why he'd be telling you to sell it private.

That’s called a long washout, and is basically a safeguard against salesmen with autonomy overvaluing trade ins.