Multi-Marathon Advice

mr_bump

Hi there.  Hoping to get some advice on my race/training schedule this autumn.  This post is probably bit big, so long story short i'm looking for thoughts on running a 26.2 mile training run 3 weeks out from goal marathon.

DCM is my target race on 28th Oct.  Already registered and have a plan over the summer to build a solid base (~40 mile weeks) which will probably include a couple of half-marathon race efforts.  Following this I intend to follow the 12-week marathon specific P&D (up to 55 mile) plan.

Complicating this is a recent proposal I received to run the Cologne marathon on 7th October.  I am in the fortunate position that this run is part of a corporate sponsorship package giving free race entry, flights and 1-night hotel accommodation.  However, the dilemma i'm facing is that Cologne is three weeks out from DCM, and so I guess doing the two might be considered multi-marathoning?  This is not something i've done before and probably really not sure if it is something I should do / be able for, hence the request for advice!

Should I decide to register for Cologne, DCM would still be my target race, and my effort at Cologne would effectively be a very big SLR (perhaps 8:30 min per mile).  As I see it arguments for doing Cologne are:
1) it's free!
2) it's an opportunity to run an overseas marathon (have only run DCM before)
3) it's an opportunity to experience multi-marathoning and perhaps benefit from a serious endurance workout prior to goal race.

The big potential negative is the derailment of my target race following an inability to fully recover within the a 3 week taper period.  I could register to run the Cologne half-marathon instead (same day and also covered by the corporate sponsorship), but seems like a long way to go to jog through a half.  I could be tempted to approach the half as a tune-up race, but this might equally scupper my DCM target whereby I sacrifice a long run and not recovery adequately from the race effort.

For background to my (in)abilities, I have attempted the marathon distance on 4 previous occasions, and will be looking to PB in DCM 2018 with a provisional (probably aggressive) target time of 3h15m.  Only one of the 4 attempts was a truly serious effort from which my current PB of 3h31m was achieved.  However, all 4 efforts had the common theme of a death march from about mile 20 (damn you Clonskeagh), from which point I have leaked between 9 and 14 minutes from my target times.  So endurance is definitely an issue, but funnily enough recovery not so much (I can generally get back into steady training comfortably after 2 weeks recovery or so).

So can a 26.2 mile SLR be successfully integrated into my training plan?  Might it be just the type of training stimuli I need to finally beat my marathon endurance issues?  Or am I mad to consider this, and just trying to justify a free trip?  All advice much appreciated.

Kellygirl

If it was me I’d do it but I don’t do your sort of times. I’d love that experience of going off to Cologne though all paid for and I think if you took it really handy, genuinely stuck to LSR pace and didn’t get carried away then sure it’s not that much more than a 20 mile run anyway that you might possibly be doing 3 weeks out. I’d have physio booked for a few days after getting back to ensure my body was in ship shape for Dublin and then enjoy your taper.

The more competitive people here might or will prob say different but I’d be looking at the experience. How important is the pb in Dublin to you? There’s always next year or other marathons?

martyboy48

Why not make Cologne your goal race?? It's a faster course I think??
Then see if you feel you are recovered enough for Dublin....

Murph_D

+1 to that. DCM can be your victory lap.

26.2 mile LR is a bad idea. Too long on your feet. More likely to lead to fatigue and/or injury than provide any meaningful additional stimulus. If you're not into racing Cologne, running the half at marathon pace would be a far better idea.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

RayCun

If you're going to do both, race the first one.

djemba djemba

I would agree with the posters who were suggest to race Cologne.

I have experience of both. Cologne (2017) Dublin (2016).
I would give Cologne a go and if for any reason sickness / heat / niggles whatever you can fall back on Dublin or use it knowing you have your time in the bank and really take in everything around you. If Cologne didn't go well for me I was planning to do another one.

Cologne is flat as you can get, it is a bit loopy and involves turning back on yourself a bit but it is a great race. I cannot recommend it enough. The finish is brilliant.

OOnegative

I'm in same boat, but fully intend on running Cologne all out and then hope i'm lucky enough to be picked to pace DCM :p:p. I'd give Cologne a good go then take it easy going around DCM and take in the whole experience of it.

Itziger

Hey, Bump. I don't disagree with the other posters but let me tell ya what I'm doing in the next few weeks; something very similar to you.

I signed up for Stockholm (June 2nd) and then kinda got roped in to doing my local, hill marathon here in Luxembourg excatly 3 weeks before the other one. Both are on Saturday funily enough. I'm targetting Stockholm and I'm going to use Lux as a training run. Plan is to do 14k Easy, 14k Steady and 14k at MP (that might change yet, but it will be a big session one way or another) I'm hoping that will leave me almost primed for the target race. 3 weeks out is probably going to be a big run anyway so I'm thinking, Why not make it a hard session in a race situation with water stations and the works?

Might work for you. Might help with the endurance side of things.

RayCun

I think you have to factor in experience and mileage.

If you've been running for a while, and have run several marathons, it's easier to control your effort and not get caught up in the race, even just a bit.

And if you are a regular high-mileage runner, 26 miles on a training run is not too far off the norm. Krusty or dublinrunner have done plenty of 100 miles weeks, and plenty of 20 mile plus runs, so a marathon in training doesn't really stand out. But if you usually run less than 50 miles a week, and have only done a handful of runs over 2.5 hours, a marathon is a very big session.

Running a massive session, and probably too fast, three weeks out from your goal marathon, is a bad idea.

But if you do your goal marathon first, it doesn't really matter how well-recovered you are when the second one come around.

Itziger

RayCun wrote: »

I think you have to factor in experience and mileage.

If you've been running for a while, and have run several marathons, it's easier to control your effort and not get caught up in the race, even just a bit.

And if you are a regular high-mileage runner, 26 miles on a training run is not too far off the norm. Krusty or dublinrunner have done plenty of 100 miles weeks, and plenty of 20 mile plus runs, so a marathon in training doesn't really stand out. But if you usually run less than 50 miles a week, and have only done a handful of runs over 2.5 hours, a marathon is a very big session.

Running a massive session, and probably too fast, three weeks out from your goal marathon, is a bad idea.

But if you do your goal marathon first, it doesn't really matter how well-recovered you are when the second one come around.

I get that Ray, yeah. Even though my mileage isn't as high as the above named (or as fast ) and I think the OP said he'd only done 4 marathons or so. I have done a few at this stage though and I think I'll be able to control the run on May 12th. It wouldn't be a great approach for everyone though.

TFBubendorfer

I do agree with the majority view.

I have run multiple marathons on plenty of occasions and in my experience you always want to race the first one. I have tried to race a second marathon and more often than not found out that I had left my best race in a previous marathon already.

This true especially in your case because Cologne and Dublin are so close together. If they were more than 6 weeks apart things might be different but they're not.

There are always individual examples for both options, but you are much more likely to race well in Cologne than Dublin.

mr_bump

Thanks for all the replies. Prior to posting my gut was telling me it was too risky to run both. Now with the consensus here in agreement, I've decided to just run the one autumn marathon.

In saying that I definitely think that some could pull this off, and in fact know of two who set consecutive PB's in marathons 4 & 6 weeks apart respectively. So I'll be very interested in hearing how Itziger and OOnegative get on with their plans.

I'll be concentrating my efforts on DCM, but think I'll try to race the Cologne half marathon during the build-up. I'm pretty sure that I can successfully recovery/taper from a half-marathon effort over the 3 weeks to DCM. My only real concern is to sub-optimal effects of horse-shoeing a 13.1m race in to my marathon training plan when P&D is calling for a 20mile LSR 3 weeks out. Surely advancing the last big run to 4 weeks out won't have any great impact???