Cost of Building 2018

dellas1979

I suppose, am despairing at the moment. Looking to hear others situations too. Family/friends dont get it. And others seem to have the PoV that if you can build, you must have lots of money.

Its just money after money after money. On one salary. How do the gov think people can afford this? And a housing crisis going on?

Paid to get a house designed by an archi. Fair enough, that was my choice. Am at tender stage now.

The cost of utilities is....insane. 1k to get a Eir pole moved. 2k for electricity connections/poles moved. Up to 12k for a water connection. Irish water wont give me an actual figure, which if it is 12k, can stop the build. Engineer/percolation fees. Land transfer fees. Solicitor fees.

Got in a few tenders already. Few came in on budget, except for the 13.5% VAT on top. Shoots it up.

Yep-was my choice to build. But all I can make are these faces right now :eek:

Am just freaking out maybe I wont have enough! Cause the trees in the garden dont grow notes.

JimmyMW

dellas1979 wrote: »

I suppose, am despairing at the moment. Looking to hear others situations too. Family/friends dont get it. And others seem to have the PoV that if you can build, you must have lots of money.

Its just money after money after money. On one salary. How do the gov think people can afford this? And a housing crisis going on?

Paid to get a house designed by an archi. Fair enough, that was my choice. Am at tender stage now.

The cost of utilities is....insane. 1k to get a Eir pole moved. 2k for electricity connections/poles moved. Up to 12k for a water connection. Irish water wont give me an actual figure, which if it is 12k, can stop the build. Engineer/percolation fees. Land transfer fees. Solicitor fees.

Got in a few tenders already. Few came in on budget, except for the 13.5% VAT on top. Shoots it up.

Yep-was my choice to build. But all I can make are these faces right now :eek:

Am just freaking out maybe I wont have enough! Cause the trees in the garden dont grow notes.

Simplify the design if you have to, better to have something you can afford to finish.

Gumbo

Where are you building?
How big is the house?
How many in the family?
What kind of design is it?

What spec did you tender? (Air tightness/BER/modern)

Calahonda52

dellas1979 wrote: »

....

Paid to get a house designed by an archi. Fair enough, that was my choice. Am at tender stage now.

The cost of utilities is....insane. 1k to get a Eir pole moved. 2k for electricity connections/poles moved. Up to 12k for a water connection. Irish water wont give me an actual figure, which if it is 12k, can stop the build.Engineer/percolation fees. Land transfer fees. Solicitor fees.

....

Rant warning:
Open rant>

In the absence of any other numbers all we have to go on is the above, all of which arise because of where you decided to build.

The question is: who do you expect to pay for theses services which are 100% for your sole benefit

If you don't then its the urbanites, without adding in the cost to the environment of one/off ribbon dev type builds.

So why should I, as an urbanite have to pay for your services or are you a fully paid up member of the "water is a human right" crowd.
>Close rant

dellas1979

Am building a 100 square meter home.

3 beds. 3 bathrooms. So modest, but nicely designed. Triple glaze. Heat pump/UFH, ventilation system. Will be an A3/C1 BER. Made the size smaller so the spec could be higher., energy-wise

I think the point of my post was missed by some. Its not the cost of the actual build that's killing it. Its the cost of utilities.

For example, have you built and been told youd probably have to pay 12k for a water connection (house it about 15 meters from the road/connection). Or paid 1k for a pole to be moved?

There was no way to budget for the water connection (I had researched and asked and was initially told around 2k. 2k jumped to 12k (advised by local council) once planning was gotton). Irish water wont tell you. Ive tried. Even considered getting solicitor onto them.

Seeing as youre full of words, Calahonda52, what is your experience with paying 12k for a water connection? Do I stop a build, having paid for everything else up to a tender, because I cant afford the utilities? Did you pay 12k for a water connection (ducting/piping/road part redoing) 15 meters from the road? Or maybe youve paid more.

B-D-P--

dellas1979 wrote: »

have you built and been told youd probably have to pay 12k for a water connection

Ahh now, I'm sure somebody somewhere will say, My cousins neighbors dogs best friends owner paid 12k for water, But I paid 400 for my connection, and that included the years membership to a water scheme.


On top of that, if your sign up to esb, they move poles for free.
Eircom charge to move poles.

dellas1979

B-D-P-- wrote: »

Ahh now, I'm sure somebody somewhere will say, My cousins neighbors dogs best friends owner paid 12k for water, But I paid 400 for my connection, and that included the years membership to a water scheme.

There are people out there now paying up to 12k for water connections.

My sister built 10 years ago, and it was e400.

All from the horses mouth so to speak.

:-D

The utilities are killing the ability to build. There seems to be some perception out there that if you build, youve lots of money/youre building "whats your problems", "take the charge and shut up". Shur whats another 12k.

People fought for water charges to be over turned. But that was ok cause everyone would be paying for water? So if you build and have to pay 12k, youre in a minority and just deal with it?

fits

I hope the water won’t be 12 k. We got an eir pole moved free of charge. It was badly placed to start with though. They tried to charge me before survey but I made my case. It should never have been put where it was so I probably had a strong argument.

We have two bathrooms. You probably don’t need three. Make the en suite a walk in wardrobe and have one upstairs one down. Should be plenty. That would save a couple of thousand.

B-D-P--

dellas1979 wrote: »

There are people out there now paying up to 12k for water connections.

Which people?
I've yet to hear of such high charges. Is it also connection to a sewerage waste?
FYI I have just joined water scheme this year, so its not an old price I paid

V0X

Approx outline of our water connection fees put to us:

3k to Irish Water to get work order for council
5.6k to civil engineer contractors trench dig, pavement reinstatement etc
3.3k to dlr co co which may or may not be refunded depending on if the contractors work holds up

Dardania

Perhaps you're bearing the brunt of Irish Water no longer charging everyone for consumption...they need to upfront money

Also, in reference to Calahonda52's post, I have seen similar situations with ESB Networks for commerical supplies. Basically, if you request an ESB connection for which they need to install extensive infrastructure like MV cabling, substation etc. they will charge you full rate for the actual cost of doing that (+ your normal connection cost at LV), and they re-imburse you as other new connections go onto the same connection. So, maybe you're paying back the install costs for the water network here...

Del2005

dellas1979 wrote: »

I

The cost of utilities is....insane. 1k to get a Eir pole moved. 2k for electricity connections/poles moved. Up to 12k for a water connection. Irish water wont give me an actual figure, which if it is 12k, can stop the build. Engineer/percolation fees. Land transfer fees. Solicitor fees.

Got in a few tenders already. Few came in on budget, except for the 13.5% VAT on top. Shoots it up.

Yep-was my choice to build. But all I can make are these faces right now :eek:

Am just freaking out maybe I wont have enough! Cause the trees in the garden dont grow notes.

How much do you think should be charged to isolate a circuit and dig out one pole and replace with another? Your looking at 3 people at least and 3 machines for at least a day.

dellas1979

B-D-P-- wrote: »

Which people?
I've yet to hear of such high charges.

Read this post. See my post. Council has told me. Ive research on internet.

Youre implying am making this up, because you dont have your own experience of this.

dellas1979

Del2005 wrote: »

How much do you think should be charged to isolate a circuit and dig out one pole and replace with another? Your looking at 3 people at least and 3 machines for at least a day.

So that's 1k+? Thats justifiyable?

Lets say, 1,200 / 8 hours = e150 per hour. Really.

kerryjack

Ya it's not simple anymore and I certainly wouldn't like to have to start all over again don't forget the outside, lawns Kerbs, tarmac, walls and gates and don't forget the garage, a house in the country is a money pit. A lot to be said for a 3 bed semi in the suburbs.

tonytoc11

I was quoted €60k to connect to mains water in cork recently. The 2 houses next door to my site are on the mains but nearest main is 300m away.

C3PO

Whatever about the water but €1,000 to move a pole does not sound unreasonable to me!

368100

dellas1979 wrote: »

Am building a 100 square meter home.

3 beds. 3 bathrooms. So modest, but nicely designed. Triple glaze. Heat pump/UFH, ventilation system. Will be an A3/C1 BER. Made the size smaller so the spec could be higher., energy-wise

I think the point of my post was missed by some. Its not the cost of the actual build that's killing it. Its the cost of utilities.

For example, have you built and been told youd probably have to pay 12k for a water connection (house it about 15 meters from the road/connection). Or paid 1k for a pole to be moved?

There was no way to budget for the water connection (I had researched and asked and was initially told around 2k. 2k jumped to 12k (advised by local council) once planning was gotton). Irish water wont tell you. Ive tried. Even considered getting solicitor onto them.

Seeing as youre full of words, Calahonda52, what is your experience with paying 12k for a water connection? Do I stop a build, having paid for everything else up to a tender, because I cant afford the utilities? Did you pay 12k for a water connection (ducting/piping/road part redoing) 15 meters from the road? Or maybe youve paid more.

Hope you don't mind me asking but what were you quoted for building?

dellas1979

368100 wrote: »

Hope you don't mind me asking but what were you quoted for building?

Thanks for reply. Id rather not divulge yet, until I have the tenders sorted. Dont think it would be fair if something was identifible

Curious why you want to know yourself though. Are you building?

60k for a connection :eek:

WHAT!

368100

dellas1979 wrote: »

Thanks for reply. Id rather not divulge yet, until I have the tenders sorted. Dont think it would be fair if something was identifible

Curious why you want to know yourself though. Are you building?

60k for a connection :eek:

WHAT!

I am building yes. Trying to sort a planning issue and then im ready to go, had planned to go direct but was curious about the price in going contract route. I know I could get them to quote but from experience no matter how clear you make it they still assume that youll go with them

John Charlie

council charge 24000 with Irish water charge of 14000. great incentive for people to build a house.

Dardania

John Charlie wrote: »

council charge 24000 with Irish water charge of 14000. great incentive for people to build a house.

It’s not an incentive - why do you think they should be incentivising stand alone houses?

mike_2009

How much for a well?
That IW cost is it for water & sewerage & storm water discharge? Or are you using a Septic tank?
You can use rainwater and do heavy filtration but you'll have to get it tested regularly and check the regs on this.
Look at your tender and when you approach the builder negotiate the finishes down. 50% of the cost is the structure, 50% roughly the finishes. That's where you'll have to cut to the bone, no carpet, no wooden floor, plain concrete with cheap rugs if you have to or carper ends and over 10 years you can replace with better finishes. The development costs all add up before you turn a single sod over to start building. My architect put up their prices 64%. Try that and see what it does to your budget.
Note: Irish Water are looking at harmonizing their connection charges country wide which means your price may move up to down depending.
Invest in a good structure and thermal envelope and get cheap cheap second hand or free interiors - bathroom, kitchen etc, donedeal it and other websites to get free stuff to get the house built. Remember to keep that contingency intact, you'll be glad one day you did.
Also be prepared to walk away from this dream, that can be the right decision also, maybe wait for the next crash and then go out to tender again...?
Best of luck....

dellas1979

Dardania wrote: »

It’s not an incentive - why do you think they should be incentivising stand alone houses?

Not to sound like a rocket scientist, but people need places to live?

Or where would you want me to live? A housing estate? These are in very limited supply at the moment. In the news, there is a housing crisis.

If you were in an estate, youd be further away from the mains than my house is to the mains. Yet Ill get the ****e charged out of me (and you can see worse from others posting here)

Do people think building a house is swanning around with a "dahling" accent going "*Only Pennies* Here's 12k/24k for a water connection and Id like guhld taps ta please"

I accept and no issue with what it costs to build, i.e., bricks, mortar, windows etc.

Its utilities and VAT pushing it all up. And as people can see here, others are having problems too.

I was told at the time, water charges would be around 2k. This then changed to 12k after I got planning. If I wanted to sink a well, Id have to back through 3 months of planning.

rn

Wells and water self sufficiency are OK in theory, but they have fairly high annual costs, from cost of water tests to filtration systems services. Then the well head needs to be kept dry, rainwater can't enter as surface water might contaminate the well. There are minimum distances from sewage treatment systems, again to avoid run off and post treatment system water entering the well. All this can be difficult to achieve on some sites. I've a few friends with wells and for our own build we will pay the substantial cost for mains water.

On budget, I don't see the point is separating out the costs of connecting to utilities and vat from the actual construction. Connecting to utilities is just another part of the process of achieving a house. What you had before are estimates and now what you have is actual costs. Due to construction inflation running very high at the moment, expect other parts of the build to come in well above the estimate. I think the days of the 10% contingency are over... It's closer to 20% now. I feel this is just one of these unexpected decisions you'll have to make that will have consequences in other parts of the build because total budget is limited, but you'll have to suck it up unfortunately. Vat is a reality of nearly every activity a private individual will under take. So just account for it.

The esb have historically been very upfront about charging the real cost of connecting to grid, but with other utilities, others have been fortunate to have relatively small connection fees in the past. However water and broadband charges have now caught up. I'm budgeting 30k for all those. But I'll be arguing with them all to try and drive down the connection costs as much as I can get. On vat, I'll try and engage some of the trades for cash as we have a sizeable cash reserve but many are operating in businesses and I'll have to pay the vat price.

Dardania

dellas1979 wrote: »

Dardania wrote: »

It’s not an incentive - why do you think they should be incentivising stand alone houses?

Not to sound like a rocket scientist, but people need places to live?

Or where would you want me to live? A housing estate? These are in very limited supply at the moment. In the news, there is a housing crisis.

If you were in an estate, youd be further away from the mains than my house is to the mains. Yet Ill get the ****e charged out of me (and you can see worse from others posting here)

Do people think building a house is swanning around with a "dahling" accent going "*Only Pennies* Here's 12k/24k for a water connection and Id like guhld taps ta please"

I accept and no issue with what it costs to build, i.e., bricks, mortar, windows etc.

Its utilities and VAT pushing it all up. And as people can see here, others are having problems too.

I was told at the time, water charges would be around 2k. This then changed to 12k after I got planning. If I wanted to sink a well, Id have to back through 3 months of planning.

I agree, there is a housing crisis, but surely there are more cost effective methods of subsidising housing to fix it - like subsidising large scale solutions, or social housing, rather than one-off houses. Imagine if one-off housing was heavily subsidised - would that be sustainable for the whole country?
It sounds like the civils costs are catching you here (and I feel your pain - you diligently checked the cost before launching into the work, to only be told a different number now) - if the government were to subsidise the civils costs, it would be more effective to subsidise the civils costs for an apartment development rather one off houses - far more people would be sorted out.
I think with the civil costs in a housing estate, they are lower because the developer typically hasn't finished surfaces installed etc. - compared to the road opening licenses, HSA plans etc. that are needed to connect to a utility mains on the public street. The length of the pipe isn't so huge a factor.
With VAT costs - that is a normal cost - did your budget costs quoted not show it accurately? I personally have been caught with builders not advising me of that in the past.

dellas1979

Dardania I take your points.

But what can a person do if there isnt a supply of grouped or housing estate houses?

Again, I dont have an issue with paying fair dues.

I just cant fathom for the life of me how or why they are so expensive, especially connection to a water supply.

You cant even dig the duct yourself (or get the duct dug for you, unlike the ESB). Id to pay e500 to get a duct dug for ESB (as some poles/wires needed to be moved). Connection fee and duct digging came to about 2.6k. Again, expensive enough. Doable. But no where near 12k.

Well, you can dig/get duct dug. But I was told by Irish Water that they would have to get someone to supervise. And by the time that's all added up, its into the 000s.

People went on marches to avoid paying what they saw as unfair water charges. But it seems now its new builds they are catching to make up their €s. And like, youre caught because you need water.

I just dont see where 12/24k charges are coming from. To lay a few meters of pipe.

These charges dont seem to be there/or be as wild pre-Irish Water.

Were these connections subsidised before? And if they werent, why are people building now forking out crazy money?

scwazrh

dellas1979 wrote: »

I just cant fathom for the life of me how or why they are so expensive, especially connection to a water supply.

As to why utilities are so expensive, There is no competition for esb networks or irish water so they establish their own costing formula and you've no choice to pay it.

kerryjack

Your information OP is very scatty to say the least. Is there watermains running along the road to front of site, where is nearest ESB Pole woundnt worry about eir you can survive with out them, what price per suare meter are you getting what her rating are you trying to acchive

dellas1979

kerryjack wrote: »

Your information OP is very scatty to say the least. Is there watermains running along the road to front of site, where is nearest ESB Pole woundnt worry about eir you can survive with out them, what price per suare meter are you getting what her rating are you trying to acchive

Or maybe you didnt read? Ive said most of this already. No probs to reiterate.

An you know you can just ask for additional information than lowering it to calling me scatty.

There was an ESB wire crossing the site. Had to be moved.
Eir pole where my entrance will be.
Building is out at tender/QS. Cant give you a cost per square meter. Its 100 square meters. A3/B1 rating. I wont have enough renewable energy resources to the house to push it up. Maybe in time.

Are you one of these people who has built/building or are you someone who bought. Do you know how much all the above entails/€s? Have you come across having to pay all these utilities? How did you get around them? Have you spoken to Irish water?

BorneTobyWilde

Could you not drill for your own water for less?

fits

I got self build magazine in the post today and it says Irish water plans to introduce a flat rate fee for both water and wastewater connection of €5300 in Q2 2018.

rodge123

dellas1979 wrote: »

Not to sound like a rocket scientist, but people need places to live?

Or where would you want me to live? A housing estate? These are in very limited supply at the moment. In the news, there is a housing crisis.

If you were in an estate, youd be further away from the mains than my house is to the mains. Yet Ill get the ****e charged out of me (and you can see worse from others posting here)

Do people think building a house is swanning around with a "dahling" accent going "*Only Pennies* Here's 12k/24k for a water connection and Id like guhld taps ta please"

I accept and no issue with what it costs to build, i.e., bricks, mortar, windows etc.

Its utilities and VAT pushing it all up. And as people can see here, others are having problems too.

I was told at the time, water charges would be around 2k. This then changed to 12k after I got planning. If I wanted to sink a well, Id have to back through 3 months of planning.

You won’t be a million miles away from 12k if you had to put your own well and septic tank / percolation in. We got away with bog standard tank and system and still came to 5k. Well was already on site

V0X

fits wrote: »

I got self build magazine in the post today and it says Irish water plans to introduce a flat rate fee for both water and wastewater connection of €5300 in Q2 2018.

Nice one:
https://selfbuild.ie/news/irish-water-plans-charge-e5k-flat-connection-fee/