Cheaper brand new iPhones, is it dodgy?

jasonb

Hi there,

Am thinking of getting an iPhone SE for a present for my wife. Money is tight, so I’m shopping around.

Apple themselves have it for €419.

Komplett have it for €319

There are a few sellers on Adverts that seem to be shops in Dublin City Centre (though they’re listed as ‘Private Sellers’ not ‘Shops’ on Adverts) who have them for cheaper again. All sealed and brand new with receipt etc.

So, I’ve heard of Komplett, and €100 is a good saving, but €150 is a better saving. Do I trust the Adverts Sellers, is there anything I can do to ensure the Phone I’d be buying off them is legit, before I buy it?

Thanks...

Gumbo

Check the sellers feedback and what other items they sale.
Possible they have been brought in for cheaper countries.

Will work perfect but may have some weird warranty issues.

claregal1

jasonb wrote: »

Hi there,

Am thinking of getting an iPhone SE for a present for my wife. Money is tight, so I’m shopping around.

Apple themselves have it for €419.

Komplett have it for €319

There are a few sellers on Adverts that seem to be shops in Dublin City Centre (though they’re listed as ‘Private Sellers’ not ‘Shops’ on Adverts) who have them for cheaper again. All sealed and brand new with receipt etc.

So, I’ve heard of Komplett, and €100 is a good saving, but €150 is a better saving. Do I trust the Adverts Sellers, is there anything I can do to ensure the Phone I’d be buying off them is legit, before I buy it?

Thanks...

I got my son a second hand IPhone 6S with 12 months warranty from one of the second hand phone shops for 350 .. might be worth checking them out .

jasonb

Thanks for your replies.

I'd prefer to get a new phone if I can. Is it safe to assume that if the phone is sealed in the box etc. that it's not just a 2nd hand phone in a resealed box? Is the IMEI on the box, so I could check it?

One of the sellers has been on adverts for a couple of years, has fully postive fedback, though only a small sample size in total, all for phones, and currently has several ads for different types of phones, and mentions their shop in Dublin 1 in one of tbem.

I just want to make sure I'm not missing something obvious. I used Adverts a good bit and never been stung, but I've heard stories of course (not just on Adverts, any online selling site). You mention weird warranty issues, like what? If the phone is from a diffrent country, could the charger be different to the Irish one?

Thanks...

beauf

The charger is easily replaced.

Theres been a few threads on these cheap new iPhones and I don't think there was ever a proper answer as how they are sourced.

waynegalway

Argos had the SE at €349 for a while recently. Maybe not as cheap as you'd like, but arguably more reliable? Not sure if they'll do that price again, but worth checking.

jasonb

Just a quick update on this. Visited a few of these shops today (found them all on Adverts and went with the ones with the best prices/feedback). Eventually picked one of them and got a new SE 32GB for €300. It was sealed, but I opened the box and it all looks legit. Checked the IEMI and Serial Number online and they all check out. It's a present but I'll probably set it up to make sure there's nothing else dodgy and then wipe it again. But so far so good, I have a receipt from the shop in case I find anything dodgy.

Thanks for the advice...

whiterebel

Check the warranty information on tha Apple site. If it’s not bought in Ireland it will say it’s not covered under consumer Laws, but has a 1 year warranty.

jasonb

The shop said it has a 1 Year Warranty with Apple. When I check the Serial Number on the Apple Website it says that it hasn't been registered yet. I presume it might tell me more once I activate the phone?

What's the difference between the 1 Year Apple Warranty and what I woud have got if I'd bought it in an Apple Store?

whiterebel

If it’s bought in Ireland you are covered by Irish Consumer Law -The Sale of Goods Act 1980. The 1 year warranty is additional to your statutory rights. Have a look at the warranty info page on the Apple site, all is revealed.

Franz Von Peppercorn

I can’t see where’s the difference since you bought it in Ireland.

ED E

Just remember if they're sourcing "upgrades" from the public, or insurance replacements, they can be nuked at a later date if the bill is unpaid or reported stolen. You have no protection against this other than going back to the seller (so some ephemeral shop is no good).

jasonb

I was thinking the same, I did buy the the phone in Ireland, so shouldn't it be covered by Irish Consumer Laws? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious here?

And what do you mean if they're sourcing upgrades or Insurance Replacement? Who is they? Do you mean the shop got them cheaper by getting upgrades/replacements? And we could be left without a phone if Apple then decide to nuke the phone 'cos it's a stolen one? Or am I taking you up wrong?

faceman

jasonb wrote: »

I was thinking the same, I did buy the the phone in Ireland, so shouldn't it be covered by Irish Consumer Laws? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious here?

Yes assuming you bought it brand new in an Irish store then you are covered by the Sales of Goods act.

Oxter

faceman wrote: »

Yes assuming you bought it brand new in an Irish store then you are covered by the Sales of Goods act.

Check the vat number on the receipt on www.vatcheck.eu.

cnocbui

Sales and Goods act can't offer less protection than afforded by EU legislation so effectively you have a minimum 2 year warranty, which the shop has to make good on.

Oxter

cnocbui wrote: »

Sales and Goods act can't offer less protection than afforded by EU legislation so effectively you have a minimum 2 year warranty, which the shop has to make good on.

Eu leglislation only offers protection to end users who have a EU invoice with a valid vat number.

cnocbui

Oxter wrote: »

Eu leglislation only offers protection to end users who have a EU invoice with a valid vat number.

If you are meaning to say that the legislation only applies to retailers/resellers, then I believe you are mistaken.

Oxter

cnocbui wrote: »

If you are meaning to say that the legislation only applies to retailers/resellers, then I believe you are mistaken.

The savings on new phones by unapproved Apple resellers corresponds almost exactly to the vat charged by Apple.

cnocbui

Oxter wrote: »

The savings on new phones by unapproved Apple resellers corresponds almost exactly to the vat charged by Apple.

The price of goats milk in Kazakhstan has increased by 4% in the last three months.

Oxter

cnocbui wrote: »

The price of goats milk in Kazakhstan has increased by 4% in the last three months.

Are the goats there milked by apple devices?

jasonb

jasonb wrote: »

And what do you mean if they're sourcing upgrades or Insurance Replacement? Who is they? Do you mean the shop got them cheaper by getting upgrades/replacements? And we could be left without a phone if Apple then decide to nuke the phone 'cos it's a stolen one? Or am I taking you up wrong?

One way these shops can get new phones is if someone is due an upgrade but they don't necessarily want it. They take the upgrade, sell it to the shop, then the shop onsells.

If the person who took the upgrade decides to stop paying their bill during the next 2 years of their contract, their network will blacklist the device.

cnocbui

Oxter wrote: »

Are the goats there milked by apple devices?

Only if they buy them.

Oxter

Basil3 wrote: »

One way these shops can get new phones is if someone is due an upgrade but they don't necessarily want it. They take the upgrade, sell it to the shop, then the shop onsells.

If the person who took the upgrade decides to stop paying their bill during the next 2 years of their contract, their network will blacklist the device.

Upgrade and insurance phones are network locked.

cnocbui

Basil3 wrote: »

One way these shops can get new phones is if someone is due an upgrade but they don't necessarily want it. They take the upgrade, sell it to the shop, then the shop onsells.

If the person who took the upgrade decides to stop paying their bill during the next 2 years of their contract, their network will blacklist the device.

A lot of inexplicably cheap goods that appear genuine are actually refurbished.

jasonb

Checked the receipt, no VAT number on it at all.

That’s interesting about the upgrades Basil3. So the ‘upgrade’ is still linked to the first person’s account (the person who sold it shop) even if it’s now being used in a different country (the first option of Country on the phone when setting it up was Germany, so I’m guessing it’s from there?), on someone else’s SIM card with a Monthly Bill, and on someone else’s Apple ID?

The phone itself is working so far, it’s now Activated, I can see the 1 Year Apple Warranty has kicked in online, the Apple ID etc. is set up on it, so no issues so far. Will be keeping an eye on it for a few weeks to see if I spot anything strange.

Oxter

cnocbui wrote: »

Only if they buy them.

Like us all

Oxter

jasonb wrote: »

Checked the receipt, no VAT number on it at all.

That’s interesting about the upgrades Basil3. So the ‘upgrade’ is still linked to the first person’s account (the person who sold it shop) even if it’s now being used in a different country (the first option of Country on the phone when setting it up was Germany, so I’m guessing it’s from there?), on someone else’s SIM card with a Monthly Bill, and on someone else’s Apple ID?

The phone itself is working so far, it’s now Activated, I can see the 1 Year Apple Warranty has kicked in online, the Apple ID etc. is set up on it, so no issues so far. Will be keeping an eye on it for a few weeks to see if I spot anything strange.

Ask them for their vat number. A bill phone or upgrade should be network locked.

cnocbui

Oxter wrote: »

Like us all

Exactly, which is why I use a SH Samsung flagship.

jasonb

How do I check if it’s Network Locked?

Oxter

jasonb wrote: »

How do I check if it’s Network Locked?

Try a SIM card from a different network.

With no quoted vat number and with the phone showing Germany when you unboxed, I would ask the shop about both. Did you pay by card or cash?

EdgeCase

If it's bought from inside the EU you've protection but you'll have to deal with the European Consumer Centre ECC Ireland to find out how to enforce your rights in another EU country.

Your warranty and recourse is ONLY through the retailer. Anything Apple offer as a manufacturer warranty is above and beyond statutory rights, unless they sold you the phone.

They're completely within their rights not to offer any sort of warranty if you didn't go through their official channels, as you've a contract with a third party retailer who they've nothing to do with. Your contract of sale is with whoever you bought it from only.

If you bought from outside the EU, it's just buyer beware. You've no real ability to enforce anything legally at all.

jasonb

Paid by cash. Will have to see if I can find a SIM from another Network. If it is Network locked, is it just sheer luck that it’s working for me (on Vodafone) and if it had been locked to another Network it wouldn’t have worked? They did say in the Shop that it was unlocked, but I’ll check that obviously. If it is locked, does that cause any hassle, assuming we don’t leave Vodafone? Could I contact Vodafone and ask them to unlock it?

Bottom line, what are the effects of no VAT Number, phone from Germany, and if it’s also Network Locked? Are they only issues if something goes wrong, or are they issues either way? For example, I got an iPad years ago in Seattle and brought it home. So its ‘home’ country was the US, but that never caused me any issues?

Thanks for all this advice, it’s very interesting, and I’m just hoping I haven’t walked into a minefield.

Oxter

Oxter wrote: »

Upgrade and insurance phones are network locked.

The only insurance replacement I've ever had (from Vodafone) wasn't network locked. I sold it boxed.

rizzee

You'll be fine, i've bought a lot of phones from these sellers (i've bought 5 Galaxy S8's for family members from one seller in particular since last August)

They are grey market imports so avoid certain taxes and charges, along with buying the phones in bulk they can keep costs down compared to Official shops.

jasonb

Thanks... Everything seems to be fine, I've checked with Vodafone and they unlocked the phone etc. So far the phone itself is perfect, and I can't find anything wrong with it online in terms of its 'status' (i.e. locked/stolen whatever). From what I can see the only thing I'm exposed to is 'will the shop still be there if something breaks and I have to bring it back'.

dodzy

The phones are perfectly fine. They are not upgrades or returns although these shops do sell them but they are clearly advertised as such. Many are locked to Vodafone but the unlock request is processed very quickly. You are not paying VAT, neither are they. Your receipt will reflect this.

IamMetaldave

dodzy wrote: »

The phones are perfectly fine. They are not upgrades or returns although these shops do sell them but they are clearly advertised as such. Many are locked to Vodafone but the unlock request is processed very quickly. You are not paying VAT, neither are they. Your receipt will reflect this.

How can they not charge VAT, that's what puzzles me.

Oxter

IamMetaldave wrote: »

How can they not charge VAT, that's what puzzles me.

They are illegally operating as tax evaders - pop up shops.

The turnover threshold for having to register for vat is €75k per annum, not a lot of iPhones.

Pkiernan

Not sure how saving €50 is worth so much hassle and worry.

Grab All Association

Absolutely ridiculous pricing. I didn’t want to bring my 7 to the states so I bought the SE brand new on Verizon for $199 32GB 2016 that was. Verizon CDMA (since iPhone 4s) phones now support GSM and are unlocked too.

Their only $129 there now.

Oxter

Grab All Association wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous pricing. I didn’t want to bring my 7 to the states so I bought the SE brand new on Verizon for $199 32GB 2016 that was. Verizon CDMA (since iPhone 4s) phones now support GSM and are unlocked too.

Their only $129 there now.

Verizonwireless have the SE for $159 as a prepay but it’s locked to their network.

dodzy

Pkiernan wrote: »

Not sure how saving €50 is worth so much hassle and worry.

On the top tier phones, the saving is well in excess of €50.