Confused about p21 and form 12 tax refund

martin123123

Hi, i set up an account on revenue to claim tax back from 2017. i have filled in everthing in form 12 and i am at the last part of the process (part 5 of declaration) it is asking me to confirm the same amount for personal tax credit and employee tax credit. I dont see any obvious mention of refund owed. I'm worried if i press confirm it will all turn into tax credits or something. Does anyone know how i am to proceed from this point the get my refund?

Any advice is much appreciated.

nokia3310

Any refund you are owed is not calculated when you are completing your tax return. The page you are referring to lists your tax credits for the year which for a PAYE worker would be 1,650 for personal and employee tax credit, the Form 12 is just asking you to confirm you are entitled to those credits.

If you overpaid tax it will just come to you in a lump sum, not in the form of extra tax credits or anything like that. Just click confirm on those credits and submit the form and when the P21 is generated (you will get an email notification when this happens) it will give you the result.

Bubbaclaus

You can amend your Form 12 as many times as you like up to 4 years after the tax year ends, so just bash away at it for a while.

Ronanh87

Iv also recently applied for tax relief of fees for every year over the last 4. My p21 for each relevant year keeps coming back as balanced. However on each p21 there is no mention of the amount of tax relief due to fees that I'm claiming for .

So my questions are ....are p21s automatically generated each time you change your details to show what you are owed.

Does it take long for revenue to furnish you with a new p21?


Any advice would be great

relax carry on

Ronanh87 wrote: »

Iv also recently applied for tax relief of fees for every year over the last 4. My p21 for each relevant year keeps coming back as balanced. However on each p21 there is no mention of the amount of tax relief due to fees that I'm claiming for .

So my questions are ....are p21s automatically generated each time you change your details to show what you are owed.

Does it take long for revenue to furnish you with a new p21?


Any advice would be great

The P21 is automatically issued after you have submitted changes online. Did you pay paye tax in each of the years you are inputting claims for?

Ronanh87

relax carry on wrote: »

The P21 is automatically issued after you have submitted changes online. Did you pay paye tax in each of the years you are inputting claims for?

Yes for every year applicable!!

I'm trying to find information to see if there's a threshold of same to meet to become eligible.

I only applied last Friday so maybe it's been processed ? I don't know

Ronanh87

Ronanh87 wrote: »

Yes for every year applicable!!

I'm trying to find information to see if there's a threshold of same to meet to become eligible.

I only applied last Friday so maybe it's been processed ? I don't know

Also the automatic p21 won't show the reliefs I'm guessing ?

relax carry on

Ronanh87 wrote: »

Yes for every year applicable!!

I'm trying to find information to see if there's a threshold of same to meet to become eligible.

I only applied last Friday so maybe it's been processed ? I don't know

Did you complete a form 12 tax return online for each year and input your tuition fee figure?

The link below outlines the relief available. If your claims were valid and above the disregard limits and are not showing on the P21 issued since last Friday then us contact Revenue.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/education/tuition-fees-paid-for-third-level-education/how-do-you-calculate-the-relief.aspx

Ronanh87

relax carry on wrote: »

Did you complete a form 12 tax return online for each year and input your tuition fee figure?

The link below outlines the relief available. If your claims were valid and above the disregard limits and are not showing on the P21 issued since last Friday then us contact Revenue.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/education/tuition-fees-paid-for-third-level-education/how-do-you-calculate-the-relief.aspx

Ya if I don't hear anything back by Friday il ring then Monday.

I have applied the fees for each particular year yes. I even confirmed each year again tonight.

Any idea what the hold up could be ?
Or is there a chance it's still being processed.

I'm thinking the p21 should at least state that I applied for relief for fees. The fact that there is no mention leaves me wondering. Any thoughts ?

relax carry on

Ronanh87 wrote: »

Ya if I don't hear anything back by Friday il ring then Monday.

I have applied the fees for each particular year yes. I even confirmed each year again tonight.

Any idea what the hold up could be ?
Or is there a chance it's still being processed.

I'm thinking the p21 should at least state that I applied for relief for fees. The fact that there is no mention leaves me wondering. Any thoughts ?

The P21 is the end result of the submission. It shows your submission was processed. Did you get a P21 for each year? Check the details on page two showing pay and tax details to ensure they are correct. Check your credits/reliefs etc on page two also. Page two is where you should show the tuition relief granted.

Ronanh87

relax carry on wrote: »

The P21 is the end result of the submission. It shows your submission was processed. Did you get a P21 for each year? Check the details on page two showing pay and tax details to ensure they are correct. Check your credits/reliefs etc on page two also. Page two is where you should show the tuition relief granted.

On each year on the second page of any page , there is no mention of the fees which has me puzzled all together.

relax carry on

Ronanh87 wrote: »

On each year on the second page of any page , there is no mention of the fees which has me puzzled all together.

Drop them a line time. Use the myenquiries function.

Ronanh87

relax carry on wrote: »

Drop them a line time. Use the myenquiries function.

Yes I will do. Strange though . Thanks for your help

Ronanh87

Something's nawing at me that maybe I didn't do it right if it's not showing up...

Ronanh87

Iv just came across a form called it31 which I wasn't aware of and wasn't told about online, judging by this I need to download it and send it to my tax office.

I was sure I read somewhere that applying for relief of tuition fees online using the paye anytime service would suffice!.

relax carry on

Ronanh87 wrote: »

Iv just came across a form called it31 which I wasn't aware of and wasn't told about online, judging by this I need to download it and send it to my tax office.

I was sure I read somewhere that applying for relief of tuition fees online using the paye anytime service would suffice!.

You read correctly per the information on the Revenue website.


"How to apply if you are a PAYE taxpayer
You can use myAccount to complete a Form 12 tax return for the year you wish to claim for. You can do this by following these steps:

Sign into myAccount
click the 'Review your tax' link in PAYE Services
select the Form 12 for the relevant tax year
in the ‘Tax Credits & Reliefs’ page select ‘Tuition Fees’ and add it as a tax credit.


You can instead send a written claim using Form IT31, to your Revenue office."

If that's not correct, then request they update their website.

Ronanh87

relax carry on wrote: »

You read correctly per the information on the Revenue website.


"How to apply if you are a PAYE taxpayer
You can use myAccount to complete a Form 12 tax return for the year you wish to claim for. You can do this by following these steps

Sign into myAccount
click the 'Review your tax' link in PAYE Services
select the Form 12 for the relevant tax year
in the ‘Tax Credits & Reliefs’ page select ‘Tuition Fees’ and add it as a tax credit.


You can instead send a written claim using Form IT31, to your Revenue office."

If that's not correct, then request they update their website.

You seem to know what your talking about ,

Can you see or think of any reason why my fees haven't been applied or even taken into consideration?

relax carry on

Ronanh87 wrote: »

You seem to know what your talking about ,

Can you see or think of any reason why my fees haven't been applied or even taken into consideration?

Unless they have been pulled for verification I can't think why. Easiest thing is to just contact them via my equiries and ask why the haven't been included.

Ronanh87

relax carry on wrote: »

Unless they have been pulled for verification I can't think why. Easiest thing is to just contact them via my equiries and ask why the haven't been included.

I sent them a mail through my enquiries , that could take forever ( in the next 20 days and not over 28 days to get back to you)

If they were pulled for verification would it not of said on the p21 that no relief due if I wasn't eligible or even show the relief I'm claiming for was taking into account

I'm 99% sure I'm due unless Iv missed something.


If I don't get satisfactory response by Monday lunch il ring them.

Il send a it31 with my receipts regardless too.

My experience with state bodies is sometimes you have to keep trying until you get the answer you want.

The Diddakoi

Ronanh87 wrote: »

I sent them a mail through my enquiries , that could take forever ( in the next 20 days and not over 28 days to get back to you)

If they were pulled for verification would it not of said on the p21 that no relief due if I wasn't eligible or even show the relief I'm claiming for was taking into account

I'm 99% sure I'm due unless Iv missed something.


If I don't get satisfactory response by Monday lunch il ring them.

Il send a it31 with my receipts regardless too.

My experience with state bodies is sometimes you have to keep trying until you get the answer you want.

How much is the claim for? There is a disregard of the first €3000 for a full time course, and €1500 for a part time course.

Ronanh87

alf66 wrote: »

How much is the claim for? There is a disregard of the first €3000 for a full time course, and €1500 for a part time course.

I exceed the disregard limit for each relevant year. So I am really puzzled. Each year varies because I got help with then final years fees from my current job.

The J Stands for Jay

Ronanh87 wrote: »

You seem to know what your talking about ,

Can you see or think of any reason why my fees haven't been applied or even taken into consideration?

They have a minimum amount that you need to pay in order to get tax credits. They kept increasing it over the last few years...

Bubbaclaus

Possibly a stupid question, but did you add the credit when preparing the eForm 12 and tick the box to confirm it? Did it show up in the final review page? Since the P21 issuing is essentially automated I'm struggling to see what has happened.

Ronanh87

The minimum amount could be it but I don't see any limits or thresholds to reach in order to qualify. But if what your saying is correct maybe that's it.

And yes I ticked every box and it's in my final decorations for each relevant year.

wiggle16

If you included the tuition fees in your Form 12, even if you do it correctly, it does not mean they will show on the balancing statement. What I mean by that, is that if your standard credits already covered your liability to tax, there would be no tax left over to refund, and the fees therefore cannot be used to calculate your liability, because there is no tax liability left to put them against. Anything that isn't used in the calculation will NOT show on the balancing statement.

For example: Let's say I make €17500 in 2017. This will be taxed at 20%.

- So then let's say I have a gross tax liability of €3500, before credits, for the year (3500 is 20% of 17500).
- My standard credits are the Personal credit of €1650, and the PAYE credit of €1650 = €3300 credits.

3500 - 3300 = 200

- This leaves me with €200 tax. And I paid it over the course of the year through my wages.

- Then I do a P21 to claim my tuition fees of €4000. This gives me a credit of €200 (4000 less 3000 deduction = 1000 @20% = 200).

So I now have an extra credit of €200, which covers my liability to tax, and I will get back the €200 that I paid, as a refund. And €200 tuition fees will show on my P21 statement, because it was used in calculating my liability.

But, if my gross tax liability is €3300 before credits:
- I do my Form 12
- And get my personal credit of 1650
- And get my PAYE credit of 1650
At this point, these credits have already wiped out my liability to tax. There is no more tax to put credits against.
- And then I add my tuition fee credit of €200.

The 200 tuition fee credit will not show on the P21, because the calculation of how much tax was due was already finished when I added my standard credits. There was no more tax to set credits against. And therefore there will be no refund, because either I didn't pay tax or was not due to pay tax.

P21s are usually correct. The Form 12 is just a calculator, and it uses the numbers you put into it to come up with an answer. If you don't get a refund it usually means you weren't due to get one, and if something doesn't show on the P21 it's because the calculator didn't need it to come up with the answer.

I hope that makes things clearer.