Second hand steel frame for touring bike?

John Hutton

Looking to build ( or outright buy) a touring bike. Will be used for three weeks around Spain and then for a lengthy enough commute and possible future tours ( this will be my first).

Budget is an issue in that when I use it for commuting I want to be more inconvenienced , rather than heartbroken, when it's nicked (been there )

Ideally I'd like to buy a cheap second hand steel frame and build it up, but this is where I'm ignorant. An old Dawes galaxy would be ideal but they seem few and far between on done deal. (Any other sites I should check?)

Can anyone suggest what other second hand bike models I could look at which would have a decent frame?

A friend suggested just buying this off the peg:
https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/bikes/urban/product/review-adventure-flat-white-49875/

Seems decent value, but I want a butterfly or flat handlebar and would also want lower gearing. Now, I'm more than happy to make those changes myself , but if I am going to be changing handlebars, shifters, derailers, cassettes etc it seems to me I would be just as well buying a frame and building up....

Any suggestions?

magicbastarder

that link is incomplete.

John Hutton

magicbastarder wrote: »

that link is incomplete.

Sorry it should work now? But it's Adventure Flat White if you Google that

RobFowl

Feck second hand, buy one of theses for €200 or so and build up...

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRPXKBD2/planet-x-kaffenback-2-frameset
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRPXLONRODDP/planet-x-london-road-frameset

Kaffenback esp is bombproof

Alek

Kaffenback tyre clearance is 32mm max afaik. London Road should be better, but I'm not sure how would it handle a straight handlebar and heavy loads...

RobFowl

Alek wrote: »

Kaffenback tyre clearance is 32mm max afaik. London Road should be better, but I'm not sure how would it handle a straight handlebar and heavy loads...

I'd tour commute on 28s but thats just me

If you are 5ft 9 or so and would like to use a canti carbon Ridley cross bike with sks's for touring make me an offer

John Hutton

Many thanks for the replys so far.

Another consideration is that were to buy a new bike I can use the bike to work scheme...

Kaffenback seems interesting, but if I were to buy that, then wheels etc etc etc I'll be pushing 600 or 700 I'd say (easily) whereas I can a full bike for only a little more (or even less with the one linked earlier) and upgrade as I go along.

But then I'd have the exact bike I wanted straight away! But if I'm not going cheap and cheerful I'd nearly just spend a bit more on a long haul trucker or one of the better Dawes

Macy0161

They also have the holdsworth brevet, which seems similar money to the one you linked, only sora rather than tourney?

The kaffenback flat bar with nx-1 though...

RobFowl

The Dawes Galaxy is a fantastic bike, decades of experience in them and will go for years and years.
If you can get one of them on the BTW go for them.

John Hutton

RobFowl wrote: »

The Dawes Galaxy is a fantastic bike, decades of experience in them and will go for years and years.
If you can get one of them on the BTW go for them.

Even the aluminium frame ones? They are cheap enough...

But I had kind of decieded on steel.

ford2600

John Hutton wrote: »

Even the aluminium frame ones? They are cheap enough...

But I had kind of decieded on steel.

Do you want a bike for full on touring or credit card? Disc or non disc? Dynamo lights or not (good idea on commuter or touring bike)? Mudguards or not?

Genesis/Condor audax type bikes if fully kitted would be somewhere in the middle goround between a typical road bike and full on tourer (with it's longer chainstays)

If credit card you'll have a lot of options.

I would try the classified section of yacf.co.uk or lfgss; I recently spotted a 56cm dawes, with quality dynamo and lights for about £600 I think on yacf.

Buy something decent 2nd hand and learn how to lock your bike properly!

John Hutton

ford2600 wrote: »

Do you want a bike for full on touring or credit card? Disc or non disc? Dynamo lights or not (good idea on commuter or touring bike)? Mudguards or not?

Genesis/Condor audax type bikes if fully kitted would be somewhere in the middle goround between a typical road bike and full on tourer (with it's longer chainstays)

If credit card you'll have a lot of options.

I would try the classified section of yacf.co.uk or lfgss; I recently spotted a 56cm dawes, with quality dynamo and lights for about £600 I think on yacf.

Buy something decent 2nd hand and learn how to lock your bike properly!

I want a touring bike, I will not be staying in hotels very much at all, so tent etc. flat or butterfly handlebars, not disk brakes, dynamo would be nice but not too pushed, mudguards are a yes, I want a long chain stay and will fit front and rear panniers. Upright riding positon is what I'm after. Need a decent gear range, happy enough to crawl along uphill as long as I keep moving! Even when commuting I'll be hauling a fair amount of stuff as I work between a few offices.
I will check those sites, many thanks for your help.

magicbastarder

probably the wrong size for you (XS) but this is asking €650 and is not budging...

https://www.adverts.ie/road-bikes/genesis-croix-de-fer-20-2017/13873634

John Hutton

Weepsie wrote: »

How tall are you OP? Might help with people's recommendations

eBay might be your best bet, or the other forums mentioned above. I saw some Hewitt Cheviots and a Claude Butler Dalesman frameset at reasonable prices when looking recently, I couldn't get them delivered to here though. Plenty of old Dawe's too.

I'm six foot... I've looked on eBay but they all seem to be collection only

John Hutton

Weepsie wrote: »

What about the Roux Etape? Available in 55.

https://www.edinburghbicycle.com/roux-etape-250.html

Now that seems very good value, I'd just have to swop the shifters and handlebars... That's a good shout, thanks very much

paul a newman

i have a red hewitt audax frameset 56cm with brakes and a fsa triple chainset if your interested

roadster5

Hi - i have an old Dawes Super Galaxy - large frame size with mudguards and front and back carriers - needs a clean and some slight work - that i might be interestd in selling - it is nearly 30 years old though !!

cdaly_

John Hutton wrote: »

I want a touring bike, I will not be staying in hotels very much at all, so tent etc. flat or butterfly handlebars, not disk brakes, dynamo would be nice but not too pushed, mudguards are a yes

I would choose to be pushed about a dynamo. From the commuting POV you have permanent lighting and never need search for batteries. From the touring POV, you can add a USB power source so you can charge devices as you ride as there's no guarantee that you'll find power to charge at the end of the day.

John Hutton

cdaly_ wrote: »

I would choose to be pushed about a dynamo. From the commuting POV you have permanent lighting and never need search for batteries. From the touring POV, you can add a USB power source so you can charge devices as you ride as there's no guarantee that you'll find power to charge at the end of the day.

That's a very good point... I have very good lights already but they have to be charged... Last thing you want in the middle of nowhere at night

John Hutton

roadster5 wrote: »

Hi - i have an old Dawes Super Galaxy - large frame size with mudguards and front and back carriers - needs a clean and some slight work - that i might be interestd in selling - it is nearly 30 years old though !!

Would have interest, sent you a PM there

John Hutton

https://touch.adverts.ie/hybrid-bikes/old-school-raleigh-gents-bike/13051425

What do we make of this, 100 quid.

RobFowl

John Hutton wrote: »

https://touch.adverts.ie/hybrid-bikes/old-school-raleigh-gents-bike/13051425

What do we make of this, 100 quid.

Low end pressed steel frame and basic components ever for its era. Was a decent commuter bike in its day but now past it...

John Hutton

RobFowl wrote: »

Low end pressed steel frame and basic components ever for its era. Was a decent commuter bike in its day but now past it...

Yeah thought as much... It's a pity I don't live in the UK, there's a million Dawes bikes available for very little on eBay... All collection only.

RobFowl

John Hutton wrote: »

Yeah thought as much... It's a pity I don't live in the UK, there's a million Dawes bikes available for very little on eBay... All collection only.

Keep an eye out, they do pop up from time to time.

...And Dumber

John Hutton wrote: »

Looking to build ( or outright buy) a touring bike. Will be used for three weeks around Spain and then for a lengthy enough commute and possible future tours ( this will be my first).

Budget is an issue in that when I use it for commuting I want to be more inconvenienced , rather than heartbroken, when it's nicked (been there )

Ideally I'd like to buy a cheap second hand steel frame and build it up, but this is where I'm ignorant. An old Dawes galaxy would be ideal but they seem few and far between on done deal. (Any other sites I should check?)

Can anyone suggest what other second hand bike models I could look at which would have a decent frame?

Any suggestions?

Hi John

I've done what you're seeking to do - developed a touring bike that is also used for commuting.

Older (rigid) mountain bikes have very similar dimensions to modern "Touring" bikes. I got an old Trek MTB and built it up to my own needs. (I had already done about 6-7000 kms touring on an old alu framed hybrid. Mine dates from the early/mid 90's and is similar to something like this .... Darn! New user can't post URLs. Check Donedeal, rigid mountainbike, seller is Andre in Cork

An old bike like this (if in good condition) is robust and tough, yet simple to maintain. Parts are easy to get (Ebay becomes your friend). The gearing is already good for touring, yet it's nippy enough for commuting. It can take big tyres with no issue. A lot of "Touring bikes" max out at 2 inches or thereabouts. Bigger tyres give you more off-road options and with no suspension can add significantly to the comfort of the ride. Important when you're touring as opposed to just going for a ride!

If you want to carry 4 bags touring, then you need to consider the wheels. Chances are, the stock wheels will not bear well with a heavy load. Check out SJSCycles in the UK (they make the Thorn touring bikes). You can get handmade touring wheels (including a dynamo) for very good prices. then you use the original wheels for commuting and keep the good ones for a tour! I think I paid ballpark 300 a couple of years ago.

Other than wheels, a bike like this is ready to go. No problem mounting a rack on the back, and there are a lot of options for a front rack too. (No braze ons on the fork).

As above, I'd recommend a a hub dynamo. Then you'll always have lights and the option to charge devices as you go. The great freedom of touring on a bike with a tent is that you can stop wherever you fancy. With dynamo charging that becomes easier.

I tried Butterfly bars on mine, but never toured on them. Just didn't suit me. I use the original MTB handlebars with bar ends.

If you look around online there is a lot of information about converting old bikes for Touring.

I've no idea what your mechanical experience is (mine was non-existent), but playing around with this old bike has really boosted my confidence - no harm when you're on the road in a strange place.

Another advantage of an old bike, especially when it looks old and well used is that it's less likely to be stolen!

Spain is fantastic for touring! Very respectful drivers, great sights, fantastic food! Campsites can be packed very tight, but I really enjoyed my time there. Helmets are compulsory! Be careful - you may enjoy yourself so much you'll want to keep touring! :-)

Oh! And for commuting? I have a 42km (total) commute every day. Winter or summer the MTB is the business!

Tigerandahalf

You don't need to spend a lot of money.
I bought a Carrera Parva hybrid bike from Halfords for about €300 - now selling for about €260 there.

I then added various bits myself over time.
Mudguards
Bar ends
Mirror on bar end
Rear rack
Battery lights

The dearest things I bought were Ortlieb panniers and a handlebar bag.

The above bike has a triple chainring, so ideal for hills/touring. It has wide tyres - close to 2". Maybe not ideal for speed but great for taking weight and bumps. It is difficult to get full mudguards but I diy'd stuff myself.

I prefer flat bars with bar ends. It gives more control on twisty ground.

I am now considering getting a Brooks B17 leather saddle as the existing saddle is not really suitable for long days in the saddle.

John Hutton

Here's something a bit unusual.

https://touch.adverts.ie/mountain-bikes/ktm-v-old-bike-but-immaculate-condition/14949908

John Hutton

...And Dumber wrote: »

Hi John

I've done what you're seeking to do - developed a touring bike that is also used for commuting.

Older (rigid) mountain bikes have very similar dimensions to modern "Touring" bikes. I got an old Trek MTB and built it up to my own needs. (I had already done about 6-7000 kms touring on an old alu framed hybrid. Mine dates from the early/mid 90's and is similar to something like this .... Darn! New user can't post URLs. Check Donedeal, rigid mountainbike, seller is Andre in Cork

An old bike like this (if in good condition) is robust and tough, yet simple to maintain. Parts are easy to get (Ebay becomes your friend). The gearing is already good for touring, yet it's nippy enough for commuting. It can take big tyres with no issue. A lot of "Touring bikes" max out at 2 inches or thereabouts. Bigger tyres give you more off-road options and with no suspension can add significantly to the comfort of the ride. Important when you're touring as opposed to just going for a ride!

If you want to carry 4 bags touring, then you need to consider the wheels. Chances are, the stock wheels will not bear well with a heavy load. Check out SJSCycles in the UK (they make the Thorn touring bikes). You can get handmade touring wheels (including a dynamo) for very good prices. then you use the original wheels for commuting and keep the good ones for a tour! I think I paid ballpark 300 a couple of years ago.

Other than wheels, a bike like this is ready to go. No problem mounting a rack on the back, and there are a lot of options for a front rack too. (No braze ons on the fork).

As above, I'd recommend a a hub dynamo. Then you'll always have lights and the option to charge devices as you go. The great freedom of touring on a bike with a tent is that you can stop wherever you fancy. With dynamo charging that becomes easier.

I tried Butterfly bars on mine, but never toured on them. Just didn't suit me. I use the original MTB handlebars with bar ends.

If you look around online there is a lot of information about converting old bikes for Touring.

I've no idea what your mechanical experience is (mine was non-existent), but playing around with this old bike has really boosted my confidence - no harm when you're on the road in a strange place.

Another advantage of an old bike, especially when it looks old and well used is that it's less likely to be stolen!

Spain is fantastic for touring! Very respectful drivers, great sights, fantastic food! Campsites can be packed very tight, but I really enjoyed my time there. Helmets are compulsory! Be careful - you may enjoy yourself so much you'll want to keep touring! :-)

Oh! And for commuting? I have a 42km (total) commute every day. Winter or summer the MTB is the business!

Thanks very much there's a bit to digest there!

I think I'm going to go around a bunch of second hand bike shops to get a better idea, I'll have to look at MTBs too

RobFowl

John Hutton wrote: »

Here's something a bit unusual.

https://touch.adverts.ie/mountain-bikes/ktm-v-old-bike-but-immaculate-condition/14949908

Wouldn't touch it. Base spec and very basic heavy frame. Keep looking though you could find a gem.

simo28

My father-in-law has a dawes galaxy sitting in his shed. I'm pretty sure he'd sell it as he rarely cycles it. I'd of nabbed it off him but it's too big. Pm me if you are interested

paul a newman

If you're interested in the hewitt John, it'll be 200E, inc shimano brakes and headset

mh_cork

I'm selling a Claud Butler Dalesman touring bike that is the right size if you are interested. This is a genuine touring bike, similar to Dawes Galaxy.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057852555

RobFowl

You could do a lot worse than this !
Looks pretty much ready to go...

https://www.donedeal.ie/bicycles-for-sale/planet-x-kaffenback-sram-rival-22-road-bike/17371001

John Hutton

Lads, reckoning on a 60cm Dawes Super Galaxy for someone six foot with a 33 inch inseam? Getting mixed advice, ladnin a bike shop today said 58 is what I want, another Inna different bike shop this evening said that given the geometry of that specific bike I should be fine with a 60.

Any opinions?

Miklos

John, I’m 6ft2 and ride a 58. What is the geometry like on the bike?

John Hutton

Miklos wrote: »

John, I’m 6ft2 and ride a 58. What is the geometry like on the bike?

I won't pretend to understand bicycle geometry, but the lad in the bike shop (he wasn't trying to sell me anything I was asking him about a bike I saw elsewhere) said that geometry is a little different on older road bikes and then said something to the effect that onna galaxy I'd find the top tube would be half an inch or so shorter than the seat tube so I'd easily be able to live with a 60cm...

This is all over my head to be honest.!

tjc28

I find the geometry of older bikes different alright. My carbon is 54 but Reynolds 531 is 56 and both are great for me. With seatpost adjustments and maybe stem adjustments it should be grand. Once you can stand over the crossbar comfortably and there's no danger to your bits ðŸ˜

John Hutton

Have started thinking that a new bike may be better...

Have been looking at these three on the bike to work:
Fuji Touring _850
https://www.bikesorbicycles.com/product/fuji-touring/
Adventure flat white £500
http://www.mycycle.ie/Adventure-Flat-White-Touring-Bike-p/rk54160.htm
Ridgeback World Voyage £965
http://www.mycycle.ie/Ridgeback-World-Voyage-Touring-Bike-p/rbb71.htm

Is the extra 400 worth it over the adventure flat White?

Miklos

John Hutton wrote: »

Have started thinking that a new bike may be better...

Adventure flat white £500
http://www.mycycle.ie/Adventure-Flat-White-Touring-Bike-p/rk54160.htm
Ridgeback World Voyage £965
http://www.mycycle.ie/Ridgeback-World-Voyage-Touring-Bike-p/rbb71.htm

Is the extra 400 worth it over the adventure flat White?

These two should be available to view seeing as it's a physical shop, why not go have a look? The Ridgeback does seem to have a better spec, but that's not to say the other wouldn't do the trick.

John Hutton

Miklos wrote: »

These two should be available to view seeing as it's a physical shop, why not go have a look? The Ridgeback does seem to have a better spec, but that's not to say the other wouldn't do the trick.

Yeah I think I'm gonna have to have a day trip in Dublin to suss it all out

John Hutton

Weepsie wrote: »

You can get a Ridgeback world tour frame for around 450 from Biketart. Reynolds 853, all sizes available. Looks great. Nearly bought one myself but it was over my limit for spending

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s143p2258/SURLY-Long-Haul-Trucker-Frame-and-Forks

This is also very tempting! I promised myself at the outset that I wouldn't go mad spending! Ha

magicbastarder

that ridgeback looks much nicer, both in terms of both price/quality and looks.

https://www.biketart.com/bikes-c1/frames-c33/ridgeback-panorama-deluxe-frameset-p12171

magicbastarder

yep, that's the one.

barrymanilow

Hi ,

I was in the same boat , looking for a steel tourer for a tall guy 6 '2 .

Had my eye on a new Kona Sutra or Surly LHT but then i lucked out and found a vintage steel Koga miyata tourer on Done deal for a bargain . I upgraded it as I went and now its got modern parts , bar end shifters , schwlabe tyres etc.

Bike fitting is tricky enough . Frame size number doesn't mean much as one bikes 60cm frame could be very different to another 60cm frame in important ways .

Try find out what the seat tube measurement is and what the actual top tube measurement is . Bring a tape measure .

Mine has a 60cm seat tube but a 58cm top tube . So it is taller than it is long . That suits me as a shorter top tube means your less stretched out and more upright which is what I want for taking it handy and enjoying the view when loaded touring .

My racier bike has a 60cm seat tube and 60cm top tube so its more stretched out which is what I want for a fast bike . But you can tweak a fit with changing the stem . Stems are very cheap . I bought a few before I settled on one that made the bike most comfortable .

Im a 34 inseam . The 60cm seat tubes on my bike suit fine , I have about a fist and a half of seatpost showing.

The seat tube measurement isn't so important it just means more or less of your seat post will show . Its the actual top tube (crossbar ) length which decides how far away the bars will be from the saddle with the stock stem. .

This link shows how to measure

https://youtu.be/B7mPbF0U270

John Hutton

Well mission successful I think, picked up an old Dawes Galaxy today. Frame seems solid although there are quite a few instances of surface rust, nothing anyway serious. Inside of the seat tube is fine.

Have a 2 minute spin and it seems very comfortable and the frame is a perfect size.

May have a go at cleaning off the larger areas of surface rust/discoloration and cover the bare metal with clear nail polish. If I come to really like the bike I may get it powder coated.

Everything works fine so I can use it and upgrade it as I go along.

If anyone is interested I may update this thread as I go along... My only experience with fixing bikes is changing tubes and switching saddles somit will be a bit of a learning experience.

A picture:

https://preview.ibb.co/nMxKE7/IMG_20180418_205742.jpg

barrymanilow

Nice find ,

I have a set of new unused avid cantilever brakes , in the ad section here if your ever looking to upgrade the brakes.

Actually they probably wouldn't work on the narrower fork of your older frame , I'd go with Shimano cx50 if your going to keep cantilever brakes but want a lot better performance .

I had a similar bike , upgrades I made were bar end shifters , brooks saddle ,quill stem adapter so that I could use modern stems and handlebars , new front wheel, tektro brake levers so I could rest hands on the tops , cx50 brakes ,eventually a new drive train and pedals most stuff from chain reaction cycles and put together watching YouTube videos .

Only original parts on the frame now are the deraileurs and rear wheel.

The best upgrade was schwalbe marathon supreme touring tyres , haven't had a puncture in 3 years with them .

John Hutton

Right, after having some unexpected extra cash I've spent the last few days doing up that bicycle I bought, I resprayed it myself (badly) and replaced just about everything on it, except for the brakes, levers and saddle. (They're on the list, along with some dynamo lights). I think I should do the headset too, it's very old although seems smooth enough. But I've no idea how to do that job and select a headset that will fit.

I'll probably end up spending not far off what a new bike would cost, even though I cheaped out on the wheels!!

But having never done anything beyond swapping tires before I've learned a ton and had a blast, even when spending an entire afternoon battling with a extremely stubborn old bottom bracket.

I have an issue though with the tires I bought. I got 35c marathon plus tires. They seem grand but when I went to fit the SKS mudguard set I got I found that there just wasn't enough clearance.

The only thing I can think to do is to switch to a smaller tire. I think the next size down is 32c followed by 28c. Would switching to them give me enough clearance you think?

Picture of bike, mudguards and lack of clearance below. Any input appreciated!

https://ibb.co/i073dJ
https://ibb.co/kv0Zky
https://ibb.co/bDsrXd

cdaly_

If you are switching tyres, I'd suggest Vittoria Voyager Hypers. Much comfier tyre with reasonable puncture protection.

John Hutton

cdaly_ wrote: »

If you are switching tyres, I'd suggest Vittoria Voyager Hypers. Much comfier tyre with reasonable puncture protection.

Look nice and price is good too but only seem to come in 35 and 38 which would leave me with the same problem I have now with clearance for mudguards