Election / referendum posters.

NUTLEY BOY

What is the law, if any, on the subject of placing posters on public electricity poles. I use "public" in the sense of place as distinct from ownership or entitlement. ?

I recall stencilled signs on electricity poles saying "POST NO BILLS". I assume that to have been a direction not to attach material, including posters, to the pole. If so, it is ignored on a grand scale.

Q1. Do ESB Networks have the right to refuse to allow posters on their poles ?

Q2. Do "posters" have any legal right to attach their material to ESB poles ?

Q3. If ESB do not give permission what rights do they have against posters ?

Q4. Are there any littering offences involved in the act of placing the posters ?

IMHO posters seem to have implied consent by virtue of the fact that it is now a very long established custom and practice. I suspect that if there is no offence it might be time for legislation to specifically prohibit the practice.

Ironically, it would be the practitioners of the art - politicians - who would legislate for this :rolleyes: Also, cue objection on grounds of breach of constitutional right of freedom of expression:rolleyes::rolleyes:

ED E

ESB PR on the topic:

Safety Notice to all Groups and Parties involved in the forthcoming Referendum
ESB Networks wish to advise all Groups and Parties involved in the upcoming Referendum that the erection of posters on ESB Assets (namely electricity poles) poses a serious safety risk to ESB staff, contractors and members of the public and is strictly prohibited.

Dangerous situations have been created in the past by individuals or parties erecting posters on ESB poles, including the danger of electric shock, falls from heights, restricting visibility for traffic, posters coming loose and falling and poles catching fire. In some cases, ESB Networks has been required to interrupt the electricity supply to households and businesses in order to safely remove these posters.

Posters that are erected on electricity poles will be removed by ESB Networks when possible and safe to do so.

ESB Networks regularly advise the general public to always stay clear of electricity poles and wires through its TV, Radio and Social Media campaigns. It is important that these messages are taken on board in the interest of safety.

In the event of a dangerous situation or emergency, the public are reminded to immediately phone ESB Networks emergency service on 1850 372 999 (24 hour/7 day service).
ENDS/

Doesn't cite statute but I'm sure its there and GM or Peregrin will be along shortly.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

brian_t

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm curious about this.

The ESB own the pole but they don't own the ground in which the pole is placed.

Nothing has been entered, nothing has been damaged and there is no loss to the ESB.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

ohnonotgmail

brian_t wrote: »

I'm curious about this.

The ESB own the pole but they don't own the ground in which the pole is placed.

Nothing has been entered, nothing has been damaged and there is no loss to the ESB.

the posters are not being placed on the ground they are being placed on the pole.

seamus

brian_t wrote: »

I'm curious about this.

The ESB own the pole but they don't own the ground in which the pole is placed.

Nothing has been entered, nothing has been damaged and there is no loss to the ESB.

The pole is property of the ESB. Affixing something to someone else's property without permission is a form of civil trespass.

Consider if they zip-tied referendum material to the wing mirrors of your car while it was parked in public.
Same thing.

Lmklad

ESB have already requested that poster not be placed on their poles as they are a safety hazard and will be removed.

The placement of posters is covered in law and they are exempt from the littering act for a certain period of time after the polling date (think its two weeks). After that time each poster still up can attract a €100 fine.

GM228

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

What is the law, if any, on the subject of placing posters on public electricity poles. I use "public" in the sense of place as distinct from ownership or entitlement.

S19 of the Litter Pollution Act 1997 (as amended), you would need permission from the ESB or whoever owns the electricity poles:-

19 (1) Where any structure or other land, door, gate, window, tree, pole or post is in or is visible from a public place, a person who is not the owner, occupier or person in charge thereof shall not—　

(a) exhibit or cause to be exhibited thereon any article or advertisement, or

(b) carry out or cause to be carried out any defacement thereof by writing or other marks,　

unless, in either case, the person is authorised in advance to do so in writing by such owner, occupier or person in charge or by or under any enactment, and, in addition, in the case of paragraph (a), the article or advertisement—

(i) if it relates to a meeting or an event, carries the name and address of the person who is promoting or arranging the meeting or event, and

(ii) in any other case, carries the name and address of the person on whose behalf it is exhibited.

Without their permission you can't post posters on an electricity poll (or any structure within view of a public place). Posting posters without permission is an automatic offence under S9, however in the case of anything in relation to an election or referendum, no offence is created until 7 days after the date of such.

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Q1. Do ESB Networks have the right to refuse to allow posters on their poles ?

Yes, it's their property.

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Q2. Do "posters" have any legal right to attached their material to ESB poles ?

No, they need advance permission.

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Q3. If ESB do not give permission what rights do they have against posters ?

Civil redress and criminal prosecution.

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Q4. Are there any littering offences involved in the act of placing the posters ?

Yes, with the exception of election and referendum material were no offence occurs until 7 days after the date of the election/referendum.

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

IMHO posters seem to have implied consent by virtue of the fact that it is now a very long established custom and practice. I suspect that if there is no offence it might be time for legislation to specifically prohibit the practice.

As shown in the quoted Act they need advance written permission and S19 already creates an offence.

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Also, cue objection on grounds of breach of constitutional right of freedom of expression

Bear in mind the freedom of speech can be limited - "Laws, however, may be enacted for the regulation and control in the public interest of the exercise of the foregoing right"

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

GM228

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yes that avenue is always open, criminal and civil redress are not mutually exclusive.

Victor

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Also, cue objection on grounds of breach of constitutional right of freedom of expression:rolleyes::rolleyes:

This does not extend to using other people's platforms, whether media or poles.

Peregrinus

brian_t wrote: »

I'm curious about this.

The ESB own the pole but they don't own the ground in which the pole is placed.

I'm not sure that the ESB does own the pole.

In general, the ownership of fixtures, fitting, structures, etc is not separate from the ownership of the land on which they are fixed, fitted or constructed. So if I build a house on land which you own, I have substantially increased the value of your property, which is nice of me, but I haven't acquired an asset of any kind myself.

Same goes here. The ESB erects poles, pylons etc on other people's land pursuant (I am guessing) either to a licence from the landowner permitting them to do so or to a statutory authority to do so. But, either way, unless there is a statutory provision somewhere that splits ownership of the pole from ownership of the land, they don't end up owning the pole or pylon. To do that, they'd have to acquire an estate or interest in the land (and my guess is that they do acquire the land on which larger infrastructure elements are constructed).

So the ESB's powers to tell you not to put your bloody posters on their poles thank you very much may not stem from ownership of the poles, but from (again, I'm guessing) a statutory duty to install, operate, maintain, keep safe, etc transmission and distribution infrastructure, and associated statutory powers. It wouldn't amaze me to discover that there's an offence somewhere of interfering with the transmission/distribution system. But I'm not sure that putting up a poster on an ESB pole would expose you to a civil action for trespass. Or not at the suit of the ESB, anyway.

GM228

Peregrinus wrote: »

I'm not sure that the ESB does own the pole.

In general, the ownership of fixtures, fitting, structures, etc is not separate from the ownership of the land on which they are fixed, fitted or constructed. So if I build a house on land which you own, I have substantially increased the value of your property, which is nice of me, but I haven't acquired an asset of any kind myself.

Peregrinus wrote: »

ISo the ESB's powers to tell you not to put your bloody posters on their poles thank you very much may not stem from ownership of the poles, but from (again, I'm guessing) a statutory duty to install, operate, maintain, keep safe, etc transmission and distribution infrastructure, and associated statutory powers. It wouldn't amaze me to discover that there's an offence somewhere of interfering with the transmission/distribution system. But I'm not sure that putting up a poster on an ESB pole would expose you to a civil action for trespass. Or not at the suit of the ESB, anyway.

The ESB retain ownership of any fixture they install even on private land by virtue of S84 of the Electricity (Supply) Act 1927.

They also gain a "burdensome right over land" where they place any fixtures as per the Supreme Court in ESB vs Gormley [1985] IR 129.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Same goes here. The ESB erects poles, pylons etc on other people's land pursuant (I am guessing) either to a licence from the landowner permitting them to do so or to a statutory authority to do so. But, either way, unless there is a statutory provision somewhere that splits ownership of the pole from ownership of the land, they don't end up owning the pole or pylon. To do that, they'd have to acquire an estate or interest in the land (and my guess is that they do acquire the land on which larger infrastructure elements are constructed).

S53 of the Electricity (Supply) Act 1927 gives them the right to place anywhere any equipment (including supports) for the carrying of lines on any land including private land. They have a right to build, operate, maintain and acces their equipment.

Victor

Peregrinus wrote: »

In general, the ownership of fixtures, fitting, structures, etc is not separate from the ownership of the land on which they are fixed, fitted or constructed.

An electricity pole, the fittings and cables thereon are much less 'at one with' the ground as a house's foundations. Indeed, the fittings and cables are as much one with the neighbouring property as the one over which they hang, perhaps even more, e.g. where a cable crosses land, but it doesn't have a pole / pylon on a particular plot.

Peregrinus

Victor wrote: »

An electricity pole, the fittings and cables thereon are much less 'at one with' the ground as a house's foundations.

The question is not whether electricity infrastructure is "at one with" the ground in a similar way to a house's foundations; the question is whether it amounts to fixtures, fittings or structures. Lots of thing which are not remotely comparable to house foundations are nevertheless fixtures, fittings, etc.

I leave a box full of doorknobs in your front garden; the box and the doorknobs still belong to me. But I take the doorknobs out and fix them to the doors in your house; now they belong to you. The are not "at one with" the land like your house foundations; in fact they can be easily removed with just a screwdriver. But that doesn't matter; they are fixtures, so the form part of the land.

Although, strictly speaking, for the reason GM228 points out, that isn't the question here, since there is a statutory provision vesting the electricity infrastructure in the ESB, which would override the general rule about fixtures etc becoming part of the land.

Victor wrote: »

Indeed, the fittings and cables are as much one with the neighbouring property as the one over which they hang, perhaps even more, e.g. where a cable crosses land, but it doesn't have a pole / pylon on a particular plot.

It's an interesting question! Because of the statutory provision it doesn't arise as far as electricity infrastructure is concerned. But suppose I construct a cable car, say, between two substantial installations built on plots which I buy for the purpose. The cable car passes over your land; I get a licence from you for this. Can you claim a proprietary interest in the section of the cables that crosses your land?

No, I think is the answer. They are fixtures, but they are not fixed to your land. They are fixed to my land, so they are part of it. But for the licence, you could bring an action in trespass against me, much as you could if I built a structure in my back garden that projected over the wall into your back garden. My attempt to extend my property into yours would be the trespass, in both cases.