Galway man jailed for raping his 3 younger foster sisters.

Appledreams15

This is a sad case today. There is a mention of pornography here too.
If people think that there isn't a link between pornography and rape, here is another case that mentions porn. Why is porn allowed that shows women being treated in violent and abusive ways? The industry needs to be regulated.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/galway-man-jailed-for-raping-his-three-younger-foster-sisters-36789852.html

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

7 and a half years isn't long enough for such a horrific crime. When you premeditate to inflict that much pain to another human being time after time after time, you deserve the harshest of punishments.

How do you 'ban' pornography? And how do you punish people that consume it. It's like the 'ban' video games because it makes people violent, when it has been proved it doesn't.

No evidence to support link between violent video games and behavior

Sofiztikated

Appledreams15 wrote: »

This is a sad case today. There is a mention of pornography here too.
If people think that there isn't a link between pornography and rape, here is another case that mentions porn. Why is porn allowed that shows women being treated in violent and abusive ways? The industry needs to be regulated.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/galway-man-jailed-for-raping-his-three-younger-foster-sisters-36789852.html

I'd love to know how you know what the porn consisted of. In fact, all that detail in the report, and you single out the single mention of porn.

It mentions driving in a tractor more than that, so should we ban tractors?

up for anything

that his client now accepted the verdict but asked the judge to take into account that he had not come to any further garda attention in the last ten years.

Counsel added that his client, a married man, had expressed a willingness to engage with a sex offenders treatment programme in prison.

“He is now accepting his guilt and acknowledging the impact on his victims, which means that he can now engage in rehabilitation,” Mr Madden said, before handing in a large number of testimonials including letters from the man's parents and wife.

Oh well, that's alright then. Just give him seven and half years for the years of misery he put those girls through. His mammy who wrote a testimonial must have gotten off on the thought of him in her room raping an eight year old who was forced to put on her underwear. Jesus, I've heard it all now. :mad:

Seven years is a pittance to pay for the devastation he caused in the lives of those three girls. I just hope there weren't others.

nozzferrahhtoo

Appledreams15 wrote: »

If people think that there isn't a link between pornography and rape, here is another case that mentions porn.

I am not sure I have seen many (any?) deny there is a link between porn and rape. What they probably denied was that the link was what you personally think it is. Which would be a very different things entirely.

So the first question is what you think the link actually is? The tone of your post seems to suggest that you think pornography both in generally, and specifically rape themed, is somehow leading to more rape.

I would not like to put words into your mouth so do feel free to correct me. But if that is the case and I have summarized your position accurately..... then I await your substantiation of it as a position that crosses the "Correlation is not causation" issue.

Appledreams15 wrote: »

Why is porn allowed that shows women being treated in violent and abusive ways?

The same reasons why James Bond is allowed to go around killing people on our screens, or Hanibal Lector is to commit murders, or rape can happen on Coronation Street or Eastenders. For the most part we are allowed portray fantasy situations on our screens.

So I fear you ask the wrong question. GIVEN what we are allowed show on screen in the modern day the question should be "Why should porn NOT be allowed show people being treated in violent and abusive ways?". As what you are discussing would be the exception not the rule.

I believe in "Innocent until proven guilty" in nearly all things. If there is an indictment of such porn I am happy to hear it, but I see no reason to mount a defense against an empty prosecution as there is often no way to reason people out of positions they did not initially arrive at through reason.

People claimed without much evidence that violent video games or movies led to violent crimes. And this has not been substantiated since. Claiming that violent sexual porn will lead to violent sex crimes is similarly unsubstantiated. And in fact there are SOME studies suggesting that access to child sex dolls or simulated child sex pornography could in fact possibly reduce actual sex crimes against children.

Appledreams15 wrote: »

The industry needs to be regulated.

I fully agree. Both porn, and the sex workers industry in general, need to be regulated and regulated well in an environment where neither the buyer or the seller are criminalized. I do not think many will disagree with regulation. I think the focus of disagreement might lie in what we each thing that regulation should actually be.

nozzferrahhtoo

Candie wrote: »

Seven years is a pittance to pay for the devastation he caused in the lives of those three girls. I just hope there weren't others.

Yeah it strikes me that there are probably people out there who might even consider it a price worth paying to have access sexually to that many girls, of that age, for that period of time.

I fear some such people would see 7 years as a price tag they would be more than happy to pay.

wakka12

Millions of people manage to watch porn without raping people. I think a boy who is raping multiple children by the age of 14 had many deeper psychological problems unrelated to porn

cruizer101

She recalled on one occasion being made to hold up a pornography magazine

That is the only mention of porn in the article, some leap from that to what you are suggesting. Vast majority of men look at porn, vast majority of men do not commit rape and sexual assault.

Sentence in this case seems very lenient given the extent of the offences.

Incest porn, Joe. All the rage now

Jim Bob Scratcher

What's the point of this thread?

wakka12

Is the setence shorter because he was a minor when he committed? I guess Im just trying to figure out why the sentence doesnt match the depravity of the crimes at all.

jiltloop

Appledreams15 wrote: »

This is a sad case today. There is a mention of pornography here too.
If people think that there isn't a link between pornography and rape, here is another case that mentions porn. Why is porn allowed that shows women being treated in violent and abusive ways? The industry needs to be regulated.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/galway-man-jailed-for-raping-his-three-younger-foster-sisters-36789852.html

Link does not mean causal.

Unfortunately disgusting creatures like this have always existed. Long before pornography has. Millions of emotionally healthy men and women enjoy pornography. Just because sick individuals seek out extreme pornography does not mean that pornography is the cause.

Grayson

jiltloop wrote: »

Link does not mean causal.

Unfortunately disgusting creatures like this have always existed. Long before pornography has. Millions of emotionally healthy men and women enjoy pornography. Just because sick individuals seek out extreme pornography does not mean that pornography is the cause.

Yep. I have no doubt that there's a link between certain behaviours and pornography. However that does not mean that the pornography causes those behaviours.

Grayson

I just read the story.
Firstly, just to stick on topic, dragging porn into this was a very long stretch.
Secondly. jesus that's horrific. I'd say that after the prison sentence he should be remanded in a mental health institute until it's deemed safe to release him.

Candie

Candie wrote: »

Seven years is a pittance to pay for the devastation he caused in the lives of those three girls. I just hope there weren't others.

Given he got away with it as long as he did I wouldn't be surprised. Arsehole judge.

seanrambo87

nozzferrahhtoo wrote:

I fully agree. Both porn, and the sex workers industry in general, need to be regulated and regulated well in an environment where neither the buyer or the seller are criminalized. I do not think many will disagree with regulation. I think the focus of disagreement might lie in what we each thing that regulation should actually be.

Very reasoned and well thought out responses. Plenty of food for thought.

Why is it, I wonder we have such disproportionately lenient sentences for the most heinous of crimes when people get double even triple the sentence for crimes that have little to no malicious intent?

nozzferrahhtoo

I am probably one of, if not the, worst person to ask that question of on the forum. I have little knowledge about how sentencing regulations work on various crimes, and when you look at one single sentence, for one single crime, in one context.... and compare it to another..... it often makes ZERO sense to me and is massively counter intuitive.

Doesn't the judges sentencing conclusions get written up and released in a case like this? If so, I can only recommend we read that. Failing that one of the sites Lawyers will have to parse this one for us.

Omackeral

Appledreams15 wrote: »

There is a mention of pornography here too.
If people think that there isn't a link between pornography and rape, here is another case that mentions porn.

Im capable of watching a bit of filth without resorting to the auld hairy ape. Same way I can watch a violent movie or play a violent video game without killing anyone. Give it a rest Missus.

Omackeral

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

What's the point of this thread?

Well the first hint would be to see who started it.

seanrambo87

nozzferrahhtoo wrote:

Doesn't the judges sentencing conclusions get written up and released in a case like this? If so, I can only recommend we read that. Failing that one of the sites Lawyers will have to parse this one for us.

Thank you, I will keep an eye out for that. It boggles the mind I have to say.

Apologies to the o.p. it's not exactly along the lines of the thread but further to nozzferrahhtoo's earlier point regarding criminalisation, It seems to me that regulation is required for many other things aswell e.g. drugs. I may have a think on it and probably start a thread if one does not exist.

AlphabetCards

No one has mentioned the rather digusting line:

[font=Georgia, serif]"The second girl was 11-years old when she told gardaí in 2007 that both she and the first victim had been raped at the same time two years previously. However, the case was never prosecuted because the first victim denied it ever happened."[/font]

This would not be the first time in my life I've witnessed such incompetence by police on such matters. Children can barely comprehend the act, let alone formulate their thoughts in such a way that adults can understand what has happened and how it can affect their testimony. Not following up on this report by the victim is nearly as disgusting as the act itself.

AlphabetCards

AlphabetCards wrote: »

No one has mentioned the rather digusting line:

[font=Georgia, serif]"The second girl was 11-years old when she told gardan 2007 that both she and the first victim had been raped at the same time two years previously. However, the case was never prosecuted because the first victim denied it ever happened."[/font]

This would not be the first time in my life I've witnessed such incompetence by police on such matters. Children can barely comprehend the act, let alone formulate their thoughts in such a way that adults can understand what has happened and how it can affect their testimony. Not following up on this report by the victim is nearly as disgusting as the act itself.

How? Just keep asking and asking and asking til she says it did happen? I'm no fan of the Garday whatsoever but they can't (or at least shouldn't) be cajoling an 11 year old into saying something to suit their purposes. The whole thing sounds like an awful mess though, who would've been with the kids? The foster parents whose son they're accusing or just a social worker?

Lux23

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I'd love to know how you know what the porn consisted of. In fact, all that detail in the report, and you single out the single mention of porn.

It mentions driving in a tractor more than that, so should we ban tractors?

WTF. Why did this post get so many likes? I wouldn't be in favour of banning the type of content an adult consumes, but surely you can see how watching violent porn could influence a certain person's actions as opposed to you know - riding around in a tractor. Really?

steddyeddy

I don't like it when people say I hope he gets a beating in prison, but I hope he gets a beating in prison.

The offences were committed when he was 14 - 18 years old and he's avoided attention since. I guess the sentence reflects his age at the time of the crimes or something like that. Still not enough though, maybe for a 14 year old with rehab and support but an 18 year old knows exactly what they're doing even if they're not 'worldly'.

If he was raping the kids regularly for those four years, then the price he's paying for each individual offence is an insult to his victims.

nozzferrahhtoo

Lux23 wrote: »

WTF. Why did this post get so many likes? I wouldn't be in favour of banning the type of content an adult consumes, but surely you can see how watching violent porn could influence a certain person's actions as opposed to you know - riding around in a tractor. Really?

I imagine the "likes" were not directed at comparing the effects on behaviour of porn and tractors however.

Rather I think the "likes" were directed at the poster noticing just how little "porn" was relevant to the article in question. It was almost not mentioned AT ALL and was mentioned in only the most indirect of ways.

But the thread OP decided to blow that (not even) tenuous link into a whole thread decrying the effect of porn, or the role (s)he is simply imagining it played in the crimes involved. There is no data at all suggesting porn causes significant... if any.... increases in rape. But the mere MENTION of it in an article on someone being raped was enough for the OP to use this crime to go on a crusade and tout an agenda.

In other words, the user was not actually comparing the impacts of porn and tractors on behaviour. The user was comparing the significance of porn's (almost zero) presence in the article to that of tractors. And it is a valid comparison.

The OP clearly has an (entirely unsubstantiated I suspect) issue with porn and decided to exploit the plight of these young victims to launch an unwarranted attack on it. And the "likes" Sofiztikated got were likely for calling the OP out on this.

fergiesfolly

I really wish we could do away with the idea of concurrent sentencing. Three seperate victims over four years and he won't really serve an extra day for the crimes committed against the second and third girls. What justice is there in that for them?

nozzferrahhtoo

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Rather I think the "likes" were directed at the poster noticing just how little "porn" was relevant to the article in question. It was almost not mentioned AT ALL and was mentioned in only the most indirect of ways.

Well it was reported that the child had to hold a porn mag open while she was being raped, presumably to allow her rapist to look at whatever image while he violated the little girl. So it would seem safe to assume that porn was a factor, to some extent, in that childs abuse.

I don't believe it's necessarily a wider issue though, I seem to remember reading that the countries with the least restrictions on mainstream porn also have the lowest rate of sex offences, but that was a while ago and I can't look it up at the moment.

The thing is that there's always going to be something that seems to be indicated, like heavy metal or games, but just because it's present in a particular case it doesn't make it a wider issue. It does seem to be common sense that a certain subset of people might use porn to fuel a violent sexual fantasy perhaps, but we don't know that it wouldn't be the case that they'd use some other means if no porn was available at all.

nozzferrahhtoo

Candie wrote: »

Well it was reported that the child had to hold a porn mag open while she was being raped, presumably to allow her rapist to look at whatever image while he violated the little girl. So it would seem safe to assume that porn was a factor, to some extent, in that childs abuse.

I think I know what you mean but I could not make that assumption myself. It is equally likely for example he wanted HER to look at the image to see what to do and how to do it. Us merely being told she had to "hold" the magazine tells us nearly nothing. And I would hesitate to ascribe any narrative or intention to it as it would be mere assumption on our parts.

But the presence of porn does not really make it a "factor". For example if I showed up in your house to kill your right now, and there was a stale loaf of bread there that I grabbed and beat you to death with, calling the bread a "factor" in the attack would be a stretch. It would be incidental. The tool I used to do what I was intent on doing anyway. Though you would be a great loss to boards.ie in general

All that said however, the point I was making was not to dismiss the presence of the magazine as any kind of relevance AT ALL. But as relevant to the narrative the OP is clearly trying to erect that rape and/or child abuse can somehow be blamed on porn. I doubt the magazine or it's contents were a factor at that level AT ALL. Even a little bit. Had he used a vibrating sex toy on her it would hardly be interesting either to say the sex toy was a "factor". It was a tool.

Candie wrote: »

I don't believe it's necessarily a wider issue though, I seem to remember reading that the countries with the least restrictions on mainstream porn also have the lowest rate of sex offences, but that was a while ago and I can't look it up at the moment.

Indeed and in an earlier post I referenced that there is preliminary findings seemingly suggesting that the availability of child sex dolls and simulated child pornography can also mediate the sexual abuse of actual children. So you are on the right track here in what you remember reading. The dynamics between porn and sex aids..... and negative sexual behaviours....... is so massively complex and counter intuitive when you learn the details of it that posts like the thread OP here are beyond naive and ill informed.

Candie wrote: »

The thing is that there's always going to be something that seems to be indicated, like heavy metal or games, but just because it's present in a particular case it doesn't make it a wider issue.

You are on the money here indeed. Generally when people see X And Y together they assume one caused the other. So if they see a rapist who watched a lot of porn they assume the porn was a factor in the crimes. Often it is not. X does not cause Y and Y does not cause X. Rather some third factor Z is the cause of both X and Y. But those with an agenda as so blatantly apparent in the OPs narrative, generally have no interest in that line of explanation. They hate porn, and they REVEL in the misery of others when it gives them a chance to plant a flag where they want it to be planted.

Candie wrote: »

It does seem to be common sense that a certain subset of people might use porn to fuel a violent sexual fantasy perhaps, but we don't know that it wouldn't be the case that they'd use some other means if no porn was available at all.

Exactly. It is more likely the case that their violent sexual tendencies (Z) fuels their crimes (X) as well as their porn habits (Y). But opportunists like the OP want to blame X on Y, because it fuels an agenda against something that can not indict with any actual arguments. Because at the end of the day there is NOTHING wrong with porn, those who watch it, or the expression of taboo or extreme fantasies through it. And the near total majority of consumers of porn do so without becoming even partially deranged by it. At least not until the last 5 seconds of it where their expressions look more deranged than even Hollywoods most chilling bad guys. The expressions we humans make at the end.......

erica74

fergiesfolly wrote: »

I really wish we could do away with the idea of concurrent sentencing. Three seperate victims over four years and he won't really serve an extra day for the crimes committed against the second and third girls. What justice is there in that for them?

I completely agree with this, it's almost like 2 of them get written off but which 2?

This line from the article hits very close to home for me:

The second girl outlined in her victim impact statement that she started drinking at 11 years old. She said while waiting for others to come forward she almost believed it was in her head.

Until my sister actually confirmed to me 24 years later, that she had also been abused by our brother, I was never 100% certain about what exactly happened. Mindfuck.

She started counselling at 14 years old, which she continues today, but said she was not in a position to take up employment and was dependent on her family.

Heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking.

A local garda told Fiona McGowan BL, prosecuting, that the man was arrested at an address in Galway in October 2013. He was interviewed twice but denied any wrongdoing. He claimed he had treated the first victim like a sister and insisted the allegations were “all lies”. He has no previous convictions.

Bernard Madden SC, defending, told Mr Justice Moriarty that his client now accepted the verdict but asked the judge to take into account that he had not come to any further garda attention in the last ten years.

Mr Justice Moriarty said it would have made matters easier had the man entered a guilty plea but instead the three woman had to “run the gamut of examination and cross-examination” in a “wholly contested trial”.

The fact that he initially lied, drawing out this matter even further, should see him punished even more severely.

“He is now accepting his guilt and acknowledging the impact on his victims, which means that he can now engage in rehabilitation,” Mr Madden said, before handing in a large number of testimonials including letters from the man's parents and wife.

Seriously, a large number of testimonials? Were all of these people aware of the nature of his offences? How could his parents provide a testimonial for him after abusing the children they fostered?