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Entitlement to British Passport

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  • 09-04-2018 12:41am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 5


    Hi! Not sure if this is the right area to ask this. Basically my Mother was born in Northern Ireland but she has never had a british passport. She only has an Irish one. I was born in Ireland and hold an Irish passport. Am I entitled to a British passport through my Mother? Or would she have to get a British passport first?


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,371 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    To be entitled to a British passport you have to be a British citizen. British citizenship law is insanely complicated, but it's quite likely that you are a British citizen by descent from your mother, who is herself a British citizen by virtue of her birth in Northern Ireland. It makes no difference whether she holds, or has ever held, a British passport.

    You can try and establish your British citizenship status by navigating your way through the questions at this website.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    You can get one if a parent was British, and your mother was/is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    I had a quick look on the UK Gov's website.

    Seems that if you were born before 1st Jan 1983 to a British mother, it's a 12 page form and 80 GBP.

    If you were born after that date above, it's a little more involved...


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 CliFlo


    Thanks for all the feedback so far! I was born after 1983. From what I could find online it seems to be that I have to have been born after my Mother was "registered or naturalized as a British citizen". I'm not sure exactly what is meant by registered or naturalized. Does being born in Northern Ireland automatically register you as a British citizen or do you actually have to apply for a passport or something?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    CliFlo wrote: »
    Thanks for all the feedback so far! I was born after 1983. From what I could find online it seems to be that I have to have been born after my Mother was "registered or naturalized as a British citizen". I'm not sure exactly what is meant by registered or naturalized. Does being born in Northern Ireland automatically register you as a British citizen or do you actually have to apply for a passport or something?

    To be honest it really isn't that clear. From my limited understanding, your mother is a British citizen by birth and you will be entitled to "British citizenship by descent" as you were born in Ireland and not the UK. Basically "British citizenship by descent" means you are entitled to become a British citizen through your mother but as you were not born in the UK, you cannot pass British citizenship onto any children.

    http://workpermit.com/immigration/united-kingdom/british-citizenship-descent-or-otherwise

    It's not clear whether or not your mother needs a UK passport, but I'd imagine if she had one, it'll make your application a little easier.

    Anyhow it seems that as an adult it'll cost you £1,206 :eek: That's just for the citizenship. Price just went up on 6th April as well I think....

    Passport is another £70 odd or so. More if you get it via the British embassy in Dublin - at least it was back in 2010. I do know someone who did it via Belfast instead.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5 CliFlo


    Oh Jesus I didn't realise it would be that expensive. May not be worth it for what I wanted it for so. Thanks for the info!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭6541


    You can get a British passport. Out of interest what do you need it for ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 CliFlo


    I'm currently living and working in Canada on a 2 year visa I got with my Irish passport. And I was hoping to extending my stay by 2 more years by getting a visa with a British passport. The Canadian government allow you to get a second visa on a different passport. It seemed like a cheaper way than going for PR here which costs about $2000 but if the passport is really that expensive as an adult it's not cheaper at all. I'll have more of a look in to it anyway to see how much it costs and I'll post back here if I get anywhere with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,404 ✭✭✭✭sKeith


    MBSnr wrote: »
    To be honest it really isn't that clear. From my limited understanding, your mother is a British citizen by birth and you will be entitled to "British citizenship by descent" as you were born in Ireland and not the UK. Basically "British citizenship by descent" means you are entitled to become a British citizen through your mother but as you were not born in the UK, you cannot pass British citizenship onto any children.

    http://workpermit.com/immigration/united-kingdom/british-citizenship-descent-or-otherwise

    It's not clear whether or not your mother needs a UK passport, but I'd imagine if she had one, it'll make your application a little easier.

    Anyhow it seems that as an adult it'll cost you £1,206 :eek: That's just for the citizenship. Price just went up on 6th April as well I think....

    Passport is another £70 odd or so. More if you get it via the British embassy in Dublin - at least it was back in 2010. I do know someone who did it via Belfast instead.

    They don't need to buy the citzenship. They most likely already have it automatically. It'll be the price of the passport, not the £1206 thing you gave out. Maybe thats the cost of buying citizenship, but citizen by decent is automatically gained, you do not pay for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    sKeith wrote: »
    They don't need to buy the citzenship. They most likely already have it automatically. It'll be the price of the passport, not the £1206 thing you gave out. Maybe thats the cost of buying citizenship, but citizen by decent is automatically gained, you do not pay for it.

    It's not clear to be honest - you could be right. Says here there's a fee.
    https://www.gov.uk/register-british-citizen/children-born-outside-uk (Under 18 are £973). Can't find a link for adults.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    MBSnr wrote: »
    Citizen by descent for free. Pay fee to get the cert. Pay to get the passport.
    https://www.gov.uk/register-british-citizen/children-born-outside-uk (Under 18 are £973). Can't find a link for adults.

    Wow so £1k per child for each of my 3 if I want to get them a British passport, wonder why it needs to be done while they are under 18, any ideas, I assume it only becomes more costly or more difficult thereafter?

    Also that's fairly unacceptable, I recently got an Irish passport by descent (mother) and all it cost me was the cost of the documents from the UK and Irish repositories @€;30 and the standard passport fee.......


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Wow so £1k per child for each of my 3 if I want to get them a British passport, wonder why it needs to be done while they are under 18, any ideas, I assume it only becomes more costly or more difficult thereafter?

    Also that's fairly unacceptable, I recently got an Irish passport by descent (mother) and all it cost me was the cost of the documents from the UK and Irish repositories @€;30 and the standard passport fee.......

    Yet here it kinda says different....:confused:
    https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizen/y/on-or-after-1-january-1983/no/yes

    "You might be a British citizen
    In most cases you’ll be a British citizen ‘by descent’. You don’t need to register or naturalise. You can live in the UK and get a British passport."

    EDIT: I'm getting way too involved in looking stuff up for something that I don't need


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    MBSnr wrote: »
    Yet here it kinda says different....:confused:
    https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizen/y/on-or-after-1-january-1983/no/yes

    You might be a British citizen
    In most cases you’ll be a British citizen ‘by descent’. You don’t need to register or naturalise. You can live in the UK and get a British passport.

    I am talking about my kids born here to me a British Citizen, I have to pay £1k each, reading the website, to get them a British passport in the various fees, should I wish to, but yes they are automatically entitled should I cough up!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,404 ✭✭✭✭sKeith


    MBSnr wrote: »
    Yet here it kinda says different....:confused:
    https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citizen/y/on-or-after-1-january-1983/no/yes

    "You might be a British citizen
    In most cases you’ll be a British citizen ‘by descent’. You don’t need to register or naturalise. You can live in the UK and get a British passport."

    EDIT: I'm getting way too involved in looking stuff up for something that I don't need

    to get an irish passport, i didnt need to get a cert to say i was an irish citizen.
    i filled out the passport form and sent in my parents long birth cert with it which showed by rights under descent.

    check the uk passport form for same. dont pay for that cert if you dont need it. i dont have a certificate of citizenship for ireland, but i have a irish passport, which is better that any citizen cert.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    CliFlo wrote: »
    I'm currently living and working in Canada on a 2 year visa I got with my Irish passport. And I was hoping to extending my stay by 2 more years by getting a visa with a British passport. The Canadian government allow you to get a second visa on a different passport. It seemed like a cheaper way than going for PR here which costs about $2000 but if the passport is really that expensive as an adult it's not cheaper at all. I'll have more of a look in to it anyway to see how much it costs and I'll post back here if I get anywhere with it.

    Be interesting to know as it's totally unclear!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 CliFlo


    Yeah it seems to be fairly confusing alright. I found a link about applying for your first passport as an adult and it seems for my situation the below applies. So just sending in my Mams birthcert as supporting documents should do. The link I found is for applying from within the UK but I can't see anything about supporting documents being different if you do it outside the UK.

    Born on or after 1 January 1983
    Send all of the following:

    - your full birth certificate showing your parents’ details
    - the passport you used to come into the UK or any foreign passport that you’re included on
    - evidence of one parent’s British nationality, for example their UK birth or adoption, naturalisation or registration certificate

    If these documents relate to your father, you must include the marriage certificate showing when he married your mother.


    It won't let me post the actual link to the page I'm looking at because I'm a first time poster. But I just googled "Applying for first british passport as an adult" and it was the first link.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    CliFlo wrote: »
    Yeah it seems to be fairly confusing alright. I found a link about applying for your first passport as an adult and it seems for my situation the below applies. So just sending in my Mams birthcert as supporting documents should do. The link I found is for applying from within the UK but I can't see anything about supporting documents being different if you do it outside the UK.

    Born on or after 1 January 1983
    Send all of the following:

    - your full birth certificate showing your parents’ details
    - the passport you used to come into the UK or any foreign passport that you’re included on
    - evidence of one parent’s British nationality, for example their UK birth or adoption, naturalisation or registration certificate

    If these documents relate to your father, you must include the marriage certificate showing when he married your mother.


    It won't let me post the actual link to the page I'm looking at because I'm a first time poster. But I just googled "Applying for first british passport as an adult" and it was the first link.

    This might help. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/564950/OS_Guidance_G1_10.16.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭pinksoir


    CliFlo wrote: »
    Yeah it seems to be fairly confusing alright. I found a link about applying for your first passport as an adult and it seems for my situation the below applies. So just sending in my Mams birthcert as supporting documents should do. The link I found is for applying from within the UK but I can't see anything about supporting documents being different if you do it outside the UK.

    Born on or after 1 January 1983
    Send all of the following:

    - your full birth certificate showing your parents’ details
    - the passport you used to come into the UK or any foreign passport that you’re included on
    - evidence of one parent’s British nationality, for example their UK birth or adoption, naturalisation or registration certificate

    If these documents relate to your father, you must include the marriage certificate showing when he married your mother.


    It won't let me post the actual link to the page I'm looking at because I'm a first time poster. But I just googled "Applying for first british passport as an adult" and it was the first link.

    Both my folks are English and I have both British and Irish passports. I don't remember having to pay for the British one beyond the actual cost of the passport. Certainly not anything like 1k anyway. I got my first one as a child though, so YMMV.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    It's very unclear, but as far as I can tell, you are both a British and an Irish Citizen and can apply for a British passport without any additional fees beyond the passport fee. If you sift through this document it makes whether you are currently a British Citizen somewhat clearer. I would also assume it means my kids can get a passport the same way without the 1k fee.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/583385/MN1_Guide_January_2017.pdf

    Have been considering getting my kids British passports what with Brexit and all that crap, same as I got myself an Irish one. Never know if they'll want to work or study in the UK and how that will work in the future!


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭paddyref


    Sorry to hijack your thread, on a theoretical note my father was born in Ireland in 1921 before we left Britain would I be entitled to a British passport as the son of an British citizen ( no intention whatsoever of wanting one just curious).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    paddyref wrote: »
    Sorry to hijack your thread, on a theoretical note my father was born in Ireland in 1921 before we left Britain would I be entitled to a British passport as the son of an British citizen ( no intention whatsoever of wanting one just curious).

    No due to this, interesting topic mind....
    British Nationality Act 1948
    Main article: British Nationality Act 1948
    Following Canada's enactment of the Canadian Citizenship Act 1946 (in force from 1 January 1947), the Commonwealth Heads of Government agreed that every member state, except Ireland which declined to participate at the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting, would enact its own citizenship law while retaining the common status of British subject. The British Parliament passed the British Nationality Act 1948, which created the status of citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies. Because of Ireland's impending departure from the Commonwealth (on 18 April 1949), special provision was made for the retention by certain Irish citizens of the status of British subject without being citizens of a Commonwealth member state.

    As a result, Irish citizens ("citizens of Eire") lost British-subject status automatically on 1 January 1949 if they did not acquire citizenship of the UK and Colonies or that of another Commonwealth country, notwithstanding that Ireland did not cease to be one of His Majesty's dominions until 18 April 1949.[8]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law_and_the_Republic_of_Ireland


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,404 ✭✭✭✭sKeith


    paddyref wrote: »
    Sorry to hijack your thread, on a theoretical note my father was born in Ireland in 1921 before we left Britain would I be entitled to a British passport as the son of an British citizen ( no intention whatsoever of wanting one just curious).


    Section 5 of the 1949 Act conferred Citizenship of the UK and Colonies (CUKC) on any Irish-born person meeting all the following criteria:
    1. was born before 6 December 1922 in what became the Republic of Ireland;
    2. was domiciled outside the Republic of Ireland on 6 December 1922;
    3. was ordinarily resident outside the Republic of Ireland from 1935 to 1948; and
    4. was not registered as an Irish citizen under Irish legislation.


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