Electric fence for garden

Mad Benny

We brought a new pup home today. We have a large garden with a field on two sides. The remaining side is a neighbour with many dogs.

We want to buy an electric fence as dogs from next door keep coming into the garden and we plan to get chickens next month. We want to keep foxes out.

Any recommendations on type of fence? I plan to buy a mains fence.

em_cat

Mad Benny wrote: »

We brought a new pup home today. We have a large garden with a field on two sides. The remaining side is a neighbour with many dogs.

We want to buy an electric fence as dogs from next door keep coming into the garden and we plan to get chickens next month. We want to keep foxes out.

Any recommendations on type of fence? I plan to buy a mains fence.

You may find it difficult to get recommendations in this thread about electric fences for domestic pets.

There are more uptodate positive methods to control entry onto your property from the other garden.

Plenty of experienced a&p boardsies may be able to advise.

Shefwedfan

We have acre garden, wanted to keep our dog in, neighbors dogs out and the huge fox which used to walk over garden at 7 each morning

Solution was horse wire....company called tornado....wooden posts and then I ran wooden posts horizontal on top of posts

The horse wire is serious stuff, even to cut is fought on hands, but not a fox or dog in and out dog can’t get out unless she follows the car

Hens now and nothing has got in yet

Of course other options but this will last 20 years once I keep posts in good condition

em_cat

Shefwedfan wrote: »

We have acre garden, wanted to keep our dog in, neighbors dogs out and the huge fox which used to walk over garden at 7 each morning

Solution was horse wire....company called tornado....wooden posts and then I ran wooden posts horizontal on top of posts

The horse wire is serious stuff, even to cut is fought on hands, but not a fox or dog in and out dog can’t get out unless she follows the car

Hens now and nothing has got in yet

Of course other options but this will last 20 years once I keep posts in good condition

Thanks for the education, grew up on a farm in North Yorkshire so am well aware of the needs you describe, however what I was trying to say, politely, was that this isn’t the thread to ask about electric fencing, there are possibly better threads for it, that’s all.

What kind of pupp? working dog, domestic pet or a combination? I ask because we had 5 collies (3 border, 2 Shetlands) to work the sheep and 2 alternates to protect the hens and managed all that without an electric fence for 30 years.

Shefwedfan

em_cat wrote: »

Thanks for the education, grew up on a farm in North Yorkshire so am well aware of the needs you describe, however what I was trying to say, politely, was that this isn’t the thread to ask about electric fencing, there are possibly better threads for it, that’s all.

What kind of pupp? working dog, domestic pet or a combination? I ask because we had 5 collies (3 border, 2 Shetlands) to work the sheep and 2 alternates to protect the hens and managed all that without an electric fence for 30 years.

I was replying to the OP, not to your post...

Our dog is springer, all her relatives were working dogs but we keep her as pet. She will still hunt but not trained. I had her Great Grandmother as a pup many years ago

Personally would never use Electric for dogs, pointless because if they are a clever breed they will get around it. Decent fencing with wire does the job but it’s costs more....

We went with horse wire as well because kids can’t get shoes into holes so they would never be able to climb it .....just thinking longer term

shaunr68

We use a cheapo Shockrite mains unit from eBay UK (link below, £53 inc postage to Ireland), three strands around approx a 3/4 acre enclosure comprising a grassy area, scrub and patch of woodland that we let our goats and chickens wander around during the day.

Keeps Ted and Dougal our two pygmy goats from getting into neighbouring fields, goats being notorious escape artists I think we'd need 6 foot fencing all round otherwise. It has also so far kept any local carnivores from dining on our chickens. Our three dogs are fine with it, after a whack or two off the fence they avoid it like the plague...

I housed the energiser in the wood shed and bought the wire locally.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-Fence-Energiser-ShockRite-230V-Mains-SRM406-0-6J-3-Year-Warranty/231877919976?epid=1966785622&hash=item35fd0044e8:g:Ef4AAOSwubRXOQ5t#shpCntId

em_cat

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I was replying to the OP, not to your post...

Our dog is springer, all her relatives were working dogs but we keep her as pet. She will still hunt but not trained. I had her Great Grandmother as a pup many years ago

Personally would never use Electric for dogs, pointless because if they are a clever breed they will get around it. Decent fencing with wire does the job but it’s costs more....

We went with horse wire as well because kids can’t get shoes into holes so they would never be able to climb it .....just thinking longer term

Sorry; not sure why I didn’t twig different user names... We didn’t have wire fencing at all, which is why we had so many dogs. Ah one of my top favourite dog breeds, absolutely love springers & setters...

muddypaws

How is an electric fence going to keep other dogs out? It works by a dog wearing a collar and getting a shock from the collar when they go near the fence, so unless you plan on buying collars for other people's dogs, it won't keep them out.

If you mean single strand electric fencing such as that used to keep livestock contained, a dog will go under or over it.

shaunr68

muddypaws wrote: »

If you mean single strand electric fencing such as that used to keep livestock contained, a dog will go under or over it.

You can run multiple strands of electric fencing from the same source. We have three wires running parallel about 8 inches apart, you need to consider the spacing and number of strands depending on the size of animal you want to keep in, or out.

Shefwedfan

shaunr68 wrote: »

You can run multiple strands of electric fencing from the same source. We have three wires running parallel about 8 inches apart, you need to consider the spacing and number of strands depending on the size of animal you want to keep in, or out.

You will end up spending a fortune running multiple strands and thats just for the dog. The OP mentioned a fox. A fox not only can jump a serious height but also can get under anything if they want to.....a couple of tasty chickens on the other side and they will find a way

Even my dog, clever little thing, she would get out of Alcatraz! she would make a run and jump up to 1-1.5M if she wanted to.

By the time you run enough strands to keep dog in and fox out you will have spent the same money as running good wire and installing good posts. Also the strands wont last the test of time versus high quality wire fence...

Word of advice, some companies will offer chainlink wire,it's crap...if you want something that will last look for Tornado wire or something similar...

shaunr68

Can only speak from personal experience.

Heavy gauge galvanised electric fence wire around €5-6 per 100m, with a lifespan of 25 years. We don't use that flimsy tape stuff.

Cost around €100 to fence a 3/4 acre enclosure.

Our dogs (mini poodles) could probably get over it but would have to be in one leap rather than scrambling over, instead they tend to give it a wide berth, as do the goats and chickens. Maybe we've been lucky with foxes but it has been effective thus far.

Shefwedfan

shaunr68 wrote: »

Can only speak from personal experience.

Heavy gauge galvanised electric fence wire around €5-6 per 100m, with a lifespan of 25 years. We don't use that flimsy tape stuff.

Our dogs (mini poodles) could probably get over it but would have to be in one leap rather than scrambling over, instead they tend to give it a wide berth, as do the goats and chickens. Maybe we've been lucky with foxes but it has been effective thus far.

I am familair with the wire, have used for cattle before. Would never consider it for using to keep dogs in

You are lucky, I know both my brother have free range hen far,s. Over 20,000 hens. They have run the 1.5m horse wire around the farm. I ran 1.2M.

Even with weekly checked to ensure no gaps they have at least 1 fox attack per year. The fox can kill up to 50 hens in one attack, they dont kill a hen and go home, they keep excited and just keep killing till they get tired.

They do have the disadvantage of having so many hens which means they attract a lot of foxes. If you have binoculars you can stand at shed and see all around, you can watch the foxes walking up and down outside the fence testing it:p

eirbear1989

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Personally would never use Electric for dogs, pointless because if they are a clever breed they will get around it.

I met a dog who used to have one of the electric fences with the collar. He would go close enough for the noise to start, sit there until the battery ran out, and then get over the fence!! Too smart for his own good.

I second putting up a decent fence. Our dog had the run of the place but never escaped, we had timber post and rail.

As for the chickens, put up a run around the coop!

patmac

About 20 years ago our first dog a ****zu called Oscar was a bit wild, and we were advised to put on the electric shock collar. He would break through every now and again and after a while he started developing a lump and eventually had to be put down.
We have spent a fair few euro since on a wall, electric gates and a fence and the perimeter is now secure.
I would rather go without a dog than put an electric shock collar on any pet.

Shefwedfan

patmac wrote: »

About 20 years ago our first dog a ****zu called Oscar was a bit wild, and we were advised to put on the electric shock collar. He would break through every now and again and after a while he started developing a lump and eventually had to be put down.
We have spent a fair few euro since on a wall, electric gates and a fence and the perimeter is now secure.
I would rather go without a dog than put an electric shock collar on any pet.

I would never put one of those things on a dog....height of cruelty....

if you buy one for you dog you should also be made wear one....

Dont buy a dog if you
1. Haven't got the space for them
2. Don't intent walking them
3. Can't keep them in so they are not running free

Graces7

shaunr68 wrote: »

We use a cheapo Shockrite mains unit from eBay UK (link below, £53 inc postage to Ireland), three strands around approx a 3/4 acre enclosure comprising a grassy area, scrub and patch of woodland that we let our goats and chickens wander around during the day.

Keeps Ted and Dougal our two pygmy goats from getting into neighbouring fields, goats being notorious escape artists I think we'd need 6 foot fencing all round otherwise. It has also so far kept any local carnivores from dining on our chickens. Our three dogs are fine with it, after a whack or two off the fence they avoid it like the plague...

Words fail.

shaunr68

Graces7 wrote: »

Words fail.

Why? It's harmless. They know the boundaries and it keeps them from eating the chickens. I regularly touch the fence by accident, just yesterday bent over when weeding and got a whack on my arse. It's a very mild jolt like a static shock when you touch metal after taking off a jumper. Nothing to worry about.

Shefwedfan

shaunr68 wrote: »

Why? It's harmless. They know the boundaries and it keeps them from eating the chickens. I regularly touch the fence by accident, just yesterday bent over when weeding and got a whack on my arse. It's a very mild jolt like a static shock when you touch metal after taking off a jumper. Nothing to worry about.

For you its a mild jolt

Those units are made for cattle...who like you are quite big

For a dog it is a massive shock, hence why they have specific systems for dogs....see below.

https://www.gallagher.eu/en_gb/electric-fence-dogs

Still not a system I would use.....but thats just me

shaunr68

Shefwedfan wrote: »

For you its a mild jolt

Those units are made for cattle...who like you are quite big

For a dog it is a massive shock, hence why they have specific systems for dogs....see below.

https://www.gallagher.eu/en_gb/electric-fence-dogs

Still not a system I would use.....but thats just me

If the shock severity was dependent on body mass then fences would be killing small children in farms up and down the country, and the things would be banned. Our chickens are a lot smaller than the dogs and when we first installed the fence the chickens learned to avoid it the hard way too. Chickens are still alive BTW.

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/chicken_keepers/967309-Erm-really-stupid-question-but-electrified-fencing-and-small-children

Shefwedfan

shaunr68 wrote: »

If the shock severity was dependent on body mass then fences would be killing small children in farms up and down the country, and the things would be banned. Our chickens are a lot smaller than the dogs and when we first installed the fence the chickens learned to avoid it the hard way too. Chickens are still alive BTW.

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/chicken_keepers/967309-Erm-really-stupid-question-but-electrified-fencing-and-small-children

You link to a mumsnet website for what exactly? hoping for a scientific analysis?

Is that the best you could find on google?

Shefwedfan

shaunr68 wrote: »

If the shock severity was dependent on body mass then fences would be killing small children in farms up and down the country, and the things would be banned. Our chickens are a lot smaller than the dogs and when we first installed the fence the chickens learned to avoid it the hard way too. Chickens are still alive BTW.

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/chicken_keepers/967309-Erm-really-stupid-question-but-electrified-fencing-and-small-children

This might be a better source of information than mumsnet

http://www.agri-supply.co.uk/pages/Dog-Fencing.html


Energisers
Dogs require a lower level of shock and smaller fence energisers can be used. For fences that are permanent or if a mains supply is available using a mains energiser is the best option. You will have to measure the length your dog fence will be to decide on the energiser you need. A mains system works by plugging the energiser into the supply inside and running lead out cable to a 2m earth stake and to the fence to power it. For places you cannot get a mains supply to, 12v, 9v or solar energisers should be used. 12v battery energiser are usually used and we would recommend using these as they are more reliable and cost effective

em_cat

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You link to a mumsnet website for what exactly? hoping for a scientific analysis?

Is that the best you could find on google?

Next they’ll be linking to a Facebook group as scientific evidence...

Sorry Mods :{ the mood I’m in I couldn’t help it...

shaunr68

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You link to a mumsnet website for what exactly? hoping for a scientific analysis?

Is that the best you could find on google?

To an interesting discussion showing that not everyone is so precious and generally people are aware that electric fences are harmless. Perhaps you can find a report highlighting the massive problem of farm dogs and small children being mained and killed by electric fencing.

Shefwedfan

shaunr68 wrote: »

To an interesting discussion showing that not everyone is so precious and generally people are aware that electric fences are harmless. Perhaps you can find a report highlighting the massive problem of farm dogs and small children being mained and killed by electric fencing.

How is that an interesting discussion? its a group of people talking about getting a shock from fence when young.....

Why are you talking about Children???

gozunda

Mad Benny wrote: »

We brought a new pup home today. We have a large garden with a field on two sides. The remaining side is a neighbour with many dogs.

We want to buy an electric fence as dogs from next door keep coming into the garden and we plan to get chickens next month. We want to keep foxes out.

Any recommendations on type of fence? I plan to buy a mains fence.

Ok the standard fence for keeping poultry in and foxes and dogs out is a Poultry Mesh fence run off a fence enegiser.

It is very effective and good for large areas. Both pets and poultry can be safety managed with this and in my experience it really does deter foxes and other unwanted visitors. Animals is are well able to detect it and give it a wide berth imo.

It will still be necessary to house poultry at night.

There are a number of suppliers in Ireland who stock the fencing and required accessories such as Old McDonald and McEoin Ltd. A search will also bring up other online options.

General info:
https://www.maceoinltd.com/news/news-14/Electric-Poultry-Fencing---Electric-Poultry-Netting-For-Sale-In-Ireland.#.Ws_XuNAo_qD


http://oldmcdonald.ie/poultry/poultry-fencing-containment-systems.html

https://www.maceoinltd.com/electric-fencing/chicken-fencing-netting/

shaunr68

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Energisers
Dogs require a lower level of shock and smaller fence energisers can be used. For fences that are permanent or if a mains supply is available using a mains energiser is the best option. You will have to measure the length your dog fence will be to decide on the energiser you need. A mains system works by plugging the energiser into the supply inside and running lead out cable to a 2m earth stake and to the fence to power it. For places you cannot get a mains supply to, 12v, 9v or solar energisers should be used. 12v battery energiser are usually used and we would recommend using these as they are more reliable and cost effective

So, nothing about the "massive shock" you mentioned, nothing about it being dangerous to smaller animals, toddlers and chickens! Just "Dogs require a lower level of shock and smaller fence energisers can be used" . Actually at 50 quid and 0.6 joules ours is a "smaller fence energiser" so please get off your high, erm, rabbit.

Trasna1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

For you its a mild jolt

Those units are made for cattle...who like you are quite big

For a dog it is a massive shock, hence why they have specific systems for dogs....see below.

https://www.gallagher.eu/en_gb/electric-fence-dogs

Still not a system I would use.....but thats just me

Cheetah make great mains powered electric fences. They generally have three levels of power output depending on the size of animal you want to keep in or out. Your local farmers co op will have them in stock

You'll need a 5 strand electric fence. Teagasc have a guide on their website on how to space the strands (spacing is tighter close to the ground). The type of fence design for a dog enclosure would be predator type.

gozunda

Trasna1 wrote: »

Cheetah make great mains powered electric fences. They generally have three levels of power output depending on the size of animal you want to keep in or out. Your local farmers co op will have them in stock

You'll need a 5 strand electric fence. Teagasc have a guide on their website on how to space the strands (spacing is tighter close to the ground). The type of fence design for a dog enclosure would be predator type.

Agreed re' the energiser output. The poultry mesh fence I detailed above comes with multiple strands (depending on height of fence purchased) and is designed to go keep poultry in (op getting hens) and predators out. Its also suitable for other pets.

Graces7

shaunr68 wrote: »

Why? It's harmless. They know the boundaries and it keeps them from eating the chickens. I regularly touch the fence by accident, just yesterday bent over when weeding and got a whack on my arse. It's a very mild jolt like a static shock when you touch metal after taking off a jumper. Nothing to worry about.

Inflicting pain is never harmless. Controlling dogs through pain and fear is not acceptable

And your body weight is far far greater than that of a dog

One place I lived, the farmer had electric fences for his cattle. My dogs ran against it by accident and i will "hear" their cry of pain to my dying day

gozunda

Graces7 wrote: »

Inflicting pain is never harmless. Controlling dogs through pain and fear is not acceptableAnd your body weight is far far greater than that of a dog
One place I lived, the farmer had electric fences for his cattle. My dogs ran against it by accident and i will "hear" their cry of pain to my dying day

The fence your dog would have accidentally hit off was most likly high tensile wire with a current set to keep cattle bulls etc from breaking out and causing mayhem or damage. Electric fences are commonly found around fields in the countryside and alongside roads and houses. As a single point source it may feel painful but it's effects are thankfully short-lived.

As children we would play a game of dare you - and touch the electric fence for bravado. Animals are thankfully smarter and tend not to go near it - but if they accidentally touch it they will stay away from it after. I do know of one unfortunate incident where a particular gentleman decided to stop his car for a call of nature - unfortunately whilst having a pee he failed to observe that there was an electric fence facing the hedge. He never made that mistake again.

With the poultry mesh fence the electrical current is spread across the mesh and in my experience is readily detected by both poultry and other animals. They simply avoid it. I have used this fencing for years and it really does keeps poultry and even small pets safe from predation. In my experience it is safe for even the smallest of poultry and animals.

Shefwedfan

shaunr68 wrote: »

So, nothing about the "massive shock" you mentioned, nothing about it being dangerous to smaller animals, toddlers and chickens! Just "Dogs require a lower level of shock and smaller fence energisers can be used" . Actually at 50 quid and 0.6 joules ours is a "smaller fence energiser" so please get off your high, erm, rabbit.

Why are you constantly talking about children or toddlers? Who mentioned children or toddlers apart from you?

If you dont want to care for your animal why do you get them?

shaunr68

Graces7 wrote: »

Inflicting pain is never harmless. Controlling dogs through pain and fear is not acceptable

It's no worse than standing on a thorny bramble and no more unpleasant than walking through a muddy puddle. Our dogs have learned not to walk through brambles or puddles.

Graces7 wrote: »

And your body weight is far far greater than that of a dog

Already shown to be irrelevant

Graces7 wrote: »

One place I lived, the farmer had electric fences for his cattle. My dogs ran against it by accident and i will "hear" their cry of pain to my dying day

Whereas your dog had got over it in a few minutes.

Do you really think I'd be cruel to these three?

Shefwedfan

shaunr68 wrote: »

Do you really think I'd be cruel to these three?

Beautiful dogs, worth spending a few euro and getting proper wire......

That would be my view anyway

shaunr68

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why are you constantly talking about children or toddlers? Who mentioned children or toddlers apart from you?

Because if a fence "intended for cattle" (though ours isn't) was dangerous to smaller animals as you imply then farm dogs, chickens and infants would be getting killed and maimed up and down the country on a regular basis.

The Bishop Basher

As kids we used to touch electric fences for fun.

One of my dogs, the more stupid one, brushed off an electric fence which was meant for cattle..

She let a yelp, changed direction and continued on with her walk.

As with all problems there will be many solutions, none of them perfect.

It's just a matter of finding the most appropriate and effective choice for you, your animals and of course your pocket.

Shefwedfan

shaunr68 wrote: »

Because if a fence "intended for cattle" (though ours isn't) was dangerous to smaller animals as you imply then farm dogs, chickens and infants would be getting killed and maimed up and down the country on a regular basis.

Again why are you talking about children?

Who mentioned animals getting killed or maimed?

As I said why do you bother getting pets if you are not willing to spend a few euro on them

shaunr68

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Again why are you talking about children?

Because children touch cattle fences and if they were dangerous then electric fences would be outlawed.

Shefwedfan

shaunr68 wrote: »

Because children touch cattle fences and if they were dangerous then electric fences would be outlawed.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make.....

This is a thread about pets, you keep refering to children. Why?

What has a child touching an electric fence got to do with pets?

Your a million miles off topic....

The Bishop Basher

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have no idea what point you are trying to make.....

This is a thread about pets, you keep refering to children. Why?

I'd say it has something to do with this..

Shefwedfan wrote: »

For you its a mild jolt

Those units are made for cattle...who like you are quite big

For a dog it is a massive shock, hence why they have specific systems for dogs....see below.

You've tried to make the argument that an electric fence designed for a larger animal may be harmful or dangerous to a small person or smaller animal..

I think that argument has now been well and truly debunked.

Yet you keep coming back to it for some reason

aaakev

Shefwedfan wrote: »

shaunr68 wrote: »

Because children touch cattle fences and if they were dangerous then electric fences would be outlawed.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make.....

This is a thread about pets, you keep refering to children. Why?

What has a child touching an electric fence got to do with pets?

Your a million miles off topic....

Your either pretending to be thick or..........

Shefwedfan

Swanner wrote: »

I'd say it has something to do with this..



You've tried to make the argument that an electric fence designed for a larger animal may be harmful or dangerous to a small person or smaller animal..

I think that argument has now been well and truly debunked.

Yet you keep coming back to it for some reason

Maybe read above. I never once mentioned a small person, did I?

I said an electric fence for cattle is not fit for purpose for pets....the poster then made reference to him touching the wire and it was a mild jolt....

All I said was that for him it might be a mild jolt but not to a small pet. Now can you please point to any of my comments where I mentioned children/small people or anything of the sort?????

Did I make any reference to mass etc....

Which arguement is well and truly debunked? the only one I made which said that cattle electric fence is not fit for purpose for pets?

or the one where I said you shouldn't get pets unless you have the correct setup

The Bishop Basher

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have no idea what point you are trying to make.....

Kids or no kids aside..

The points being made on both sides of the argument were obvious.

the beer revolu

aaakev wrote: »

Your either pretending to be thick or..........

Gotta be pretending.

aaakev

the beer revolu wrote: »

aaakev wrote: »

Your either pretending to be thick or..........

Gotta be pretending.

Choosing to ignore a good point. Electric fences are uncomfortable at best, they do not hurt. We used to mess with them as kids and it did us no harm because we kept going back. my dog has got a shock one day out hunting, he let a yelp and jumped but forgot about it in about 3 seconds, he did learn to stay away from it though and it didnt knock him off his game in the slightest.

FrostyJack

Both my dogs hit a cattle electric fence, one would not step out side the house for hours and took weeks to get him back to running around where the fence was , he was petrified. The other thought I kicked her or something as I was near her, took he a few minutes and lots of treats to get her to come to me. Moral of the story, shock therapy whether it is collar or fence is not good for them mentally. I spent a fortune building a fence and I don't regret it for a second.

FrostyJack

FrostyJack wrote: »

Both my dogs hit a cattle electric fence, one would not step out side the house for hours and took weeks to get him back to running around where the fence was , he was petrified. The other thought I kicked her or something as I was near her, took he a few minutes and lots of treats to get her to come to me. Moral of the story, shock therapy whether it is collar or fence is not good for them mentally. I spent a fortune building a fence and I don't regret it for a second.

I'd agree with this. My partner was walking one of our dogs and she touched an electric fence. She too thought he had done something to her. It took her a couple of days to stop cowering away from him. He felt really terrible about it.

Graces7

FrostyJack wrote: »

Both my dogs hit a cattle electric fence, one would not step out side the house for hours and took weeks to get him back to running around where the fence was , he was petrified. The other thought I kicked her or something as I was near her, took he a few minutes and lots of treats to get her to come to me. Moral of the story, shock therapy whether it is collar or fence is not good for them mentally. I spent a fortune building a fence and I don't regret it for a second.

Thank you. I rented amid cattle fields once and will never forget the yelp of pain when my dogs came up against the electric fence before i knew it was there. Brutality has no place.

Yet the farmer used to grab it to show it did not hurt..