Driving Question Cork

chesby

Hi Folks,

Can any Cork locals tell me what lane i should be in as i drive up Eglinton Street (Between City Hall and the Elysian) when i want to turn left around City Hall heading towards Parnell Place ?. Every time i make this journey I see different drivers taking it differently.

As you drive up this road there are three lanes , one to go right and the the other two , to go left .

When you make the left turn , the road in-front of city hall has four lanes.
One bus lane, and one driving lane go back around city hall .The other two towards Parnell Place.

My question is, When making the turn , Should i be in the lane closer to city hall or the middle lane (Both going left ) ?.
If i am in the left lane , am i allowed to enter into he lane for Parnell place , or is this lane only for going back around city hall ?.
Who has right of way here ?.

I would post an image , but cant due to being a new user .

Thanks in Advance.

AugustusMinimus

Middle lane allows left and right turn. Furthest lanes away in my view. So right most lane going to Parnell place and left turn to Jury’s Inn.

Left lane goes left across front of city hall and middle lane which goes to Parnell Place.

Right lane takes you across the front of One Albert Quay. It also should allow you into the middle lane after turning right.

Overall, this gives each of the 3 lanes on Eglinton Street a choice of 2 lanes after going through the junction.

darash

Hi, left lane goes in front of city hall & keeps left onto Anglesea St. If you use this lane, change your mind & want to go on to Parnell Bridge, indicate right as you drive in the front of city hall & hope someone will let you in to the other 2 lanes for Parnell Br.

Back to Eglinton St & you want to go to Parnell Bridge, stay in middle lane, have your left indicator on (as this mid lane can also go right over Albert Q), you can enter either of the 2 lanes towards Parnell Br., depending where you want to go from the bridge.

Hope this helps.

AugustusMinimus

darash wrote: »

Hi, left lane goes in front of city hall & keeps left onto Anglesea St. If you use this lane, change your mind & want to go on to Parnell Bridge, indicate right as you drive in the front of city hall & hope someone will let you in to the other 2 lanes for Parnell Br.

Back to Eglinton St & you want to go to Parnell Bridge, stay in middle lane, have your left indicator on (as this mid lane can also go right over Albert Q), you can enter either of the 2 lanes towards Parnell Br., depending where you want to go from the bridge.

Hope this helps.

I don’t agree with this interpretation.

It basically means that if you are travelling north on Eglunton street, the only way to continue travelling north is to use the middle lane while both the left and right lanes bring you travelling south again.

chesby

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

darash wrote: »

Hi, left lane goes in front of city hall & keeps left onto Anglesea St. If you use this lane, change your mind & want to go on to Parnell Bridge, indicate right as you drive in the front of city hall & hope someone will let you in to the other 2 lanes for Parnell Br.

Back to Eglinton St & you want to go to Parnell Bridge, stay in middle lane, have your left indicator on (as this mid lane can also go right over Albert Q), you can enter either of the 2 lanes towards Parnell Br., depending where you want to go from the bridge.

Hope this helps.

I don’t agree with this interpretation.

It basically means that if you are travelling north on Eglunton street, the only way to continue travelling north is to use the middle lane while both the left and right lanes bring you travelling south again.

Personally , I would have to agree with Darash's Interpreation as this was how i assumed this turn was supposed to opearte.However ,I regularly see the opposite whereby ssomeone in the left lane , will just veer across into the middle lane infront of city hall going into the middle lane towards parnell place , forcing me to break and leave them in.

Similarly , if i take the left left On Eglinton street (Closest to city hall) and want to turn left , and want to head towards Parnell Place , you will find the people do not leave you merge automatically , as from the above point , they think you are "joining their lane".
Best approach so far is driving it extreemly defensive :angel: IMO  .

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

AugustusMinimus

chesby wrote: »

Personally , I would have to agree with Darash's Interpreation as this was how i assumed this turn was supposed to opearte.However ,I regularly see the opposite whereby ssomeone in the left lane , will just veer across into the middle lane infront of city hall going into the middle lane towards parnell place , forcing me to break and leave them in.

Similarly , if i take the left left On Eglinton street (Closest to city hall) and want to turn left , and want to head towards Parnell Place , you will find the people do not leave you merge automatically , as from the above point , they think you are "joining their lane".
Best approach so far is driving it extreemly defensive :angel: IMO  .

But that other interpretation means that the middle lane has 4 options to take and the left and right lanes only have 1 option each.

From a traffic management point of view it is about as suboptimal as things get.

chesby

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

chesby wrote: »

Personally , I would have to agree with Darash's Interpreation as this was how i assumed this turn was supposed to opearte.However ,I regularly see the opposite whereby ssomeone in the left lane , will just veer across into the middle lane infront of city hall going into the middle lane towards parnell place , forcing me to break and leave them in.

Similarly , if i take the left left On Eglinton street (Closest to city hall) and want to turn left , and want to head towards Parnell Place , you will find the people do not leave you merge automatically , as from the above point , they think you are "joining their lane".
Best approach so far is driving it extreemly defensive :angel: IMO  .

But that other interpretation means that the middle lane has 4 options to take and the left and right lanes only have 1 option each.  

From a traffic management point of view it is about as suboptimal as things get.

Yes I see what your saying now to be fair alright.....
I think the fact that the natural turn curve of the left turn brings you into the lane heading backaround city hall , possibly has myself and alot of other road users confused .

AugustusMinimus

chesby wrote: »

Yes I see what your saying now to be fair alright.....
I think the fact that the natural turn curve of the left turn brings you into the lane heading backaround city hall , possibly has myself and alot of other road users confused .

Overall, Cork City Council need to put a few white lines through the box junction to clarify what’s going on as there appears to be no right or wrong. It’s a horrible set up at present.

TheChizler

Two lanes split up to four lanes (including a bus lane). Makes sense that they get split equally, left lane for lane 1 and 2 in front of city hall, middle lane for lane 3 and 4.

nostro

Middle Lane to take one of the two northbound lanes or to turn right in to two northmost right lanes.
Left lane to go back around city hall. Although as pointed out drivers often take left lane and cut in to northbound lane after they have turned corner.

Crasp

I'm very glad you asked, OP.

Nostro and TheChizler have it.

See attached diagram.

There are 4 lanes on the Quay on both sides. It's foolish to think that you could be in the leftmost lane turning left, and end up in the 3rd lane after the junction. That's selfish, and these people know that they are queue jumping.

See attached image for correct lane discipline. Just think of it as each lane splitting in 2 after the junction (the common middle lane splits in 2 to the left, and to the right, depending on which turn you make).


The same lane discipline applies when traveling over the bridge in the opposite direction!

TheChizler

Just to split hairs there are now only 3 lanes turning right since they finished 1 Albert Quay, but that diagram is bang on!

The real debate is which of the right-turning lanes can be in the middle after the turn...

AugustusMinimus

Crasp wrote: »

I'm very glad you asked, OP.

Nostro and TheChizler have it.

See attached diagram.

There are 4 lanes on the Quay on both sides. It's foolish to think that you could be in the leftmost lane turning left, and end up in the 3rd lane after the junction. That's selfish, and these people know that they are queue jumping.

See attached image for correct lane discipline. Just think of it as each lane splitting in 2 after the junction (the common middle lane splits in 2 to the left, and to the right, depending on which turn you make).


The same lane discipline applies when traveling over the bridge in the opposite direction!

As I’ve said, this would mean that 80 to 90% of traffic would have to use the middle lane. That’s madness.

the beer revolu

I see no problem with going up the left lane and moving right after the turn to go towards Parnell Place if (and I mean, if) there is space and you are not cutting anyone off. If there isn't a gap, turn left and go around the city hall or go another way.

I really don't mind people taking advantage of gaps in traffic but I detest people forcing themselves into lanes to get to where they want to go.

grogi

Crasp wrote: »

I'm very glad you asked, OP.

Nostro and TheChizler have it.

See attached diagram.

There are 4 lanes on the Quay on both sides. It's foolish to think that you could be in the leftmost lane turning left, and end up in the 3rd lane after the junction. That's selfish, and these people know that they are queue jumping.

See attached image for correct lane discipline. Just think of it as each lane splitting in 2 after the junction (the common middle lane splits in 2 to the left, and to the right, depending on which turn you make).

A small fraction of motorist will turn left twice and head south afterwards. Similarly very small fraction of them will turn right twice heading south too.

Setup you suggest puts majority of the traffic in the middle lane. Very inefficient. IMHO all lanes - left and center (for turning left) and center and right (for those turning right) - should allow continuing going North.

The same lane discipline applies when traveling over the bridge in the opposite direction!

And again it is sub-optimal from traffic bandwidth point of view. For the traffic going Southbound, it is optimal to use two left-most lanes in front of the City Hall.

GavRedKing

If I'm going towards Parnell Place, I'll take the middle lane at the side of the City Hall but I'm more than aware that people in the left hand lane will cut over and go down Parnell Place too, so I'm pretty wary of it any time I'm at those lights.

Sure the bus stop for the 202 bus is in the left hand lane and the bus goes down Parnell Place so while I think the middle lane is where you should be, I wouldn't think it as gospel when at those lights as cars and buses will move over.

AugustusMinimus

grogi wrote: »

A small fraction of motorist will turn left twice and head south afterwards. Similarly very small fraction of them will turn right twice heading south too.

Setup you suggest puts majority of the traffic in the middle lane. Very inefficient. IMHO all lanes - left and center (for turning left) and center and right (for those turning right) - should allow continuing going North.



And again it is sub-optimal from traffic bandwidth point of view. For the traffic going Southbound, it is optimal to use two left-most lanes in front of the City Hall.

My view exactly. By far best usage and throughput.

grogi

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

My view exactly. By far best usage and throughput.

Sometimes I get a feeling that my citymates like to queue in one lane just for fun...

TheChizler

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

My view exactly. By far best usage and throughput.

Of course it's much more efficient but in the abscence of directions from the City Council I think you have to consider what's logical for the junction itself. You wouldn't expect someone unfamiliar with Cork (or most people for that matter) to very quickly reason that most people will being going towards Parnell place, therefore use both lanes for that. You can't reasonably expect people to plan lane usage beyond the current junction when there are no signs or indicators (not including local knowledge) to help you make a decision.

AugustusMinimus

TheChizler wrote: »

Of course it's much more efficient but in the abscence of directions from the City Council I think you have to consider what's logical for the junction itself. You wouldn't expect someone unfamiliar with Cork (or most people for that matter) to very quickly reason that most people will being going towards Parnell place, therefore use both lanes for that. You can't reasonably expect people to plan lane usage beyond the current junction when there are no signs or indicators (not including local knowledge) to help you make a decision.

I agree. Without signage or lines it is impossible to tell what is the correct usage for this junction.

The way I’ve described is my preference though for many reasons.