Obtaining Insurance: 24yo, Learner Permit, Inexpensive Vehicle

mr_jackapple

Hello everyone,

I'm 24yo and I've had a learner permit license for a number of years.

I did some lessons in the past few years but never really had the cash to purchase a car or insurance. Now that I've been working full time for well over a year now, I feel it's the right time to start driving.

I'm looking to spend about between 1000-1500EUR on a car. Nothing crazy, but something reliable that'll get me from A-B and back again.

Purchasing the car, taxing it, renewing the NCT etc... is not the problem.

However, the insurance is another story.

I've had quotes vary between 2,900EUR and upwards towards 4,500EUR

It's just crazy and I don't know when/ where to start.

If there is anyone out there who has any suggestions, tips, or experience in my shoes, I'd love to hear from you.

Although I could "potentially" afford that, it's still costing an arm and a leg to become road-worthy.

I could definitely wait another few years but there is no guarantee that insurance prices will reduce.

Any advice is much appreciated.

Stephen15

Are you driving unaccompanied?

mr_jackapple

Stephen15 wrote: »

Are you driving unaccompanied?

I have my learners permit but don’t have insurance yet. So the answer is no, because I’m not driving yet. I’ve only done lessons with an instructor.

Stephen15

mr_jackapple wrote: »

I have my learners permit but don’t have insurance yet. So the answer is no, because I’m not driving yet. I’ve only done lessons with an instructor.

Personally I'd wait until I've passed my test and have a full licence before I'd start thinking about buying a car.

mr_jackapple

Stephen15 wrote: »

Personally I'd wait until I've passed my test and have a full licence before I'd start thinking about buying a car.

True, but to have a good chance of passing a test, you need to have more real world driving experience without being in an instructors car. I tried it before and made that realisation. 1-2 hours driving experience per week in lessons is not going to get me passing the test.

magicbastarder

the person you will have to accompany you while you drive until you get your licence - could you drive their car as a named driver until you pass? would be much cheaper.

Isambard

mr_jackapple wrote: »

True, but to have a good chance of passing a test, you need to have more real world driving experience without being in an instructors car. I tried it before and made that realisation. 1-2 hours driving experience per week in lessons is not going to get me passing the test.

I never drove anything other than my Instructors car when I was learning. You get less bad habits that way

zoe 3619

Could you become a named driver on a parents car and gain experience that way?
Or if you have a local insurance broker you could call in for a chat.Think some insurance companies have schemes where your driving is restricted or monitered in exchange for slightly cheaper premiums
If you're looking to buy a car aim for something with a 1 litre engine and less than 10 years old.
Put in for a test as soon as possible.You will need a qualified driver in the car with you until you pass.

cgcsb

The system is set up so basically you have to be a named driver on your parents car for a year or two.
This assumes that:
a)your parents can drive
b)you are from a wealthy family
c)you get along with your folks
d)they have their on car
e)they've loads of free time on their hands

Aside from that you'll be driving illegally/unaccompanied which is what most people do because it's impossible not to. I couldn't drive with my dad in the car because he's too moany and too highly strung.

rizzee

Rent the instructors car on the day of test. I never drove as a learner, did 10 or so lessons back in 2010 and passed in instructors car. Got a cheap Punto 1.2 after I passed the test and TPFT insurance was 1398 euro in my own name. Much better off.

Isambard

cgcsb wrote: »

The system is set up so basically you have to be a named driver on your parents car for a year or two.
This assumes that:
a)your parents can drive
b)you are from a wealthy family
c)you get along with your folks
d)they have their on car
e)they've loads of free time on their hands

Aside from that you'll be driving illegally/unaccompanied which is what most people do because it's impossible not to. I couldn't drive with my dad in the car because he's too moany and too highly strung.

the system is now set up so that you prove your competence before you go driving. The only driving you should be doing beforehand is lessons/practice.

howiya

cgcsb wrote: »

The system is set up so basically you have to be a named driver on your parents car for a year or two.
This assumes that:
a)your parents can drive
b)you are from a wealthy family
c)you get along with your folks
d)they have their on car
e)they've loads of free time on their hands

Aside from that you'll be driving illegally/unaccompanied which is what most people do because it's impossible not to. I couldn't drive with my dad in the car because he's too moany and too highly strung.

Plenty of people don't drive illegally/unaccompanied. It is not impossible

Alun

howiya wrote: »

Plenty of people don't drive illegally/unaccompanied. It is not impossible

And in the many countries where the only way to learn to drive is with a qualified driving instructor in a dual control car they somehow magically seem to be able to learn to drive, and pass a more strenuous test than ours. Not impossible at all.

cgcsb

howiya wrote: »

Plenty of people don't drive illegally/unaccompanied. It is not impossible

Right it's not impossible, just extremely impractical and unenforceable.

Isambard

cgcsb wrote: »

Right it's not impossible, just extremely impractical and unenforceable.

well that depends on whether your intention is to learn to drive or have a means of transport. The second should follow the first.

howiya

cgcsb wrote: »

Right it's not impossible, just extremely impractical and unenforceable.

I never found it impractical. Did lessons in instructors car. Added as a named driver to the gf's car. Passed test in a little over six months from date of first lesson. Never drove her car unaccompanied.

dashcamdanny

howiya wrote: »

I never found it impractical. Did lessons in instructors car. Added as a named driver to the gf's car. Passed test in a little over six months from date of first lesson. Never drove her car unaccompanied.

Same here. My parents would not have let me go out alone anyway.

Its a bit of a joke the way attitudes are here.
The only place I have heard of where you can fail your test and drive home home from the test center.

magicbastarder

how is that handled in other countries? you fail your test, are you not allowed back in the car?

Isambard

magicbastarder wrote: »

how is that handled in other countries? you fail your test, are you not allowed back in the car?

It works the same as here, you aren't allowed to drive unaccompanied. You have to bring someone with you. You can't drive home unaccopanied legally from a failed test.

Alun

dashcamdanny wrote: »

The only place I have heard of where you can fail your test and drive home home from the test center.

Well you can, as in nobody will physically stop you, but it remains illegal to do so if unaccompanied.

magicbastarder

Isambard wrote: »

It works the same as here, you aren't allowed to drive unaccompanied. You have to bring someone with you. You can't drive home unaccopanied legally from a failed test.

That was my point. I assumed dashcamdanny was referring to the old system where in certain circumstances, you could drive away from the test centre unaccompanied, after failing your test.

Alun

That was the 2nd provisional derogation, long since scrapped.

cgcsb

howiya wrote: »

I never found it impractical. Did lessons in instructors car. Added as a named driver to the gf's car. Passed test in a little over six months from date of first lesson. Never drove her car unaccompanied.

You were fortunate enough to have someone to help you, your gf.

cgcsb

magicbastarder wrote: »

how is that handled in other countries? you fail your test, are you not allowed back in the car?

It's a rule that is not enforced and practically unenforceable across Europe

cgcsb

It also takes months to get a test in this country. Technology could be used to restrict L drivers. Let them drive alone after 12 EDT lessons provided they get their cars tracked by GPS and that data is fed to the gardaí and the insurer, this way they won't be speeding, driving on motorways, you could even stop them driving at night and it'd be easily enforced. Compliance would be 100%

Isambard

cgcsb wrote: »

It's a rule that is not enforced and practically unenforceable across Europe

that's simply not true. It's only Ireland where a Government officially said on a second Provisional you could drive unaccompanied and where this mindset lingers despite it no longer being the case. In the UK for instance it is almost unknown for people to drive unaccompanied , only those people who would break all the Laws anyway do so.

howiya

cgcsb wrote: »

You were fortunate enough to have someone to help you, your gf.

Yes but I wouldn't have had access to her car 24/7. We weren't living together and I would have only driven her car if we were going somewhere for the weekend. I'll admit I think the practice helped but when she wasn't around I booked extra lessons in the run up to the test.

She wouldn't have let me drive her car without her though but now that we are living together and I have a full licence she does.

It also takes months to get a test in this country. Technology could be used to restrict L drivers. Let them drive alone after 12 EDT lessons provided they get their cars tracked by GPS and that data is fed to the gardaí and the insurer, this way they won't be speeding, driving on motorways, you could even stop them driving at night and it'd be easily enforced. Compliance would be 100%

Completing your 12 lessons doesn't make you a qualified driver. Why is it only in this country we think unqualified drivers should be allowed on the road unaccompanied?

Maybe we could apply your GPS restrictions to all cars and everyone then has to comply with the rules of the road rather than just unaccompanied learners.

magicbastarder

yeah; the suggestion that someone should be allowed drive unaccompanied after 12 hours in a car is a rather strange one. and it's not feasible to suggest the driving school could or should sign off on them being competent to do so.

cgcsb

Isambard wrote: »

that's simply not true. It's only Ireland where a Government officially said on a second Provisional you could drive unaccompanied and where this mindset lingers despite it no longer being the case. In the UK for instance it is almost unknown for people to drive unaccompanied , only those people who would break all the Laws anyway do so.

It's a law frequently broken in the UK. It may seem to be less so because 83% of the UK's population live in urban areas and the country is 3 times more densely populated than Ireland in general meaning that the vast majority of people have access to public transport services, which removes the incentive to break the law. Ireland has very poor density of population and 40% of us live in rural areas scattered to the four sheets of the wind, necessitating private transport.

cgcsb

howiya wrote: »

Completing your 12 lessons doesn't make you a qualified driver. Why is it only in this country we think unqualified drivers should be allowed on the road unaccompanied?

Because the current laws are unenforceable, our spread out population makes us dependent on cars for employment and the months spent waiting on a test make it too difficult to plan one's life around.

Isambard

cgcsb wrote: »

It's a law frequently broken in the UK. It may seem to be less so because 83% of the UK's population live in urban areas and the country is 3 times more densely populated than Ireland in general meaning that the vast majority of people have access to public transport services, which removes the incentive to break the law. Ireland has very poor density of population and 40% of us live in rural areas scattered to the four sheets of the wind, necessitating private transport.

fair enough but no justification to drive illegally before passing a test.
The Law in the UK is mostly broken by people who would also drive with no MoT, tax and Insurance .
In Ireland people driving on provisionals unaccompanied are very often people who otherwise are law-abiding citizens.

Kh1993

Got insured as a learner for 2400 few months back, came down by a good amount once passed recently. Check AXA, First and AA I'd say.

Obviously if you can get in as a named driver, its cheaper. However some people can be unfortunate if you haven't a regular car to access (eg. parents don't have one). It's a lot easier to get people you know who have a licence to go driving with you sporadically then get insured as a named driver if you've no close relatives/partners to piggy back on their car and insurance.

One problem I found when just relying on lessons was that you waste at least 10/15 mins trying to get a feel of the car and driving again, especially if you're only managing one lesson a week. I wouldn't have passed without practice in my own.

HonalD

cgcsb wrote: »

It also takes months to get a test in this country. Technology could be used to restrict L drivers. Let them drive alone after 12 EDT lessons provided they get their cars tracked by GPS and that data is fed to the gardaí and the insurer, this way they won't be speeding, driving on motorways, you could even stop them driving at night and it'd be easily enforced. Compliance would be 100%

Sure, we can put a micro chip in everyone's arms and monitor their movements too.........
The insurance databases in Ireland are not connected to the Gardai databases at present, so your "solution" whilst makes sense is not practical in Ireland at present.

HonalD

cgcsb wrote: »

Isambard wrote: »

that's simply not true. It's only Ireland where a Government officially said on a second Provisional you could drive unaccompanied and where this mindset lingers despite it no longer being the case. In the UK for instance it is almost unknown for people to drive unaccompanied , only those people who would break all the Laws anyway do so.

It's a law frequently broken in the UK. It may seem to be less so because 83% of the UK's population live in urban areas and the country is 3 times more densely populated than Ireland in general meaning that the vast majority of people have access to public transport services, which removes the incentive to break the law. Ireland has very poor density of population and 40% of us live in rural areas scattered to the four sheets of the wind, necessitating private transport.

Your suggested link between breaking the law and density of population is interesting. A stronger link remains between breaking the law and getting away with it, whether living in a densely populated area or not is of lesser importance.

HonalD

cgcsb wrote: »

howiya wrote: »

Completing your 12 lessons doesn't make you a qualified driver. Why is it only in this country we think unqualified drivers should be allowed on the road unaccompanied?

Because the current laws are unenforceable, our spread out population makes us dependent on cars for employment and the months spent waiting on a test make it too difficult to plan one's life around.

I think you mean that the relevant laws are unenforced not unenforceable. But is that really a justification to break the law?

magicbastarder

HonalD wrote: »

Your suggested link between breaking the law and density of population is interesting. A stronger link remains between breaking the law and getting away with it, whether living in a densely populated area or not is of lesser importance.

i wonder how much of a link there is between likelihood of getting caught in a remote rural area vs. likelihood of being caught in a more heavily populated area.

magicbastarder

going slightly off topic - legally, what are the responsibilities of a fully qualified driver when accompanying a learner? what sort of circumstances are there where the law would place responsibility on the fully qualified driver in case of any issues?

i have a vague memory that the requirement for the accompanying driver to be sober is implied rather than explicit in law?

Macy0161

cgcsb wrote: »

It also takes months to get a test in this country. Technology could be used to restrict L drivers. Let them drive alone after 12 EDT lessons provided they get their cars tracked by GPS and that data is fed to the gardaí and the insurer, this way they won't be speeding, driving on motorways, you could even stop them driving at night and it'd be easily enforced. Compliance would be 100%

A tech solution would be better focused on enforcement of current laws. ANPR*, linked to owner database.

*along with tax, insurance, nct, speeding, bus lanes, red lights etc etc etc.