Recommend a dentist in Budapest

aindriu80

Hi,

Can someone please recommend a dentist in Budapest ?

I need a root canal on a second molar upper tooth (2nd last tooth at the back, last being the wisdom tooth). Recently I got a filling on the tooth after I had a small hole in it. The dentist said if it was not comfortable while eating I can either use my other side, get it extracted or get root canal treatment to disconnect the nerve.

I have heard people getting work done like a root canal over a few days in Budapest and it would probably work out cheaper or maybe the same price but a short vacation thrown in.

Thanks!

Fishorsealant

Dentistry McDentistface

aindriu80

Fishorsealant wrote: »

Dentistry McDentistface

?

Hillmanhunter1

I am not a dentist, but if you send me a PM I'll tell you where I had excellent work done in Budapest approx. 7 years ago.

I'm still happy with the work done.

Oral Surgeon

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

I am not a dentist, but if you send me a PM I'll tell you where I had excellent work done in Budapest approx. 7 years ago.

I'm still happy with the work done.

OP, check out Hillman's thread

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056526627

These are the guys he/she will recommend.... draw your own conclusions!!

Hillmanhunter1

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

OP, check out Hillman's thread

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056526627

These are the guys he/she will recommend.... draw your own conclusions!!

As I said OP, I am not a dentist, I have no financial interest in the teeth business, nor any clinical expertise.

There is a view among some posters and moderators on this forum that you must be a dentist in order to have a valid opinion , and that the person in the chair with his mouth (and wallet) open has no right to have an opinion.

I don't advise people to travel (or not to travel) abroad for dental treatment, I just inform people that I did, and my head did not explode.

aindriu80

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

As I said OP, I am not a dentist, I have no financial interest in the teeth business, nor any clinical expertise.

There is a view among some posters and moderators on this forum that you must be a dentist in order to have a valid opinion , and that the person in the chair with his mouth (and wallet) open has no right to have an opinion.

I don't advise people to travel (or not to travel) abroad for dental treatment, I just inform people that I did, and my head did not explode.

Many thanks for creating a full thread on dentists in Budapest. There is a lot there and its going to help me make a decision.

Oral Surgeon

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

As I said OP, I am not a dentist, I have no financial interest in the teeth business, nor any clinical expertise.

There is a view among some posters and moderators on this forum that you must be a dentist in order to have a valid opinion , and that the person in the chair with his mouth (and wallet) open has no right to have an opinion.

I don't advise people to travel (or not to travel) abroad for dental treatment, I just inform people that I did, and my head did not explode.

As I said in my post, read the thread and draw your own conclusions....

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Hillmanhunter1

"You can check out any time you like but you can never leave".

aindriu80

I take it you have your own opinion

btkm8unsl0w5r4

aindriu80 wrote: »

I take it you have your own opinion

Search the forum you will find tons of opinions, first hand experiences and pictures of cases. Draw your own conclusions and make an informed decision. Be aware also that you can get that standard and cost of treatment here in ireland now.

Big_G

Done to death, and nobody here has ever said that a patient doesn't have a right to an opinion. Some opinions are, however, more valid than others when it comes to objective analysis of the quality of work.

Hillmanhunter1

Big_G wrote: »

Done to death, and nobody here has ever said that a patient doesn't have a right to an opinion. Some opinions are, however, more valid than others when it comes to objective analysis of the quality of work.[/QUOTE]

You may be surprised to learn that I couldn't agree with you more!

Where we may however diverge is on the question of where to look for objective analysis, and without fear of contradiction I think it's fair to say that the one place you will not find objective analysis is on an internet discussion board.

My own opinions regarding the quality of the experience I had in Budapest are of course subjective - I have never represented them to be otherwise. Other contributors will have to answer that question for themselves.

If I were looking for objective analysis of the dental business in Hungary and Ireland I would look elsewhere. For example, there is the EU Manual of Dental Practice 2015 published by the Council of European Dentists (of which the Irish Dental Association is a full member). You can find a link to the manual on this page:
http://www.cedentists.eu/library/eu-manual.html

This manual (produced by dentists) is "a comprehensive reference document describing the legal and ethical regulations, dental training requirements, oral health systems and the organization of dental practices in 32European (EU and EEA) countries".

Interestingly the manual also contains some important contextual information, so Chart 1 (page 15) shows that in 2012 GDP per capita in Ireland was roughly twice that of Hungary. More recent data suggests that the gap has further widened. Ireland and Hungary both have roughly the same number of dentists per head of population (Chart 6 - Page 28), and in both Hungary and Ireland patients tend to see their dentist approximately once a year (Table 1 - Page 29).

Younger patients seem to do better in Ireland - at 12 years of age far fewer have decayed/missing/filled teeth (Chart 7 - Page 30) whereas older people in Ireland are far more likely to have no teeth (Chart 8 - page 30).

Looking at training, Hungary has 4 dental schools to Ireland's 2, and in both countries the duration of the basic course is 5 years. Hungary takes in 310 students each year compared to Ireland's 86 (all Table 3 - Page 33). There are 4,973 active dentists in Hungary and 2,200 in Ireland (Table 8 - page 39). In passing Hungary has a population of 9.7m to Ireland's 4.7m (2017 numbers).

As regards continuing professional development both countries require 250 hours in 5 years. This is mandatory in Hungary and an obligation in Ireland (Table 6 - page 35).

In both countries the profession is regulated by the Government - Ministry of Health in Hungary and the Irish Dental Council (semi-state body) in Ireland (Table 7 - Page 38).


Ireland has a relatively high proportion of dentists who qualified overseas - approx. 24% to Hungary's 8% (Chart 12 - Page 41).

When we come to specialists there is a quite startling divergence, Hungary has 1,918 specialists, almost 10 time the 194 specialists in Ireland (Table 11 - Page 42). Even allowing for the higher population in Hungary this is a significant difference.

Corporate practices (i.e. limited liability companies) are allowed in Hungary but not in Ireland - in fact Ireland is one of only 3 jurisdictions that ban this (Table 22 - Page 53).

Irish dentists pay much higher income taxes , a 41% top rate, compared to their Hungarian counterparts who have a 16% top rate, though VAT is higher in Hungary (Table 27- page).

Turning to the Chapters that examine each country in detail (Page 180 for the report on Hungary and Page 193 for Ireland) there is nothing that jumps out as being remarkable in either jurisdiction.

Regarding standards it is also worth noting that the basic standards for ordinary and specialized dentistry are common standards, established by the EU, and in consequence of which dentists have freedom to practice across the EU.

So, to sum up, dental standards in Ireland and Hungary are the same, but Hungary has a much lower standard of living/costs and a much higher proportion of specialists.

If any dentists want to take issue with this please don't bend my ear, take it up with the Irish Dental Association and the Council of European Dentists.

Oral Surgeon

Post too big to read......

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

Big_G wrote: »

Done to death, and nobody here has ever said that a patient doesn't have a right to an opinion. Some opinions are, however, more valid than others when it comes to objective analysis of the quality of work.[/QUOTE]

You may be surprised to learn that I couldn't agree with you more!

Where we may however diverge is on the question of where to look for objective analysis, and without fear of contradiction I think it's fair to say that the one place you will not find objective analysis is on an internet discussion board.

My own opinions regarding the quality of the experience I had in Budapest are of course subjective - I have never represented them to be otherwise. Other contributors will have to answer that question for themselves.

If I were looking for objective analysis of the dental business in Hungary and Ireland I would look elsewhere. For example, there is the EU Manual of Dental Practice 2015 published by the Council of European Dentists (of which the Irish Dental Association is a full member). You can find a link to the manual on this page:
http://www.cedentists.eu/library/eu-manual.html

This manual (produced by dentists) is "a comprehensive reference document describing the legal and ethical regulations, dental training requirements, oral health systems and the organization of dental practices in 32European (EU and EEA) countries".

Interestingly the manual also contains some important contextual information, so Chart 1 (page 15) shows that in 2012 GDP per capita in Ireland was roughly twice that of Hungary. More recent data suggests that the gap has further widened. Ireland and Hungary both have roughly the same number of dentists per head of population (Chart 6 - Page 28), and in both Hungary and Ireland patients tend to see their dentist approximately once a year (Table 1 - Page 29).

Younger patients seem to do better in Ireland - at 12 years of age far fewer have decayed/missing/filled teeth (Chart 7 - Page 30) whereas older people in Ireland are far more likely to have no teeth (Chart 8 - page 30).

Looking at training, Hungary has 4 dental schools to Ireland's 2, and in both countries the duration of the basic course is 5 years. Hungary takes in 310 students each year compared to Ireland's 86 (all Table 3 - Page 33). There are 4,973 active dentists in Hungary and 2,200 in Ireland (Table 8 - page 39). In passing Hungary has a population of 9.7m to Ireland's 4.7m (2017 numbers).

As regards continuing professional development both countries require 250 hours in 5 years. This is mandatory in Hungary and an obligation in Ireland (Table 6 - page 35).

In both countries the profession is regulated by the Government - Ministry of Health in Hungary and the Irish Dental Council (semi-state body) in Ireland (Table 7 - Page 38).


Ireland has a relatively high proportion of dentists who qualified overseas - approx. 24% to Hungary's 8% (Chart 12 - Page 41).

When we come to specialists there is a quite startling divergence, Hungary has 1,918 specialists, almost 10 time the 194 specialists in Ireland (Table 11 - Page 42). Even allowing for the higher population in Hungary this is a significant difference.

Corporate practices (i.e. limited liability companies) are allowed in Hungary but not in Ireland - in fact Ireland is one of only 3 jurisdictions that ban this (Table 22 - Page 53).

Irish dentists pay much higher income taxes , a 41% top rate, compared to their Hungarian counterparts who have a 16% top rate, though VAT is higher in Hungary (Table 27- page).

Turning to the Chapters that examine each country in detail (Page 180 for the report on Hungary and Page 193 for Ireland) there is nothing that jumps out as being remarkable in either jurisdiction.

Regarding standards it is also worth noting that the basic standards for ordinary and specialized dentistry are common standards, established by the EU, and in consequence of which dentists have freedom to practice across the EU.

So, to sum up, dental standards in Ireland and Hungary are the same, but Hungary has a much lower standard of living/costs and a much higher proportion of specialists.

If any dentists want to take issue with this please don't bend my ear, take it up with the Irish Dental Association and the Council of European Dentists.

ohnonotgmail

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

Big_G wrote: »

Done to death, and nobody here has ever said that a patient doesn't have a right to an opinion. Some opinions are, however, more valid than others when it comes to objective analysis of the quality of work.

So, to sum up, dental standards in Ireland and Hungary are the same, but Hungary has a much lower standard of living/costs and a much higher proportion of specialists.

If any dentists want to take issue with this please don't bend my ear, take it up with the Irish Dental Association and the Council of European Dentists.

Is the issue not with the standards of the dentists themselves but with dental tourism where patients have a lot of work done in a very short period of time? A period of time much shorter than is typical. Added to that the difficulty in getting aftercare. If you have problems with the work of a dentist in the country you live in then it is a lot easier to get those problems resolved than having to travel to a foreign country for same at extra expense and time. Did you not have that problem yourself?

aindriu80

Thanks everyone for posting on the topic. I had a lot of work done on my teeth over the years - I got a brace, a tooth implant, crown, various extractions, white fillings etc here, all top quality. The only thing I really complain about is teeth I didn't get seen to.

So, to sum up, dental standards in Ireland and Hungary are the same, but Hungary has a much lower standard of living/costs and a much higher proportion of specialists.

I think it boils down to living costs, everything in Ireland is way more expensive. I don't think you get any less of a service in Budapest. You need to know what you need to get done and not have any complications. I think a holiday in Budapest with dental work included is a great option.

ohnonotgmail

aindriu80 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for posting on the topic. I had a lot of work done on my teeth over the years - I got a brace, a tooth implant, crown, various extractions, white fillings etc here, all top quality. The only thing I really complain about is teeth I didn't get seen to.



I think it boils down to living costs, everything in Ireland is way more expensive. I don't think you get any less of a service in Budapest. You need to know what you need to get done and not have any complications. I think a holiday in Budapest with dental work included is a great option.

do you speak hungarian? will any procedures involve multiple visits with sufficient time between each visit? how will you do follow-up care?

Fishorsealant

A fool and his money are easily parted as the saying goes.

Hillmanhunter1

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

do you speak hungarian? will any procedures involve multiple visits with sufficient time between each visit? how will you do follow-up care?

In my experience all of the EU-based dentists who advertise for Irish/British customers speak perfectly good English, as do the dental nurses and hygienists. There is no issue with communications.

The professional standards that they are required to adhere to are the exact same as the Irish standards. I have seen no evidence that the general standards of treatment in Hungary are lower than in Ireland. I'm sure that some patients are less satisfied than others, but |I'm equally sure that this is the case in Ireland too.

Regarding follow-up care, it depends on what you mean. If it is part of the treatment then you need to discuss that with the dentist and factor it into your calculation of the costs, risks and benefits.

If it is normal care and maintenance you can go to a dentist in Ireland.

If it is a major job you're back to the same question that you first had, whether to have it done in Ireland or abroad.

As aindriu80 said "You need to know what you need to get done and not have any complications". The cost is far less than in Ireland, and the standards are the same, but it's fair to say that if something does go wrong you're in Budapest rather than Balbriggan.

Fishorsealant

Hillman , you seem to have it all sorted out.

You speak about a standard of dentistry.
If you stop to think logically for a second you will realise that people get the treatment done in a couple of days when the rehabilitative stages themselves such as periodontal treatment should occur over weeks and months. Since this has to be skipped to provide the treatment in such a short period of time what does this say about the standard of care?

Hillmanhunter1

Fishorsealant wrote: »

Hillman , you seem to have it all sorted out.

You speak about a standard of dentistry.
If you stop to think logically for a second you will realise that people get the treatment done in a couple of days when the rehabilitative stages themselves such as periodontal treatment should occur over weeks and months. Since this has to be skipped to provide the treatment in such a short period of time what does this say about the standard of care?

What I say is very simple.

The general standards of training and practice of ordinary and specialized dentistry in Ireland and Hungary (and across the EU for that matter) are broadly the same. In consequence of which Hungarian dentists could practice in Ireland and vice-versa.

If you are aware of an "objective analysis", to use Big_G's phrase that evidences that the standards of training and practice in Hungary are lower than the EU common standard please post a link.

Hillmanhunter1

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Is the issue not with the standards of the dentists themselves but with dental tourism where patients have a lot of work done in a very short period of time? A period of time much shorter than is typical. Added to that the difficulty in getting aftercare. If you have problems with the work of a dentist in the country you live in then it is a lot easier to get those problems resolved than having to travel to a foreign country for same at extra expense and time. Did you not have that problem yourself?

No.

ohnonotgmail

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

No.

so you never had to travel to get earlier work repaired?

davo10

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

No.

No?

Hillmanhunter1

davo10 wrote: »

No?

That's lazy.

Show me where I said that I had a problem with the work done.

Bet you can't!

ohnonotgmail

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

That's lazy.

Show me where I said that I had a problem with the work done.

Bet you can't!

so you never had to get any work redone or repaired?

Hillmanhunter1

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so you never had to get any work redone or repaired?

Correct.

I never had work redone because of any problem, I had one veneer that came off, normal wear and tear. I have had no problem with the work done.

I replaced a perfectly good set of dentures with a lighted colored set - vanity is a terrible thing.

As I said, show me where I said that I had a problem with the work done.

Bet you can't!

ohnonotgmail

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

Correct.

I never had work redone because of any problem, I had one veneer that came off, normal wear and tear. I have had no problem with the work done.

I replaced a perfectly good set of dentures with a lighted colored set - vanity is a terrible thing.

As I said, show me where I said that I had a problem with the work done.

Bet you can't!

i never said YOU had a problem with the work done. But i certainly would have.

Hillmanhunter1

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i never said YOU had a problem with the work done. But i certainly would have.

More laziness.

Why would you have a problem?

Be specific, show us that you know what you're talking about.

ohnonotgmail

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

More laziness.

Why would you have a problem?

Be specific, show us that you know what you're talking about.

i have no intention of rereading your tedious thread.

Hillmanhunter1

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i have no intention of rereading your tedious thread.

That was a put up or shut up moment.

You made your choice.

ohnonotgmail

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

That was a put up or shut up moment.

You made your choice.

didnt realise that you had been made a mod. you had problems that no reasonable person would find acceptable but your ego refuses to allow you to accept that. a salutary lesson for anybody thinking of going abroad for dental work. I'll leave it there.

Hillmanhunter1

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

didnt realise that you had been made a mod. you had problems that no reasonable person would find acceptable but your ego refuses to allow you to accept that. a salutary lesson for anybody thinking of going abroad for dental work. I'll leave it there.

Still no evidence?

Let me give you some time. I'm off to bed now, and heading off for a much deserved long weekend break in the morning. I'll check back in next Tuesday. How about that - you have 5 days to find any post of mine that suggests that I have had a problem (as opposed to normal maintenance).

Ciao.

Oral Surgeon

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

Still no evidence?

Let me give you some time. I'm off to bed now, and heading off for a much deserved long weekend break in the morning. I'll check back in next Tuesday. How about that - you have 5 days to find any post of mine that suggests that I have had a problem (as opposed to normal maintenance).

Ciao.

"You have 5 days" who do you think you are hillman!!??

ohnonotgmail

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

Still no evidence?

Let me give you some time. I'm off to bed now, and heading off for a much deserved long weekend break in the morning. I'll check back in next Tuesday. How about that - you have 5 days to find any post of mine that suggests that I have had a problem (as opposed to normal maintenance).

Ciao.

Or what??

Oral Surgeon

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Or what??

Or else he'll send you to his dentist!!!

ohnonotgmail

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Or else he'll send you to his dentist!!!

Is this him?

Oral Surgeon

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Is this him?

Is it safe??

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

Correct.

I had one veneer that came off, normal wear and tear. I have had no problem with the work done.

I replaced a perfectly good set of dentures with a lighted colored set - vanity is a terrible thing.

As I said, show me where I said that I had a problem with the work done.

Bet you can't!

Think the answer is in the question there. As always this topic is descending into farce. But as always it is interesting to see the gymnastic mental processes in the mind of the dental tourism patient.

Big_G

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

What I say is very simple.

The general standards of training and practice of ordinary and specialized dentistry in Ireland and Hungary (and across the EU for that matter) are broadly the same. In consequence of which Hungarian dentists could practice in Ireland and vice-versa.

If you are aware of an "objective analysis", to use Big_G's phrase that evidences that the standards of training and practice in Hungary are lower than the EU common standard please post a link.

I was not referring to standards when I was talking about objective analysis, but treatment provided. Standards do not reflect daily practice. Regulation becomes largely irrelevant when the treatment is provided in short periods of time and the patient returns to their home country some distance away. This is the definition of geographic success. Many of the patients I have seen have no place to complain to when they were informed that their treatment required remediation urgently at their expense. It's all well and good that your dentist speaks English in a foreign country, but how do you navigate the legal or regulatory system when something goes wrong. In Ireland, a patient can complain to the dentist as well as the Dental Complaints Resolution Service or the Dental Council. In Hungary, the registration body is voluntary and the regulation is by the Health Department. Poor treatment outcomes from dental tourism are not unique to the Ireland/Hungary comparison. I see it here in Texas with Mexico being so close, and I saw it in Australia with Thailand/Bali in close proximity. Dental tourism simply doesn't work in my opinion, despite your view of your own treatment outcome (n=1).

With regard to the number of specialists, Ireland only maintains a register for orthodontists and Oral Surgeons not any of the other dental specialities such as prosthodontics, endodontics, paediatric dentistry, oral medicine, periodontics, oral radiology etc. That is why the numbers in Ireland appear low. No surprise that we have a higher proportion of foreign trained dentists. That is largely due to economic migration.