Data Protection Request to Online Bookmaker, anyone?

Gautama

Hi,

I was wondering if any members have submitted a data protection request to an online bookmaker, and how to go about it. Is it just a case of sending an email asking them for their Data Protection Request Form (as I've done in the past with a bank) and pay them the €6.35? Do they have such a form and if not, do I have to spell out their legal obligations?

The reason I ask is that I've been with BoylesSports for about ten years and have been restricted by them for most of that time, even to the extent that I can only access my account via laptop browser. Can't get in via apps or even iPad browser. It has to be my laptop.
I rarely used the account anyway as their odds are rarely competitive and I've over a dozen other online bookmakers to choose from.
But things have come to a head. They won't pay out on Folsom Blue's fourth place in the BoyleSports Irish Grand National, despite backing him each way and the bet receipt stating terms of 1,2,3,4,5,6 places. The email tennis during this week has been a masterclass in obfuscation from them.
I'm unlikely to get paid out, but I want to get something out of them. So if all I can get is knowing that an admin monkey spends a couple of hours printing off data dumps, email correspondence (advertising), etc, shoving it in a parcel and posting it to me, so be it.

And of course, if they refuse, I can send that information onto the offices of the Data Commissioner and let the law take it from there.

I've zero to gain from this exercise, apart from knowing they've more to lose that the place money they are denying me.

Thanks.

Juwwi

Why aren't they paying out on Folsom Blue each way ?

danganabu

Any reason why you are not contacting IBAS?

That restrcition about only being able to access from a certain IP address is a new one on me, never ever heard of a case like that, it litteraly makes no sense to me, and if they were suspicious that you were allowing other people to use the account surely they would have just closed it.

All that said the very fact that Boyles call themselves a bookie is surely a violation of trading standards!!

ancuncha

If you have trouble with them, just wait untill 25th of May the new GDPR laws come into effect
the short story is they legally have to give you your data under EU law, in a readble format, within 30 days and (if you want, likely not in this case) force them to delete any and all data they have in relation to you

more here http://gdprandyou.ie/

Gautama

robbie1977 wrote: »

Why aren't they paying out on Folsom Blue each way ?

Because my account is restricted and there was a special offer on that market. Or words to that effect.

danganabu

Gautama wrote: »

Because my account is restricted and there was a special offer on that market. Or words to that effect.

They took the best under them terms, tough sh*t to them, they havent a leg to stand on, contact IBAS straight away.

Gautama

ancuncha wrote: »

If you have trouble with them, just wait untill 25th of May the new GDPR laws come into effect

Yes, I’m aware of this. I’ve left €12.70 in my account, enough for two Data Protection requests.
I’m intending two requests, one on either side of that date.
Of zero benefit to me, but a bit of paperwork headache for them. Twice over.

Fanny Wank

Gautama wrote: »

Because my account is restricted and there was a special offer on that market. Or words to that effect.

They have to pay 4 places anyhow due to the number of runners in a handicap. Whatever about not giving you the extra places which would be discretionary and probably deemed a special offer which won't apply to a restricted account. However Folsom Blue finished 4th so you wouldn't be availing of a special offer

It no joy drop Paul Fairhead an email. I'd be 100% sure you will get paid out

Take a look at Paul Fairhead (@BoycottBetfred): https://twitter.com/BoycottBetfred?s=09

STB.

Gautama wrote: »

.
But things have come to a head. They won't pay out on Folsom Blue's fourth place in the BoyleSports Irish Grand National, despite backing him each way and the bet receipt stating terms of 1,2,3,4,5,6 places. The email tennis during this week has been a masterclass in obfuscation from them.
I'm unlikely to get paid out, but I want to get something out of them.

Have they stated why they are not paying out on the fourth place!

Its clearly a placed horse. It was promoted to 4th as Bellshill was demoted to 5th for interference after a stewards enquiry.

Eitherway if they were paying 4,5,6 so it shouldn't be not an issue.

Fanny Wank

STB. wrote: »

Eitherway if they were paying 4,5,6 so it shouldn't be not an issue.

Special offers probably don't apply to a restricted account (assuming they actually informed you of this). Doesn't matter a damn here, horse was 4th so punter isn't availing of a "special" as even under standard ew terms 4th would pay out in that race

Boyles are a pathetic shower but I just can't see how they can wiggle out here

Gautama

danganabu wrote: »

Any reason why you are not contacting IBAS?

No reason at all, I just hadn't considered it. Looking for ideas too, and this may be one.

Thanks.

danganabu

Fanny **** wrote: »

Special offers probably don't apply to a restricted account (assuming they actually informed you of this). Doesn't matter a damn here, horse was 4th so punter isn't availing of a "special" as even under standard ew terms 4th would pay out in that race

Boyles are a pathetic shower but I just can't see how they can wiggle out here

It doesnt matter Fanny whether the account is restricted or not, if they took the bet under those terms then they cant change it post event, the time to apply the restriction was when the bet was struck.

And either way as has been said the bet was a winner without the extra places anyway.

Francie Barrett

You could try writing to the CEO.

Conor Gray.

Boylesports, Finnabair Ind Estate, Dundalk, Leinster, Ireland.

abarkie

ancuncha wrote: »

If you have trouble with them, just wait untill 25th of May the new GDPR laws come into effect
the short story is they legally have to give you your data under EU law, in a readble format, within 30 days and (if you want, likely not in this case) force them to delete any and all data they have in relation to you

more here http://gdprandyou.ie/

Exactly this.

Be interesting to see response to GDPR from bookies etc

Gautama

There has been email tennis and all they've said about their reason for not paying out (in a roundabout manner) is that I'm not eligible for special offers.

So I adopted a different tack, and asked if there had been no special offer on a 30 runner handicap, how many places would they pay?
And I also asked, in order for me to be paid on Folsom Blue, what position would he have to come?
Alas, both of these were replied with "your account is restricted therefore you are not eligible to special offers". This answers neither of the above questions.
Now I'm wondering, had Bellshill not gone bonkers over the last, and impeded FB, and had FB won as Robbie Power thought he would, would I even have gone anything in that scenario?

But my bet receipt does clearly state each-way terms of 1,2,3,4,5,6...

dudara

Gautama wrote: »

Yes, I’m aware of this. I’ve left €12.70 in my account, enough for two Data Protection requests.
I’m intending two requests, one on either side of that date.
Of zero benefit to me, but a bit of paperwork headache for them. Twice over.

FYI - Data protection requests are free under GDPR, but companies can charge a “reasonable” fee if the amount of data requested is excessive or high volume.

Fanny Wank

Gautama wrote: »

There has been email tennis and all they've said about their reason for not paying out (in a roundabout manner) is that I'm not eligible for special offers.

So I adopted a different tack, and asked if there had been no special offer on a 30 runner handicap, how many places would they pay?
And I also asked, in order for me to be paid on Folsom Blue, what position would he have to come?
Alas, both of these were replied with "your account is restricted therefore you are not eligible to special offers". This answers neither of the above questions.
Now I'm wondering, had Bellshill not gone bonkers over the last, and impeded FB, and had FB won as Robbie Power thought he would, would I even have gone anything in that scenario?

But my bet receipt does clearly state each-way terms of 1,2,3,4,5,6...

Sounds like you'll get nowhere with those circus clowns. You're not eligible for special offers so you should only have got 4 places. Folsom Blue finished 4th - there's just no basis for anything else other than a payout.

Send an email to Paul Fairhead

Billgirlylegs

Fanny **** wrote: »

Sounds like you'll get nowhere with those circus clowns. You're not eligible for special offers so you should only have got 4 places. Folsom Blue finished 4th - there's just no basis for anything else other than a payout.

Send an email to Paul Fairhead

I won,t comment on your bet - I backed him to win.

In relation to Data Protection issues - write to them, at their Head Office. Give them a week to reply, and follow up with Registered Post.

ask what their process is for retrieval of personal data. If they dont respond, write to the Data Protection Commissioner. Send him copies of what you wrote.
Email systems are handled by flunkies who have zero knowledge of data protection issues.

It,s a load of red tape and hassle, but if you want to cause grief, you can cause plenty.

ANXIOUS

dudara wrote: »

FYI - Data protection requests are free under GDPR, but companies can charge a “reasonable” fee if the amount of data requested is excessive or high volume.

Just what I was about to add and also what country is your data being held in?

BumperD

They are subject to GDPR from May. The country where your data his held doesn’t matter. As long as your an EU subject, then they are caught by the enhanced rules. Make life as uncomfortable as possible for them, google prior cases with data commissioner and frame your case accordingly

ahnowbrowncow

I closed my account with a different bookies and at the same time I also requested my my data be erased but they refused to do so as they stated my data was required for auditing purposes.

I thought we could request this already but I couldn't find anything in the Data Protection Act regarding erasure of data so I've decided to wait until GDPR comes into force to follow this up.

Is GDPR the first piece of regulation for Ireland that allows the right to be forgotten/erasure of data?

Fanny Wank

https://twitter.com/gondorffhenry/status/982541562180702211?s=19

abarkie

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

I closed my account with a different bookies and at the same time I also requested my my data be erased but they refused to do so as they stated my data was required for auditing purposes.

I thought we could request this already but I couldn't find anything in the Data Protection Act regarding erasure of data so I've decided to wait until GDPR comes into force to follow this up.

Is GDPR the first piece of regulation for Ireland that allows the right to be forgotten/erasure of data?

It does but GPDR means data can bet kept for some reasons, eg tax records

diomed

Gautama wrote: »

Hi,

I was wondering if any members have submitted a data protection request to an online bookmaker, and how to go about it. Is it just a case of sending an email asking them for their Data Protection Request Form (as I've done in the past with a bank) and pay them the €6.35? Do they have such a form and if not, do I have to spell out their legal obligations?

The reason I ask is that I've been with BoylesSports for about ten years and have been restricted by them for most of that time, even to the extent that I can only access my account via laptop browser. Can't get in via apps or even iPad browser. It has to be my laptop.
I rarely used the account anyway as their odds are rarely competitive and I've over a dozen other online bookmakers to choose from.
But things have come to a head. They won't pay out on Folsom Blue's fourth place in the BoyleSports Irish Grand National, despite backing him each way and the bet receipt stating terms of 1,2,3,4,5,6 places. The email tennis during this week has been a masterclass in obfuscation from them.
I'm unlikely to get paid out, but I want to get something out of them. So if all I can get is knowing that an admin monkey spends a couple of hours printing off data dumps, email correspondence (advertising), etc, shoving it in a parcel and posting it to me, so be it.

And of course, if they refuse, I can send that information onto the offices of the Data Commissioner and let the law take it from there.

I've zero to gain from this exercise, apart from knowing they've more to lose that the place money they are denying me.

Thanks.

Yes.
Although I had not bet with the bookmaker for about eight years I called to their head office in south Dublin and asked.
There are two data acts. You should look this up.
I think one is the Freedom Of Information Act and refers to government bodies and the other is the Data Protection Act and is for everyone else.
I had written a letter, printed it out, signed it, and handed it in.

My memory is a bit hazy on the details, but I think I didn't hear from them.
I think I had said in the letter "Freedom Of Information" and that is probably why they did not respond.
Realising my error I printed a second letter, called to their head office in south Dublin (about two miles from me) and handed it in.
I had to give them a cheque for about a fiver.

This might be of interest.
Although I handed the letter in at reception I was told to wait and someone from customer relations (?) would see me.
What followed was a bit weird.
Two people talked to me for about fifteen minutes, presumably to find out why I was interested, or if I represented some campaign.
This happened on each of my visits.
There have been a few high profile cases of people losing large amounts to them and they might have been concerned, and trying to find out if I had a connection to that.

When I received the information it was in my opinion short of detail.
There was just a summary.
No comment about my profession, employment, interests, sports I bet on .... nil.
I had made a profit so thought that might warrant a comment. No.
I was more interested in comments they might have about me, but there was nothing.

A few years previously I had got a download from them of all my transactions in detail so I knew what my profit / loss was.
Since the detailed lists of a few years earlier I had a few minor bets, almost nothing.
They has left off from the "up to date" data a few cheques they had sent me totalling about €9,500.
I sent them the dates and amounts of the cheques.
But other actions by them were more interesting, and shows that a plain Data Protection request has consequences.

They sent me the Data Protection information in an e-mail.
When I opened their e-mail I noticed my PC flashed a bit but I thought nothing of it.
My main concern at first was the errors in their information, the missing €9,500.


I had heard of the bookmaker snooping software iesnare so some time later I checked my PC for it.
There was a copy of iesnare buried deep in the directories of my PC.
The date of the iesnare directories on my PC was the date I opened the e-mail from the bookmaker with the Data Protection data they sent me.

That was bad enough.
On the Betfair forum (this was before Betfair was sold) there was a discussion in the forum about iesnare.
I should point out that a bookmaker will tell you that iesnare is used to prevent money laundering. Believe that if you like. I don't.
iesnare can gather details of all the websites you visit.

On the Betfair forum discussion a poster called O********* tried to belittle me saying I was wasting the time of the "girls" in reception in the bookmaker, and a few other negative comments.
I pointed out that my only interaction in reception was to wait in line and then hand in a letter.
I also asked him how did he know that there were female receptionists in that bookmaker's head office in Dublin, and that there was more than one.
I had not mentioned anything like that in my Betfair posts.
And I told him I would never use the term "girls" for adults.
Other posters laughed and told O********* that he was busted, his cover was blown.
Obviously he worked for that bookmaker and was familiar with their head office.
He tried to pass this off saying he guessed.

My thoughts on this are
(1) they will give you the information they want, and imo not all the information ("we don't keep that")
(2) They target you when you use an electronic device (mobile phone, tablet, PC).

Copper_pipe

Ive used that Resolver before and got my dispute settled fairly quickly. Would recommend

Gavin "shels"

Just with IBAS you could be waiting months for a response from them - I logged a complaint months ago and received a letter late last month (not in my favour I may add).

Gautama

Thanks for all the replies, I’ve a few options now, thanks.

robbiezero

ancuncha wrote: »

If you have trouble with them, just wait untill 25th of May the new GDPR laws come into effect
the short story is they legally have to give you your data under EU law, in a readble format, within 30 days and (if you want, likely not in this case) force them to delete any and all data they have in relation to you

more here http://gdprandyou.ie/

how will they be able to prevent restricted users from signing up again after they request deletion of all data?

bohsman

robbiezero wrote: »

ancuncha wrote: »

If you have trouble with them, just wait untill 25th of May the new GDPR laws come into effect
the short story is they legally have to give you your data under EU law, in a readble format, within 30 days and (if you want, likely not in this case) force them to delete any and all data they have in relation to you

more here http://gdprandyou.ie/

how will they be able to prevent restricted users from signing up again after they request deletion of all data?

There is plenty of data that they will have to keep. Right now they have to keep all docs, financial information for up to 10 years so not sure how that is all going to interact with the new regulations. Same with responsible gaming, there's no way the new regulations will allow problem gamblers be forgotten so they can sign up again.

bohsman

diomed wrote: »

I had heard of the bookmaker snooping software iesnare so some time later I checked my PC for it.
There was a copy of iesnare buried deep in the directories of my PC.
The date of the iesnare directories on my PC was the date I opened the e-mail from the bookmaker with the Data Protection data they sent me.

That was bad enough.
On the Betfair forum (this was before Betfair was sold) there was a discussion in the forum about iesnare.
I should point out that a bookmaker will tell you that iesnare is used to prevent money laundering.  Believe that if you like.  I don't.
iesnare can gather details of all the websites you visit.

https://www.iovation.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0cObuLWz2gIVyrvtCh10SwsXEAAYASAAEgK9SfD_BwE
All you need to know about iesnare there.

diomed

bohsman wrote: »

https://www.iovation.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0cObuLWz2gIVyrvtCh10SwsXEAAYASAAEgK9SfD_BwE
All you need to know about iesnare there.

Do you work in the gambling industry?

STB.

@diomed.

iesnare was previously prevented from running using noscript in firefox. However they now run it on their servers so you'll only see it by packet sniffing.

They are not interested in your private data. They are interested in your MAC address especially if you are using multiple accounts ! Its not about money laundering. It is about self preservation, limiting customers and maxismising profits.

diomed

A few years ago if you visited the iovation website it was all about targeting customers, identifying opportunities.
Perhaps following negative comment from Neil Channing and others the website now has a bland appearance with comments about "fighting fraud" and "customer experience".

Why did the software not identify fraud when one customer lost €1.75 million to an Irish bookmaker. The customer was an employee of An Post.
There are many cases like this. An employee of Finglas Credit Union was jailed for stealing €1.7 million to feed his gambling addiction.

That is what the software does. It helps manage these customers.

diomed

STB. wrote: »

It is about self preservation, limiting customers and maxismising profits.

They do not limit losing customers. They actively encourage them to bet with them until they have taken everything they have or can access.

BumperD

Every single bookmaker has problem gamblers on their books.They harass them with messages, free bets etc etc to keep them coming back. They feed off them without missing a wink of sleep. They couldn’t give a flying fxck about problem gamblers as those two court cases above point of which are just the tip of the iceberg.

Gregk961

BumperD wrote: »

Every single bookmaker has problem gamblers on their books.They harass them with messages, free bets etc etc to keep them coming back. They feed off them without missing a wink of sleep. They couldn’t give a flying fxck about problem gamblers as those two court cases above point of which are just the tip of the iceberg.

A problem gambler with access to large amounts of cash is a bookies wet dream in fairness. I'd love to know what % of the larger firms turnover comes from embezzled funds. Add in drug dealers throwing hundreds on every race and I'd say we're talking a large chunk of the pie.

It baffles me that bookmakers still get away with turning a blind eye to obvious theft by their customers. How on earth is their no auditing system in place.

STB.

diomed wrote: »

They do not limit losing customers. They actively encourage them to bet with them until they have taken everything they have or can access.

I was talking about limiting winning customers.

They'll use every trick in the book to try and prove you had multiple accounts as a barrier to payout.

bohsman

diomed wrote: »

bohsman wrote: »

https://www.iovation.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0cObuLWz2gIVyrvtCh10SwsXEAAYASAAEgK9SfD_BwE
All you need to know about iesnare there.

Do you work in the gambling industry?

I do.