Right of way

pat73

There is this avenue four farmers use to access their land i being one of them.One lives in half way in the avenue the other three of us just have land in there.There is always issues with the farmer living in there as he is always fighting with the three of us about we putting gravel on the avenue.They are contractors with big machinery and have a milk lorry going back there as well.The three of us use our land for silage with cattle on the land from sep to november .He was in court last year with one neighbour fighting over a pier and has recently been cautioned for assault against another.He has his own avenue beside the main avenue for bringing his cows out to go accross the road.Now he is going to carry them out the main avenue and use his cow avenue which he has recently upgraded now for his cars tractors ect.My question is can he do this

Donnielighto

Why wouldn't he. He has the use of the main one and the other one is his anyway. Or did I misunderstand.

pat73

As we know cow avenues are full of cow dung and with the other three driving in with cars it wouldnt be plesent.He was using his own avenue for the cows for over 40 years so i was wondering can he just change over like this.We dont want this to escalate as it often does with right of ways and as i said before this man takes the law into his own hands.Do u need permission of all 4 using the avenue to do this or is it every man for him self

ganmo

pat73 wrote: »

As we know cow avenues are full of cow dung and with the other three driving in with cars it wouldnt be plesent.He was using his own avenue for the cows for over 40 years so i was wondering can he just change over like this.We dont want this to escalate as it often does with right of ways and as i said before this man takes the law into his own hands.Do u need permission of all 4 using the avenue to do this or is it every man for him self

Is the difficult guy the only one living on the lane?

Aravo

Is this a private road/lane and not a public road in charge of a local council.

fepper

pat73 wrote: »

As we know cow avenues are full of cow dung and with the other three driving in with cars it wouldnt be plesent.He was using his own avenue for the cows for over 40 years so i was wondering can he just change over like this.We dont want this to escalate as it often does with right of ways and as i said before this man takes the law into his own hands.Do u need permission of all 4 using the avenue to do this or is it every man for him self

Does the person that lives up the right of way actually own the land that makes up the R.O.W,if they do,they can do what they like with the road without consulting ye if it doesn't affect ye'r access

pat73

He is the only one living in there along with his family.Up to september the 3 of us have silage up there so other than carring up slurry and fertilizer and cutting it we dont really go up there other than going in to see is everthing ok.It is a private lane so that counts out the council.It should be tarred and chiped by right as when the pot holes are filled in it is as bad again in a month.

Bass Reeves

Who own's the right of way or has it multiple owners. The owner is responsible for maintenance of the ROW. However if he puts cows onto it whether he own's it or not he is responsible for keeping it clean. If it is wide and has wides verges in general the cows will walk on the verges. This will draw the mud from the sides and he again could be responsible.

Say my name

What do you mean by he was having issues about "we putting gravel on the avenue"?

pat73

fepper wrote: »

Does the person that lives up the right of way actually own the land that makes up the R.O.W,if they do,they can do what they like with the road without consulting ye if it doesn't affect ye'r access

It was land commision land back in the sixties and was divided between 4 farmers.He is at one side of the avenue and another farmer is at the other side and then my land is after theirs and then at the end of the lane is the fourth farmer

pat73

Say my name wrote: »

What do you mean by he was having issues about "we putting gravel on the avenue"?

I should have said he was having issues with us not putting more gravel on the avenue

ganmo

pat73 wrote: »

It was land commision land back in the sixties and was divided between 4 farmers.He is at one side of the avenue and another farmer is at the other side and then my land is after theirs and then at the end of the lane is the fourth farmer

The farmer opposite him could own half the lane.

Go into landdirect.ie (login as a guest) and see where the boundaries are on it. It’s not definite but it’ll help

fepper

pat73 wrote: »

It was land commision land back in the sixties and was divided between 4 farmers.He is at one side of the avenue and another farmer is at the other side and then my land is after theirs and then at the end of the lane is the fourth farmer

Its not really a right of way issue but a shared roadway owned by the four of ye,thats awkward alright

pat73

fepper wrote: »

Its not really a right of way issue but a shared roadway owned by the four of ye,thats awkward alright

If any of the 3 of us decided to apply for planning permission for a house for our kids back that lane it dont seem right that we would have to access it through a cow avenue.From the road to the end of the lane is prob 1.5 km his house is half way

patsy_mccabe

I share a right of way along a road for half a mile with 9 different people. Never an issue.

pat73

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I share a right of way along a road for half a mile with 9 different people. Never an issue.

Lucky you,this man is fighting with the 3 of us in the lane way and 3 more who bounds him in other parcels of land he has.He was in court over a pier last year with one of them which is going to the high court and he was verbally abusing anothr one on the road last year and a person going home from work couldnt get past.Also i mentioned earlier he also got an adult caution for assault lately, Im hoping no one gets shot ,its me im worried about as i dont have a gun .

Bass Reeves

Land Comission ROW's are either council roads or jointly owned in general. You will have to check on landdirect.ie. If it is jointly owned you are all responsible for its upkeep. Cost have to be shared no matter who uses it the most. If it is a public road the council have to maintain it.

freedominacup

pat73 wrote: »

.He was in court over a pier last year with one of them which is going to the high court.

Must be some pier to say a €30k max payout in a circuit court won't cover it. More to it than a pier if it's going to the high court.

lab man

freedominacup wrote:

Must be some pier to say a €30k max payout in a circuit court won't cover it. More to it than a pier if it's going to the high court.

2 farmers years ago had a row about a row here in clare went to the high Court its beleived that both lost their farms over it barristers cost alot

pat73

pat73 wrote: »

If any of the 3 of us decided to apply for planning permission for a house for our kids back that lane it dont seem right that we would have to access it through a cow avenue.From the road to the end of the lane is prob 1.5 km his house is half way

The Irish word for road bóthar is derived from cow bó track.
I don't think you will have much luck trying to restrict him from using a lane he presumably has as much right to use as you to move animals.
Edit: Does he object to the gravel being put down because stone chips might injure a cow's foot or something? If so your other option is to pay to upgrade and pave the road yourself.

pat73

freedominacup wrote: »

Must be some pier to say a €30k max payout in a circuit court won't cover it. More to it than a pier if it's going to the high court.

The pier is at the start of the lane way at the road.He claims it is too far out in the lane way stopping his milk lorry getting in .The lorry never failed to get in .He owns the land across the road right in front of the lane way but wont take the ditch back a couple of feet so the lorry would have a better swing to get in.There is no asking anyone nice with him its roaring and shouting and raising his hands,its his way or court.

pat73

Deleted User wrote: »

The Irish word for road bóthar is derived from cow bó track.
I don't think you will have much luck trying to restrict him from using a lane he presumably has as much right to use as you to move animals.
Edit: Does he object to the gravel being put down because stone chips might injure a cow's foot or something? If so your other option is to pay to upgrade and pave the road yourself.

Nearly all his grazing ground is across the road so the cows would be going out the lane for prob 7 monts of the year.Thats the issue we have.He has told us the type of gravel he wants us to put down and when to put it down.

ganmo

pat73 wrote: »

The pier is at the start of the lane way at the road.He claims it is too far out in the lane way stopping his milk lorry getting in .The lorry never failed to get in .He owns the land across the road right in front of the lane way but wont take the ditch back a couple of feet so the lorry would have a better swing to get in.There is no asking anyone nice with him its roaring and shouting and raising his hands,its his way or court.

Find a nearby mediation service and have a talk with them. They are very good at helping diffuse and help sort out situations like yours

fepper

Could the existing laneway be made wider and part of it fenced off for his cows only,needn't be overly wide for cows walking along it,they would be cost involved though

pat73

ganmo wrote: »

Find a nearby mediation service and have a talk with them. They are very good at helping diffuse and help sort out situations like yours

Other neighbours have tried,he jumps up and down demanding his way.He has a son who is on the farm with him who is a lovely quiet lad and he will be there when his old man is gone so thinking ahead going further with this only leads to hassel with the son in years to come.blood is thicker than water as they say.

pat73

fepper wrote: »

Could the existing laneway be made wider and part of it fenced off for his cows only,needn't be overly wide for cows walking along it,they would be cost involved though

He has his own avenue for the cows running inside the fence of the laneway.He has been walking them out this way for 40 years.

John_Rambo

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I share a right of way along a road for half a mile with 9 different people. Never an issue.

So that's 10 nice people. Seems like there's one not so nice person involved in the OP's situation. It only takes one to screw up a nice symbiotic relationship.

pat73

Following on from issues with our awkward neighbour i have a drain starting in my land that goes through his and then through 3 other neighbours before it enters the river.I up graded my drains at my side last year as that corner of my field that bounds him was getting wet.I was just up there today and i see water at my side after the rain.I gave a quick look at his side and he has the drain blocked at his side so my water cant get through.Im thinking he cant do that but the law can be tricky with things like that.That drain was there in my fathers time so its not a new drain.He also was blaming me for years that his field at his side of the ditch was getting wet because of my field and when i fix the problem he blocks the drain.Has any one been in this position before and how did they solve it.

Base price

pat73 wrote: »

Following on from issues with our awkward neighbour i have a drain starting in my land that goes through his and then through 3 other neighbours before it enters the river.I up graded my drains at my side last year as that corner of my field that bounds him was getting wet.I was just up there today and i see water at my side after the rain.I gave a quick look at his side and he has the drain blocked at his side so my water cant get through.Im thinking he cant do that but the law can be tricky with things like that.That drain was there in my fathers time so its not a new drain.Has any one been in this position before and how did they solve it.

A neighbour got substantial work done on a large open drain on his land. Before the work commenced he spoke to the 2 neighbours downstream from his land. They all got onboard and their drains were cleaned at the same time by the contractor, that way none of their land would be flooded iykwim.
Here is a link to an article about the law and drainage - https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/analysis/karen-walshlaw-of-the-land-water-goes-downhill-338842.html

patsy_mccabe

Don't know the law exactly, but you can't hold back water.

Bass Reeves

I weas looking at a farm once years ago. It was quite heavy wet land but with drains around fields. I was telling the FIL about it and he asked ''was there an exit for water''. I replied there was and he said ''flood the next f@@ker and he will then clean his drains'' which in turns forces others down the water cources to clean there drains.

Base price

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I weas looking at a farm once years ago. It was quite heavy wet land but with drains around fields. I was telling the FIL about it and he asked ''was there an exit for water''. I replied there was and he said ''flood the next f@@ker and he will then clean his drains'' which in turns forces others down the water cources to clean there drains.

He sounds like a bollox of a neighbour.

Bass Reeves

Base price wrote: »

He sounds like a bollox of a neighbour.

Who the FIL I never bought that land. The issue with heavy land is that if everybody cleans there drains ever 6-10 years drains may not be an issue. A 12" drop over half a mile of drains allows a lit of water to escape. Too many lads will never clean drains. In actual fact the lad behind you can often be as much of an issue as the lad you are draining into. Water cleans its own way early in the year. A lad with drains cleaned behind you will often keep your drains flowing especially in spring

buffalobilly

i think it should be a condition in agri payment
that all land owners should keep water moving