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Population growth 2040

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  • 03-04-2018 9:06pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15


    Hi,

    Is anyone worried about how Ireland will handle the population growth - expected to increase by 1 million in d next 20 years (2040).

    I think Ireland 2040 has been put through without any real discussion


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Powerd1991 wrote: »
    Hi,

    Is anyone worried about how Ireland will handle the population growth - expected to increase by 1 million in d next 20 years (2040).

    I think Ireland 2040 has been put through without any real discussion

    http://npf.ie/

    Here is the website.

    Here is one of the pages about the consultation meetings:

    http://npf.ie/our-place-our-story/


    664 submissions received:

    http://npf.ie/submissions-predraft/


    Now, if you spend your time reading tabloids and watching satellite television, you would have missed all this, but anyone paying attention would have seen the opportunities to contribute to the consultation process.

    Of course, it would only have appealed to those who wish to contribute positively to the process. So there are submissions from the likes of Thomas Byrne TD, Green Party branches, Social Democrats and the Labour Party, but, and correct me if I am wrong, I don't see anything from the likes of Ruth Coppinger, Paul Murphy, Mick Wallace or Sinn Fein, but then, they never have anything positive to contribute to this country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Powerd1991 wrote: »
    Hi,

    Is anyone worried about how Ireland will handle the population growth - expected to increase by 1 million in d next 20 years (2040).

    I think Ireland 2040 has been put through without any real discussion

    Ireland 2040 is the plan to handle that population growth. Of course, like pretty much every other national development plan it will likely be thrown onto a shelf and never heard of ever again. There is no votes in planning more then 5 years ahead.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 Powerd1991


    blanch152 wrote: »
    http://npf.ie/

    Here is the website.

    Here is one of the pages about the consultation meetings:

    http://npf.ie/our-place-our-story/


    664 submissions received:

    http://npf.ie/submissions-predraft/


    Now, if you spend your time reading tabloids and watching satellite television, you would have missed all this, but anyone paying attention would have seen the opportunities to contribute to the consultation process.

    Of course, it would only have appealed to those who wish to contribute positively to the process. So there are submissions from the likes of Thomas Byrne TD, Green Party branches, Social Democrats and the Labour Party, but, and correct me if I am wrong, I don't see anything from the likes of Ruth Coppinger, Paul Murphy, Mick Wallace or Sinn Fein, but then, they never have anything positive to contribute to this country.

    Thanks for the post.

    I just think it deserves a public debate on Prime Time etc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 Powerd1991


    Sand wrote: »
    Ireland 2040 is the plan to handle that population growth. Of course, like pretty much every other national development plan it will likely be thrown onto a shelf and never heard of ever again. There is no votes in planning more then 5 years ahead.

    Thanks for the post.

    I never knew that. So within 5 years we can vote to change the national development plan? I think we need to reconsider our ability to increase our population if we as you say throw everything on a shelf


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Powerd1991 wrote: »
    Thanks for the post.

    I never knew that. So within 5 years we can vote to change the national development plan? I think we need to reconsider our ability to increase our population if we as you say throw everything on a shelf

    I don't understand what you mean by "our ability to increase our population"? The population increasing by a million isn't a choice of the development plan, it's our natural population increase projected out over the next 22 years (our population grows on average ~50k per year these days). Majority of that is as simple as more births than deaths.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 Powerd1991


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    I don't understand what you mean by "our ability to increase our population"? The population increasing by a million isn't a choice of the development plan, it's our natural population increase projected out over the next 22 years (our population grows on average ~50k per year these days). Majority of that is as simple as more births than deaths.

    Ok maybe it is I think I assumed it was a lot for that amount of time


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Bubbaclaus wrote:
    I don't understand what you mean by "our ability to increase our population"? The population increasing by a million isn't a choice of the development plan, it's our natural population increase projected out over the next 22 years (our population grows on average ~50k per year these days). Majority of that is as simple as more births than deaths.


    Maybe we should rethink all this growth stuff, maybe it's not so good for our societies and our planet


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 Powerd1991


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Maybe we should rethink all this growth stuff, maybe it's not so good for our societies and our planet

    What do u think is the best thing?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭thebull85


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    I don't understand what you mean by "our ability to increase our population"? The population increasing by a million isn't a choice of the development plan, it's our natural population increase projected out over the next 22 years (our population grows on average ~50k per year these days). Majority of that is as simple as more births than deaths.

    No its not our natural population increase. If the rate of babys born and people dying continues at the rate it is now our population will increase by roughly 440,000 by 2040, i dont know where the other 500,000 people are coming from....


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,855 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Did we not have a population of about 7 million plus at one point.

    Then they all either died through famine or emigration


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 Powerd1991


    listermint wrote: »
    Did we not have a population of about 7 million plus at one point.

    Then they all either died through famine or emigration

    Yes that was over 100 years ago. It has been steady enough since then ( between 3 - 4 million )


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    The powerful in most countries don't really care about such things until it effects the bottom line of their party investors. It makes great PR to throw out a 'we're concerned' speech or report every now and then, but chances are we'll wait until we've no option.

    The housing crisis was foretold before the last economic crash, but no political party, bar a few in Labour, (who were scoffed at) gave it any thought.
    Irish politics is about making hay while the sun shines and blaming everybody else when it sets, like the sun going down was a shock.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    thebull85 wrote: »
    No its not our natural population increase. If the rate of babys born and people dying continues at the rate it is now our population will increase by roughly 440,000 by 2040, i dont know where the other 500,000 people are coming from....

    Where did you get 440k figure from?

    33k a year is our current natural increase, which works out as over 700k


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,910 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Powerd1991 wrote: »
    Thanks for the post.

    I just think it deserves a public debate on Prime Time etc

    Well first of all the population growth is not something thats planned or intended by the government as you seemed to suggest in your original post, its projected and 2040 is the plan to deal with it.

    Secondly such a conversation will never happen since as other posters have pointed out no politician in opposition sees votes in it and the real problems it will bring up like the ticking pension timebomb no politician wants to touch as the militant grey vote won't even allow it to be discussed rationally which seriously needs to happen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Well first of all the population growth is not something thats planned or intended by the government as you seemed to suggest in your original post, its projected and 2040 is the plan to deal with it.

    Secondly such a conversation will never happen since as other posters have pointed out no politician in opposition sees votes in it and the real problems it will bring up like the ticking pension timebomb no politician wants to touch as the militant grey vote won't even allow it to be discussed rationally which seriously needs to happen.

    So unlike other issues where the Paul Murphy's of the world have the governments hands tied (:rolleyes:) the right and just have free reign to act on this? Or does the 'no votes in it' spill over to the 'proper' political parties too?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 320 ✭✭VonZan


    Obviously it's hugely concerning considering we are at breaking point with many services in the country and only now are we getting some form of a framework to deal with the issues. The document doesn't deal with these issues and if infrastructure isn't developed quickly, by our stabdards, (starting in the next decade) then the government can forget about trying to win any political points when they can't deal with the issues that have been hampering Irish development for decades. It's clear that government policy of basing your economy on a low CT environment isn't capable of dealing with modern issues nevermind future problems.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,989 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    The country definitely needs to invest in it's infrastructure, and in particular accommodation and public transport services

    However it's one of the most sparsely populated countries in Europe, probably the World. There is massive scope to grow the population, and that to me is a very good thing. It should contribute to economic growth, which in turn will increase wealth and provide additional resources to deal with some of those infrastructure issues, together with some of the shortfalls we've seen in public services such as the HSE and education (through additional taxation receipts)


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,749 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Beasty wrote: »
    The country definitely needs to invest in it's infrastructure, and in particular accommodation and public transport services

    However it's one of the most sparsely populated countries in Europe, probably the World. There is massive scope to grow the population, and that to me is a very good thing. It should contribute to economic growth, which in turn will increase wealth and provide additional resources to deal with some of those infrastructure issues, together with some of the shortfalls we've seen in public services such as the HSE and education (through additional taxation receipts)

    Ireland is the only, to date, country to welcome all residents of the EU27 without restriction, we are a welcoming country who have to date happily absorbed all who have arrived. Arrivals who have integrated into what we have, contribute to society, and hold a common faith in Ireland, and it's future.

    Unlike many countries we do not have a ticking old age time bomb, as Beasty correctly states we have a relatively low population density, this population is yet to return to pre-famine levels.

    We should be proud of what we have, our economy, our educated workforce, our economic growth, and continue to work on improving our infrastructure, when I arrived in the country it took 5 hours to get to limerick, or any major city from Dublin by car on a good day, and that was less than 20 years ago.

    Immigration is not something to be afraid of for us, neither is organic population growth. Lets just concentrate on what we are doing right in this country, and continue to do so, and improve where we can do better.

    We can leave the xenophobia and racism to our near neighbours from the East!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,152 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Ireland is the only, to date, country to welcome all residents of the EU27 without restriction, we are a welcoming country who have to date happily absorbed all who have arrived. Arrivals who have integrated into what we have, contribute to society, and hold a common faith in Ireland, and it's future.

    Incorrect. The UK and Sweden both declined to place any restrictions on EU immigration.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭Irish Stones


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Ireland is the only, to date, country to welcome all residents of the EU27 without restriction, we are a welcoming country who have to date happily absorbed all who have arrived.
    I didn't know there were restrictions on EU people moving from one country to another.
    We, too, in Italy have people from all over EU, mainly Romanians. We have 8% of population from abroad. Never heard of a restriction.
    After all we're accepting people from Africa and Middle East as well, 170,000 each year!


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,152 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I didn't know there were restrictions on EU people moving from one country to another.
    We, too, in Italy have people from all over EU, mainly Romanians. We have 8% of population from abroad. Never heard of a restriction.
    After all we're accepting people from Africa and Middle East as well, 170,000 each year!

    When the Eastern states first acceded, there were restrictions then current members could impose for a number of years.

    Non-EU immigration is completely down to the government though.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭Chris_Heilong


    I didn't know there were restrictions on EU people moving from one country to another.
    We, too, in Italy have people from all over EU, mainly Romanians. We have 8% of population from abroad. Never heard of a restriction.
    After all we're accepting people from Africa and Middle East as well, 170,000 each year!

    Official statistics from the United Nations from June 2016 reveal almost one in six (15.8 per cent) of people now officially living in Ireland was born overseas.

    That is a scary high number, even if we stopped all immigration tomorrow that would already be a high level of diversity already. I think figures of 17.5% are foreign born according to the CSO.

    https://evoke.ie/2016/09/27/extra/ireland-has-one-of-the-highest-percentage-of-foreign-nationals


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    That is a scary high number

    Only if you are some sort of xenophobe.

    In Luxembourg, the figure is 50%. more during working hours.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭Chris_Heilong


    Only if you are some sort of xenophobe.

    In Luxembourg, the figure is 50%. more during working hours.

    A xenophobe would be against all immigration, I am not. Most of my friends are not Irish and my wife was born abroad, what I want is proper control of immigration in order to preserve our native culture and way of life, like to how Japan does it.
    I view a country like a house, you invite people from the outside in because you have some extra rooms and a kind heart, these people can help around the house so you dont mind them but then more of their friends start staying over and before you know it the house is no longer yours. I think any logically thinking person would be concerned unless you are one of those Globalist nuts who does not believe in countries or culture and wants a no borders world.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 915 ✭✭✭2 Scoops


    Inquitus wrote: »

    Immigration is not something to be afraid of for us, neither is organic population growth. Lets just concentrate on what we are doing right in this country, and continue to do so, and improve where we can do better.

    We can leave the xenophobia and racism to our near neighbours from the East!


    I have no qualms about immigration once it's handled properly and those coming here integrate and become an asset to society. There's a recent case 120 African migrants were placed in Lisdoonvarna which has a population of 300...

    As for the rest of Europe and it's immigration problems, I think time will be very kind to the likes of Hungary and Poland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    2 Scoops wrote: »
    I have no qualms about immigration once it's handled properly and those coming here integrate and become an asset to society. There's a recent case 120 African migrants were placed in Lisdoonvarna which has a population of 300...

    As for the rest of Europe and it's immigration problems, I think time will be very kind to the likes of Hungary and Poland.

    Lisdoonvarna has a bigger population than 300. What a weird thing to be dishonest about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 915 ✭✭✭2 Scoops


    Lisdoonvarna has a bigger population than 300. What a weird thing to be dishonest about.

    You could have googled it ya know, maybe if you spent less time stalking me on boards your facts would be more solid

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/lisdoonvarna-votes-93-against-asylum-seekers-467817.html

    "Mr Dunne said that the 115 asylum seekers would increase the 300-strong population of Lisdoonvarna by 38%"


  • Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    2 Scoops wrote: »
    You could have googled it ya know, maybe if you spent less time stalking me on boards your facts would be more solid

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/lisdoonvarna-votes-93-against-asylum-seekers-467817.html

    "Mr Dunne said that the 115 asylum seekers would increase the 300-strong population of Lisdoonvarna by 38%"

    Weird, googling Lisdoonvarna gives a population of 739, as does the CSO's figure from the 2011 census. Latest census said 829.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,152 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Mod: Can we stay on topic please. If anyone wants to start a new thread on immigration, please feel free to do so. This thread is about population growth as a whole and the 2040 plan.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    2 Scoops wrote: »
    You could have googled it ya know, maybe if you spent less time stalking me on boards your facts would be more solid

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/lisdoonvarna-votes-93-against-asylum-seekers-467817.html

    "Mr Dunne said that the 115 asylum seekers would increase the 300-strong population of Lisdoonvarna by 38%"

    Census tells a different story.

    edit: Just saw mode note.


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