Population growth 2040

Powerd1991

Hi,

Is anyone worried about how Ireland will handle the population growth - expected to increase by 1 million in d next 20 years (2040).

I think Ireland 2040 has been put through without any real discussion

blanch152

Powerd1991 wrote: »

Hi,

Is anyone worried about how Ireland will handle the population growth - expected to increase by 1 million in d next 20 years (2040).

I think Ireland 2040 has been put through without any real discussion

http://npf.ie/

Here is the website.

Here is one of the pages about the consultation meetings:

http://npf.ie/our-place-our-story/


664 submissions received:

http://npf.ie/submissions-predraft/


Now, if you spend your time reading tabloids and watching satellite television, you would have missed all this, but anyone paying attention would have seen the opportunities to contribute to the consultation process.

Of course, it would only have appealed to those who wish to contribute positively to the process. So there are submissions from the likes of Thomas Byrne TD, Green Party branches, Social Democrats and the Labour Party, but, and correct me if I am wrong, I don't see anything from the likes of Ruth Coppinger, Paul Murphy, Mick Wallace or Sinn Fein, but then, they never have anything positive to contribute to this country.

Sand

Powerd1991 wrote: »

Hi,

Is anyone worried about how Ireland will handle the population growth - expected to increase by 1 million in d next 20 years (2040).

I think Ireland 2040 has been put through without any real discussion

Ireland 2040 is the plan to handle that population growth. Of course, like pretty much every other national development plan it will likely be thrown onto a shelf and never heard of ever again. There is no votes in planning more then 5 years ahead.

Powerd1991

blanch152 wrote: »

http://npf.ie/

Here is the website.

Here is one of the pages about the consultation meetings:

http://npf.ie/our-place-our-story/


664 submissions received:

http://npf.ie/submissions-predraft/


Now, if you spend your time reading tabloids and watching satellite television, you would have missed all this, but anyone paying attention would have seen the opportunities to contribute to the consultation process.

Of course, it would only have appealed to those who wish to contribute positively to the process. So there are submissions from the likes of Thomas Byrne TD, Green Party branches, Social Democrats and the Labour Party, but, and correct me if I am wrong, I don't see anything from the likes of Ruth Coppinger, Paul Murphy, Mick Wallace or Sinn Fein, but then, they never have anything positive to contribute to this country.

Thanks for the post.

I just think it deserves a public debate on Prime Time etc

Powerd1991

Sand wrote: »

Ireland 2040 is the plan to handle that population growth. Of course, like pretty much every other national development plan it will likely be thrown onto a shelf and never heard of ever again. There is no votes in planning more then 5 years ahead.

Thanks for the post.

I never knew that. So within 5 years we can vote to change the national development plan? I think we need to reconsider our ability to increase our population if we as you say throw everything on a shelf

Bubbaclaus

Powerd1991 wrote: »

Thanks for the post.

I never knew that. So within 5 years we can vote to change the national development plan? I think we need to reconsider our ability to increase our population if we as you say throw everything on a shelf

I don't understand what you mean by "our ability to increase our population"? The population increasing by a million isn't a choice of the development plan, it's our natural population increase projected out over the next 22 years (our population grows on average ~50k per year these days). Majority of that is as simple as more births than deaths.

Powerd1991

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I don't understand what you mean by "our ability to increase our population"? The population increasing by a million isn't a choice of the development plan, it's our natural population increase projected out over the next 22 years (our population grows on average ~50k per year these days). Majority of that is as simple as more births than deaths.

Ok maybe it is I think I assumed it was a lot for that amount of time

Wanderer78

Bubbaclaus wrote:

I don't understand what you mean by "our ability to increase our population"? The population increasing by a million isn't a choice of the development plan, it's our natural population increase projected out over the next 22 years (our population grows on average ~50k per year these days). Majority of that is as simple as more births than deaths.

Maybe we should rethink all this growth stuff, maybe it's not so good for our societies and our planet

Powerd1991

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Maybe we should rethink all this growth stuff, maybe it's not so good for our societies and our planet

What do u think is the best thing?

thebull85

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I don't understand what you mean by "our ability to increase our population"? The population increasing by a million isn't a choice of the development plan, it's our natural population increase projected out over the next 22 years (our population grows on average ~50k per year these days). Majority of that is as simple as more births than deaths.

No its not our natural population increase. If the rate of babys born and people dying continues at the rate it is now our population will increase by roughly 440,000 by 2040, i dont know where the other 500,000 people are coming from....

listermint

Did we not have a population of about 7 million plus at one point.

Then they all either died through famine or emigration

Powerd1991

listermint wrote: »

Did we not have a population of about 7 million plus at one point.

Then they all either died through famine or emigration

Yes that was over 100 years ago. It has been steady enough since then ( between 3 - 4 million )

James Brown

The powerful in most countries don't really care about such things until it effects the bottom line of their party investors. It makes great PR to throw out a 'we're concerned' speech or report every now and then, but chances are we'll wait until we've no option.

The housing crisis was foretold before the last economic crash, but no political party, bar a few in Labour, (who were scoffed at) gave it any thought.
Irish politics is about making hay while the sun shines and blaming everybody else when it sets, like the sun going down was a shock.

Bubbaclaus

thebull85 wrote: »

No its not our natural population increase. If the rate of babys born and people dying continues at the rate it is now our population will increase by roughly 440,000 by 2040, i dont know where the other 500,000 people are coming from....

Where did you get 440k figure from?

33k a year is our current natural increase, which works out as over 700k

VinLieger

Powerd1991 wrote: »

Thanks for the post.

I just think it deserves a public debate on Prime Time etc

Well first of all the population growth is not something thats planned or intended by the government as you seemed to suggest in your original post, its projected and 2040 is the plan to deal with it.

Secondly such a conversation will never happen since as other posters have pointed out no politician in opposition sees votes in it and the real problems it will bring up like the ticking pension timebomb no politician wants to touch as the militant grey vote won't even allow it to be discussed rationally which seriously needs to happen.

James Brown

VinLieger wrote: »

Well first of all the population growth is not something thats planned or intended by the government as you seemed to suggest in your original post, its projected and 2040 is the plan to deal with it.

Secondly such a conversation will never happen since as other posters have pointed out no politician in opposition sees votes in it and the real problems it will bring up like the ticking pension timebomb no politician wants to touch as the militant grey vote won't even allow it to be discussed rationally which seriously needs to happen.

So unlike other issues where the Paul Murphy's of the world have the governments hands tied (:rolleyes:) the right and just have free reign to act on this? Or does the 'no votes in it' spill over to the 'proper' political parties too?

VonZan

Obviously it's hugely concerning considering we are at breaking point with many services in the country and only now are we getting some form of a framework to deal with the issues. The document doesn't deal with these issues and if infrastructure isn't developed quickly, by our stabdards, (starting in the next decade) then the government can forget about trying to win any political points when they can't deal with the issues that have been hampering Irish development for decades. It's clear that government policy of basing your economy on a low CT environment isn't capable of dealing with modern issues nevermind future problems.

Beasty

The country definitely needs to invest in it's infrastructure, and in particular accommodation and public transport services

However it's one of the most sparsely populated countries in Europe, probably the World. There is massive scope to grow the population, and that to me is a very good thing. It should contribute to economic growth, which in turn will increase wealth and provide additional resources to deal with some of those infrastructure issues, together with some of the shortfalls we've seen in public services such as the HSE and education (through additional taxation receipts)

Inquitus

Beasty wrote: »

The country definitely needs to invest in it's infrastructure, and in particular accommodation and public transport services

However it's one of the most sparsely populated countries in Europe, probably the World. There is massive scope to grow the population, and that to me is a very good thing. It should contribute to economic growth, which in turn will increase wealth and provide additional resources to deal with some of those infrastructure issues, together with some of the shortfalls we've seen in public services such as the HSE and education (through additional taxation receipts)

Ireland is the only, to date, country to welcome all residents of the EU27 without restriction, we are a welcoming country who have to date happily absorbed all who have arrived. Arrivals who have integrated into what we have, contribute to society, and hold a common faith in Ireland, and it's future.

Unlike many countries we do not have a ticking old age time bomb, as Beasty correctly states we have a relatively low population density, this population is yet to return to pre-famine levels.

We should be proud of what we have, our economy, our educated workforce, our economic growth, and continue to work on improving our infrastructure, when I arrived in the country it took 5 hours to get to limerick, or any major city from Dublin by car on a good day, and that was less than 20 years ago.

Immigration is not something to be afraid of for us, neither is organic population growth. Lets just concentrate on what we are doing right in this country, and continue to do so, and improve where we can do better.

We can leave the xenophobia and racism to our near neighbours from the East!

ancapailldorcha

Inquitus wrote: »

Ireland is the only, to date, country to welcome all residents of the EU27 without restriction, we are a welcoming country who have to date happily absorbed all who have arrived. Arrivals who have integrated into what we have, contribute to society, and hold a common faith in Ireland, and it's future.

Incorrect. The UK and Sweden both declined to place any restrictions on EU immigration.

Irish Stones

Inquitus wrote: »

Ireland is the only, to date, country to welcome all residents of the EU27 without restriction, we are a welcoming country who have to date happily absorbed all who have arrived.

I didn't know there were restrictions on EU people moving from one country to another.
We, too, in Italy have people from all over EU, mainly Romanians. We have 8% of population from abroad. Never heard of a restriction.
After all we're accepting people from Africa and Middle East as well, 170,000 each year!

ancapailldorcha

Irish Stones wrote: »

I didn't know there were restrictions on EU people moving from one country to another.
We, too, in Italy have people from all over EU, mainly Romanians. We have 8% of population from abroad. Never heard of a restriction.
After all we're accepting people from Africa and Middle East as well, 170,000 each year!

When the Eastern states first acceded, there were restrictions then current members could impose for a number of years.

Non-EU immigration is completely down to the government though.

Chris_Heilong

Irish Stones wrote: »

I didn't know there were restrictions on EU people moving from one country to another.
We, too, in Italy have people from all over EU, mainly Romanians. We have 8% of population from abroad. Never heard of a restriction.
After all we're accepting people from Africa and Middle East as well, 170,000 each year!

Official statistics from the United Nations from June 2016 reveal almost one in six (15.8 per cent) of people now officially living in Ireland was born overseas.

That is a scary high number, even if we stopped all immigration tomorrow that would already be a high level of diversity already. I think figures of 17.5% are foreign born according to the CSO.

https://evoke.ie/2016/09/27/extra/ireland-has-one-of-the-highest-percentage-of-foreign-nationals

Zubeneschamali

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

That is a scary high number

Only if you are some sort of xenophobe.

In Luxembourg, the figure is 50%. more during working hours.

Chris_Heilong

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Only if you are some sort of xenophobe.

In Luxembourg, the figure is 50%. more during working hours.

A xenophobe would be against all immigration, I am not. Most of my friends are not Irish and my wife was born abroad, what I want is proper control of immigration in order to preserve our native culture and way of life, like to how Japan does it.
I view a country like a house, you invite people from the outside in because you have some extra rooms and a kind heart, these people can help around the house so you dont mind them but then more of their friends start staying over and before you know it the house is no longer yours. I think any logically thinking person would be concerned unless you are one of those Globalist nuts who does not believe in countries or culture and wants a no borders world.

2 Scoops

Inquitus wrote: »

Immigration is not something to be afraid of for us, neither is organic population growth. Lets just concentrate on what we are doing right in this country, and continue to do so, and improve where we can do better.

We can leave the xenophobia and racism to our near neighbours from the East!

I have no qualms about immigration once it's handled properly and those coming here integrate and become an asset to society. There's a recent case 120 African migrants were placed in Lisdoonvarna which has a population of 300...

As for the rest of Europe and it's immigration problems, I think time will be very kind to the likes of Hungary and Poland.

WinnyThePoo

2 Scoops wrote: »

I have no qualms about immigration once it's handled properly and those coming here integrate and become an asset to society. There's a recent case 120 African migrants were placed in Lisdoonvarna which has a population of 300...

As for the rest of Europe and it's immigration problems, I think time will be very kind to the likes of Hungary and Poland.

Lisdoonvarna has a bigger population than 300. What a weird thing to be dishonest about.

2 Scoops

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Lisdoonvarna has a bigger population than 300. What a weird thing to be dishonest about.

You could have googled it ya know, maybe if you spent less time stalking me on boards your facts would be more solid

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/lisdoonvarna-votes-93-against-asylum-seekers-467817.html

"Mr Dunne said that the 115 asylum seekers would increase the 300-strong population of Lisdoonvarna by 38%"

2 Scoops

2 Scoops wrote: »

You could have googled it ya know, maybe if you spent less time stalking me on boards your facts would be more solid

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/lisdoonvarna-votes-93-against-asylum-seekers-467817.html

"Mr Dunne said that the 115 asylum seekers would increase the 300-strong population of Lisdoonvarna by 38%"

Weird, googling Lisdoonvarna gives a population of 739, as does the CSO's figure from the 2011 census. Latest census said 829.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Can we stay on topic please. If anyone wants to start a new thread on immigration, please feel free to do so. This thread is about population growth as a whole and the 2040 plan.

WinnyThePoo

2 Scoops wrote: »

You could have googled it ya know, maybe if you spent less time stalking me on boards your facts would be more solid

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/lisdoonvarna-votes-93-against-asylum-seekers-467817.html

"Mr Dunne said that the 115 asylum seekers would increase the 300-strong population of Lisdoonvarna by 38%"

Census tells a different story.

edit: Just saw mode note.

2 Scoops

The times reports 300 too, probably talking about the village itself.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/lisdoonvarna-locals-reject-direct-provision-plan-1.3413201

Edit, just wanted to clarify where I got the figure from. Didn't see mod note.

snotboogie

Powerd1991 wrote: »

listermint wrote: »

Did we not have a population of about 7 million plus at one point.

Then they all either died through famine or emigration

Yes that was over 100 years ago. It has  been steady enough since then ( between 3 - 4 million )

It has not been steady since the famine, Ireland's population increased by 1.1 million between 1996 and 2016, from 3.6 to 4.7 million. Ireland's population was steady at about 3 million (+ or - 200k) between 1900 and 1970, it's been steadily increasing ever since. 1 million extra people by 2040 would represent a fairly significant slowdown of population growth for Ireland. Looking back 50 years it looks like a conservative estimate.

Inquitus

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Incorrect. The UK and Sweden both declined to place any restrictions on EU immigration.

Not true, Croatians cannot live and work unrestricted in the UK

https://www.gov.uk/croatian-national

https://ec.europa.eu/eures/main.jsp?acro=free&lang=en&countryId=UK&fromCountryId=HR&accessing=0&content=1&restrictions=1&step=2

VonZan

Beasty wrote: »

The country definitely needs to invest in it's infrastructure, and in particular accommodation and public transport services

However it's one of the most sparsely populated countries in Europe, probably the World. There is massive scope to grow the population, and that to me is a very good thing. It should contribute to economic growth, which in turn will increase wealth and provide additional resources to deal with some of those infrastructure issues, together with some of the shortfalls we've seen in public services such as the HSE and education (through additional taxation receipts)

Sure but unless you build infrastructure then then the growth in urban areas will just increase instead of planning for a new city or infrastructure to offer services to people. All our major cities (Dublin and Cork) have exceeded peak capacity of the services available. People aren't going to want to move to Mayo or Donegal. The growth on the commuter belt to Dublin will far exceed any growth in rural Ireland.

blanch152

VonZan wrote: »

Sure but unless you build infrastructure then then the growth in urban areas will just increase instead of planning for a new city or infrastructure to offer services to people. All our major cities (Dublin and Cork) have exceeded peak capacity of the services available. People aren't going to want to move to Mayo or Donegal. The growth on the commuter belt to Dublin will far exceed any growth in rural Ireland.

And that is what Ireland 2040 is trying to address - increase significantly the capacity of Cork, Limerick and Galway, while managing the growth of Dublin.

VonZan

blanch152 wrote: »

And that is what Ireland 2040 is trying to address - increase significantly the capacity of Cork, Limerick and Galway, while managing the growth of Dublin.

And as has been pointed out the plan doesn't address the issues at hand.

Bubbaclaus

Our population has increased 1.2 million in the last 22 years. They are projecting it to actually slow down to 1 million for the next 22 years. Yet people are still using the info to spread their agenda.

It would be funny if it wasn't so serious.

blanch152

VonZan wrote: »

And as has been pointed out the plan doesn't address the issues at hand.

The issue at hand is how to deal with an increased population - the plan clearly does that, so what am I missing?