Setts/cobbles/cobble lock terminology, SUDS, contractors

Lumen

I've just spent a couple of fairly futile hours attempting to feck my ~300sqm gravel driveway into some semblance of flatness with a rake, pickaxe and wacker. It's still not right, there's just too much mud and movement in it.

I was going to re-do the gravel but this is pointless as I have loads of overhanging greenery that acts like a mud factory. I'm not spending the rest of my life repeating this sisyphusean ordeal.

So I'm thinking of splashing out replacing the lot with granite setts, i.e. cobbles.

I think "setts" is the correct terminology, according to pavingexpert.com, but this term doesn't seem to get used much in Ireland, though there are a lot of references to "cobble lock".

So first question: what is "cobble lock" exactly, and how does it differ from setts? I'm guessing that setts are dressed stone, and cobble lock is cast concrete/clay. Is that the only difference? I assume formed blocks are cheaper to make and cheaper to lay due to uniform dimensions.

pavingexpert describes two approaches: flexible and rigid, the difference seems to be whether a (concrete?) base is laid.

Rigid Flexible

Both can apparently deal with heavy traffic, which I need as I get oil deliveries and building/garden materials delivered by massive trucks fairly frequently.

The flexible approach seems more permeable, although as parts of this are on a 10% slope I think runoff/through is going to end up against the front wall of the house at the bottom of the slope either way, so I'll need land drains.

But...I vaguely remember someone knowledgeable on here saying that there are now requirements for permeability (SUDS?). Does this require permeability in the construction, or does it just mean I need to deal with my own run-off, rather that putting into a public storm drain, because I don't have one of those anyway.

Thoughts and experiences welcome.

Like all residential construction this type of work seems fairly straightforward but prone to being severely compromised by cost-cutting.

If anyone has recommendations for an extremely competent contractor for this sort of work in Wicklow please PM me.

Shaunoc

Lumen wrote:

I was going to re-do the gravel but this is pointless as I have loads of overhanging greenery that acts like a mud factory. I'm not spending the rest of my life repeating this sisyphusean ordeal.

Lumen wrote:

I was going to re-do the gravel but this is pointless as I have loads of overhanging greenery that acts like a mud factory. I'm not spending the rest of my life repeating this sisyphusean ordeal.

sisyphusean. Cracker of a word

Lumen

OK, so after further reading I've distilled the most important success factors down to:

1. Sub-base. More is better (and I'm guessing this is relatively cheap in the grand scheme).
2. Edge restraint (incl. haunching), particularly with flexible construction.
3. Drainage: levels, cambers, gutters (properly installed cobbles are impermeable).
4. Natural stone is a worthwhile investment for long-term (vs concrete setts), jointing can be re-done. Although clay pavers are appealing for a more rustic look.

After reading about sub-base/sub-grade pumping I suspect engineers look at roads from the bottom up. Construction is fun.

Now engaging professionals.

I'll post pics if I get this done. Good example or terrible warning, either might serve some use.

deandean

"Sisyphean" is the more-often used variant. Yea I'm going to add this one to my vocabulary, it's cool!
You'll need a really really well prepared base if cobble lock / sets are to stand up to heavy trucks.
I have some granite sets. They are cut cubes of stone and are extremely expensive compared to cobble lock. And sets take longer to lay.
You could also look at pattern-impregnated concrete.

JonathonS

I think cobble-lock looks awful, but that's just me. Stone setts can be very nice if done well, but can be expensive both to buy and lay.

I was considering resin-bound gravel for part of my driveway but was concerned about handling surface-water runoff. I came across permeable (porous) concrete, which is worth checking out (Google and You Tube). It drains directly to ground, and if you use the right aggregate and coloured cement it can look really well.

I don't know how suitable it is for a sloping driveway though.

This video shows a car park application: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rbNznCBKI8

Roadstone do it:https://www.roadstone.ie/products/permeable-concrete/

(I hope those links are ok per the charter, being a fairly general one for a UK co, and a large Irish co....)

Lumen

That porous concrete looks cool.

I got a couple of ballpark quotes for setts from contractors who seemed like they knew what they were doing, and 100 psm incl. VAT was indicated.

Anyone got 35k down the back of the sofa? :eek:

rodge123

Lumen wrote: »

That porous concrete looks cool.

I got a couple of ballpark quotes for setts from contractors who seemed like they knew what they were doing, and 100 psm incl. VAT was indicated.

Anyone got 35k down the back of the sofa? :eek:

Hey Lumen

I'm looking to get about 10m2 of sandstone setts done either side of our sliding gate at entrance soon.

Was that €100 per m2 for labour only?
Any idea how much for setts?

Lumen

That was for everything including VAT. Materials, labour, groundworks.

Sett prices vary a lot depending on dimensions.

e.g. https://www.naturalstoneireland.ie/natural-stone-granite/granite-cobble-cobblestone-setts/

Pricing seems a bit like brickwork. Euro per sett/brick and another for labour.

But these are only ballpark costs for a large area so take with pinch of salt.

My driveway is still in rag order!

tradesman

The most important part of a driveway is not what you see when finished but the sub base. Pretty much like painting... good preperation is vital. Sub base is meant to be laid in layers of 75mm at a time & then compacted.Forget about a whacker plate & use a walk behind pedestrian roller or better still a drive on roller. And keep compacting it. You can never compact enough. Roll up down side to side & diagonslly. I have seen drives where you can see the dishing where the car wheels keep driving over the same tracks.It is not such a straight forward job as some people make it out to be.