Thin wheels no longer recommended?

Shefwedfan

Ok, so I am looking for a new bike. I have started to commute to work at least 2 days a week, if it works then maybe more. Not a huge distance but it's a start

I current have a Gepida Albion 300 which I used this week and really it isnt a long term solution.

I called into Giant today and was going for Hybrid again. While talking to the guys he said they no longer recommend thin tyres to get speed. In fact the tyre size doesn't matter at all, only if you have large ridges on it.

He recommended 2 bikes but said this was the best due to lightness: https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ie/toughroad-slr-2

I am concerned as the wheels are huge, is he correct? seemed to know his stuff

The other option was https://www.giant-bicycles.com/ie/rapid-2

Both are same price....

Alanstrainor

I'm no expert, but that seems an odd recommendation unless you are traveling offroad on your way to work? I would have thought a Giant Rapid would have been the obvious choice for a flat bar road bike.

ED E

What used to be the wisdom is a 23mm was faster than a 25mm which was faster than a 28mm. Now the science shows that a 28 and a 23 are almost identical.

Im not sure theres anything to say 35+ knobblies are also just as fast, in fact I very much doubt that.

Lumen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am concerned as the wheels are huge, is he correct?

No, the tyres are huge. The wheels are the same size as ones on the other bike.

For a given tyre pressure, fat slick tyres have less rolling resistance than thin slick tyres, but since most people run fatter tyres at lower pressures for comfort, the advantage isn't significant.

Fatter tyres are significantly heavier, and will feel slower.

So it doesn't really matter TBH. If you want something that feels nippy, use narrow tyres, if you want something that feels comfy, get wider tyres. You'll go at much the same speed either way.

droidus

Thats crazy talk. Get the rapid.

Shefwedfan

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I'm no expert, but that seems an odd recommendation unless you are traveling offroad on your way to work? I would have thought a Giant Rapid would have been the obvious choice for a flat bar road bike.

My route is on a R road first for 5 minutes then down a country road. This is tarmac but not massively smoother or rough. The usual pot holes.

Then back onto a R road

No off road or anything like that. Well from the shed to front is across the garden

Total distance to work is 10km(it felt like more yesterday:P)

I can do 2 other routes which bring up the distance but are on R roads, better roads, longer distance but should be quicker, at the moment I am trying to get off the main road as I am not used to the traffic

Shefwedfan

Lumen wrote: »

No, the tyres are huge. The wheels are the same size as ones on the other bike.

For a given tyre pressure, fat slick tyres have less rolling resistance than thin slick tyres, but since most people run fatter tyres at lower pressures for comfort, the advantage isn't significant.

Fatter tyres are significantly heavier, and will feel slower.

So it doesn't really matter TBH. If you want something that feels nippy, use narrow tyres, if you want something that feels comfy, get wider tyres. You'll go at much the same speed either way.

Sorry I think you know what I mean. I am a medium bike and yes the tyre is huge....well from the pictures. He didnt have one in stock so I would order it and have in 2 weeks.

Just concerned I order it and then it isnt really what I want.

CramCycle

The rapid has 28mm tyres on it so is plenty big for nippy commuting.

My first question is distance you are covering, its a fine bike for short commutes and you will fly around but long commutes it might be a bit tiring.

Shefwedfan

CramCycle wrote: »

The rapid has 28mm tyres on it so is plenty big for nippy commuting.

My first question is distance you are covering, its a fine bike for short commutes and you will fly around but long commutes it might be a bit tiring.

10km to work and 10km back

Plan is once I get up and running take the other route to get more exercise so 15km each way

CramCycle

Shefwedfan wrote: »

10km to work and 10km back

Plan is once I get up and running take the other route to get more exercise so 15km each way

I'd certainly go for the Rapid out of the two but that is a decent commute for a flat bar bike.

He is also wrong about the tyres that are on the other bike, you would have to swap them out regardless unless you want a really good workout.

Did he have any relaxed geometry road bikes, tourers or CX bikes. Might be more suitable.

Mr. Grieves

I'd get the Rapid. 28mm wide tyres are perfect for commuting on tarmac.

Knobbly tyres are slower and wear quite fast. The width is not so important, the thread pattern and pressure also have an influence on speed/comfort.

Whichever bike you pick, the tyres it comes with aren't the be all and end all. If you don't like them you can replace for around €70 - the supplied tyres often don't have the best puncture protection. In any case you'll be changing them when they wear out.

droidus

I do 30k a day on a flat bar and its fine.

Shefwedfan

CramCycle wrote: »

I'd certainly go for the Rapid out of the two but that is a decent commute for a flat bar bike.

He is also wrong about the tyres that are on the other bike, you would have to swap them out regardless unless you want a really good workout.

Did he have any relaxed geometry road bikes, tourers or CX bikes. Might be more suitable.

It was the Giant shop on Long Mile Road....

I would guess he has everything, I asked for recommendation.

Should I be looking at other brands? I went to Giant as I had one before and loved it

CramCycle

droidus wrote: »

I do 30k a day on a flat bar and its fine.

I have a flat bar that I do 35km a day for a few months over winter but I find my shoulders tired, maybe I did oversell it a bit.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It was the Giant shop on Long Mile Road....

I would guess he has everything, I asked for recommendation.

Should I be looking at other brands? I went to Giant as I had one before and loved it

Nothing wrong with Giant, not my brand of choice but that is more aesthetics than anything. Out of the two, Rapid is my choice. I used to ride one that belonged to a co worker and it was pleasant and nippy. wasn't super fast but oddly felt like it was.

BIGT4464

droidus wrote: »

Thats crazy talk. Get the rapid.

The Rapid has a greater gear range by the look of it. Chain ring is larger, so I would go with that bike.

Shefwedfan

droidus wrote: »

I do 30k a day on a flat bar and its fine.

I know loads of mentions of flat bar but I have no idea what that is, my guess would be the handle bars?

brocbrocach

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I know loads of mentions of flat bar but I have no idea what that is, my guess would be the handle bars?

Yep, handle bars that aren't racer handle bars he means.
I think you'd be more than grand with the flat bar meself.

Shefwedfan

brocbrocach wrote: »

Yep, handle bars that aren't racer handle bars he means.
I think you'd be more than grand with the flat bar meself.

I should have mentioned, I don't want racer handles. Had a bike a few years back, Ridley Orion, great bike but not for me.....

Would prefer the flat bar if that is what it is called

Type 17

Based on your commute, the Rapid with 25mm tyres (or 28mm, if they fit) is for you - the Toughroad is a quasi-ATB for mild off-road activities and, as such has ATB gear ratios, which are less suitable for your needs.

Shefwedfan

Type 17 wrote: »

Based on your commute, the Rapid with 25mm tyres (or 28mm, if they fit) is for you - the Toughroad is a quasi-ATB for mild off-road activities and, as such has ATB gear ratios, which are less suitable for your needs.

Thanks, I think Rapid might be the way to go, also they have in stock so I can pick up straight away....

I was looking on website and even when I compare I don't see the difference between the Rapid 3 and Rapid 2, apart from 150 quid....

They had both in store but he only showed me the Rapid 3.....

Type 17

Shefwedfan wrote: »

...I don't see the difference between the Rapid 3 and Rapid 2, apart from 150 quid....

They had both in store but he only showed me the Rapid 3.....

Generally, the differences between different models in the same range is that the more you spend, the lighter the bike is, and the parts are generally better (examples might include more comfortable grips, better saddle, better tyres and wheels, an extra sprocket on the rear gears, etc).
The frame and forks generally improve through the range - eg: Trek's FX series of hybrids starts off with the economy model, with alu frame and steel forks, then for a few € more, you get alu frame and alu forks, the best-selling models come with alu frame and carbon fibre forks, and the top of the range model has a carbon fibre frame and fork.

cdaly_

I use wide (35mm) slick tyres both commuting and long distance and they're plenty fast and very comfortable. I'd recommend the first choice but swap the tyres for these really nice tyres.

AndrewJRenko

I wouldn't buy any new bike without having had a chance to try it out first. Good bike shops will be happy to loan you a sample of that model for a night or two beforehand.

If your main use will be for commuting, you might want to think about a commuting bike - rack, mudguards, dynamo, maybe even kickstand are all handy for commuting. Think comfort and practicality over speed.

Shefwedfan

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I wouldn't buy any new bike without having had a chance to try it out first. Good bike shops will be happy to loan you a sample of that model for a night or two beforehand.

If your main use will be for commuting, you might want to think about a commuting bike - rack, mudguards, dynamo, maybe even kickstand are all handy for commuting. Think comfort and practicality over speed.

I was thinking of asking them that exact question.

Really all I will need is the mudguards. I don't want any additional extra's if not required.....I have all the extra's on the current bike and they just add serious weight

Shefwedfan

Type 17 wrote: »

Generally, the differences between different models in the same range is that the more you spend, the lighter the bike is, and the parts are generally better (examples might include more comfortable grips, better saddle, better tyres and wheels, an extra sprocket on the rear gears, etc).
The frame and forks generally improve through the range - eg: Trek's FX series of hybrids starts off with the economy model, with alu frame and steel forks, then for a few € more, you get alu frame and alu forks, the best-selling models come with alu frame and carbon fibre forks, and the top of the range model has a carbon fibre frame and fork.

Mentioning the FX series, I guess this is the top of the range?

https://www.trekbikes.com/ie/en_IE/bikes/hybrid-bikes/fitness-bikes/fx/fx-3-disc/p/21572/?colorCode=black

cython

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Mentioning the FX series, I guess this is the top of the range?

https://www.trekbikes.com/ie/en_IE/bikes/hybrid-bikes/fitness-bikes/fx/fx-3-disc/p/21572/?colorCode=black

That's firmly middle of the range to be honest. With Trek generally within a given range, the higher the model number, the better the bike, and FX goes all the way to 6 from the 3 you linked (there are lower as well): https://www.trekbikes.com/ie/en_IE/bikes/hybrid-bikes/fitness-bikes/fx/fx-sport-6/p/21563/?colorCode=black would be the top of the range FX hybrid.

That's not to say the one you've linked isn't perfectly adequate for your purposes, mind! In fact I'd be a little confused by someone buying a 2300 euro hybrid personally, but I'm sure someone has a use case for it.

C3PO

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Good bike shops will be happy to loan you a sample of that model for a night or two beforehand.

Really? I’ve never heard of a bike shop in Dublin that will lend a bike overnight unless they have known the customer previously. A spin around the car park is as much as you can usually get. In fairness how many bike shops would have demo models of the range that they sell?

Shefwedfan

cython wrote: »

That's firmly middle of the range to be honest. With Trek generally within a given range, the higher the model number, the better the bike, and FX goes all the way to 6 from the 3 you linked (there are lower as well): https://www.trekbikes.com/ie/en_IE/bikes/hybrid-bikes/fitness-bikes/fx/fx-sport-6/p/21563/?colorCode=black would be the top of the range FX hybrid.

That's not to say the one you've linked isn't perfectly adequate for your purposes, mind! In fact I'd be a little confused by someone buying a 2300 euro hybrid personally, but I'm sure someone has a use case for it.

Remember, you have people who will spend 100k on a car to drive the kids to school when it would be quicker and easier to walk :P

That's a small bit out of my price range. Trying to keep in the bike2work scheme or a little above it.

Looking at the Trek they look nice as well.

As I know extremely little about bikes and reviews are scare, which would be better? Giant or Trek? am I missing out on a good brand?

I want something as light as possible without costing a fortune

C3PO

The Giant would be fine but personally I would prefer the specification on this Cube:
https://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=119163

A couple of lads in work commute on them and give very positive reviews. They look much better than the Giant IMHO!

AndrewJRenko

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I was thinking of asking them that exact question.

Really all I will need is the mudguards. I don't want any additional extra's if not required.....I have all the extra's on the current bike and they just add serious weight

So you won't need a dynamo for winter commuting? You'll definitely have lights charged up every day? A rack and panniers is much more comfortable for commuting than a backpack.

C3PO wrote: »

Really? I’ve never heard of a bike shop in Dublin that will lend a bike overnight unless they have known the customer previously. A spin around the car park is as much as you can usually get. In fairness how many bike shops would have demo models of the range that they sell?

Both Joe Dalys and Think Bike let me take bikes overnight. They'd possibly have known my face from occasional maintenance jobs (though the maintenance guys are generally separate from the sales guys in Think Bike). It didn't seem to be a big deal for either of them.

Shefwedfan

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you won't need a dynamo for winter commuting? You'll definitely have lights charged up every day? A rack and panniers is much more comfortable for commuting than a backpack.

That would be the plan, I suppose if I can remember to charge the car at night I should remember to charge the lights on the bike

The dynamo still kill you when trying to cycle?

All I will have is macbook....I ordered in a new back pack for cycling from company

I done it the other day with my current back pack and didn't have any issue and it is a monster of a yoke......

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Both Joe Dalys and Think Bike let me take bikes overnight. They'd possibly have known my face from occasional maintenance jobs (though the maintenance guys are generally separate from the sales guys in Think Bike). It didn't seem to be a big deal for either of them.

Both of those not on my approved list:mad:

Phil.x

Ive cycled to work (32km round-trip) on a giant rapid with 23mm tyres, very quick bike.

cdaly_

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The dynamo still kill you when trying to cycle?

Bottle dynamo is noisy and a bit of drag. Works fine for the shopper bike though.

For the commuter/audax bike I use a hub dynamo and you're pretty much unaware of it whether lit or not.

cdaly_

Phil.x wrote: »

Ive cycled to work (32km round-trip) on a giant rapid with 23mm tyres, very quick bike.

So have I (25mm tyres). I'm now on a Thorn on 35mm tyres and it's just as quick but much comfier. The Giant feels much harsher now...

Shefwedfan

Ok, a little bit further but a little bit more confused...went to shop this morning and the options now are:
Cube SL Road Race (https://www.cube.eu/en/2017/road-triathlon/sl-road/cube-sl-road-race-blacknflashgreen-2017/)
Merida Speeder 200
Giant Rapid 2

I took the Giant for a spin and lovely bike, exactly as I had expected

The Merida was actually very very similar, you really couldn't tell them apart and it is a small bit cheaper, if I wanted to sell in a few years would the Giant sell quicker?

The unknown was the Cube, I had discounted them due to riding position but they had a special on the SL Road Race, he said it was a higher spec that the rest of the bikes and a great price. What do people think? It has 200 off it

Type 17

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ok, a little bit further but a little bit more confused...went to shop this morning and the options now are:
Cube SL Road Race (https://www.cube.eu/en/2017/road-triathlon/sl-road/cube-sl-road-race-blacknflashgreen-2017/)
Merida Speeder 200
Giant Rapid 2

I took the Giant for a spin and lovely bike, exactly as I had expected

The Merida was actually very very similar, you really couldn't tell them apart and it is a small bit cheaper, if I wanted to sell in a few years would the Giant sell quicker?

The unknown was the Cube, I had discounted them due to riding position but they had a special on the SL Road Race, he said it was a higher spec that the rest of the bikes and a great price. What do people think? It has 200 off it

Merida is a lesser-known brand, and the Giant would be easier to sell, but the Merida's aren't too bad in general.

The Cube may be reduced because no one likes the riding position, and it's not selling as a result(?) A bike which has a riding position that you don't like will drive you mad - if you like the position, fine, but don't be tempted unless you're sure...

Shefwedfan

Type 17 wrote: »

Merida is a lesser-known brand, and the Giant would be easier to sell, but the Merida's aren't too bad in general.

The Cube may be reduced because no one likes the riding position, and it's not selling as a result(?) A bike which has a riding position that you don't like will drive you mad - if you like the position, fine, but don't be tempted unless you're sure...

The guy was pushing the Merida hard and said they sell the most bikes in the World after Giant? It was 100 quid cheaper to the Giant

It was fairly similar to the Giant in terms of ride and similar weight

Really only interested in Cube due to reduction in price....

Type 17

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The guy was pushing the Merida hard and said they sell the most bikes in the World after Giant? It was 100 quid cheaper to the Giant

It was fairly similar to the Giant in terms of ride and similar weight

Really only interested in Cube due to reduction in price....

He might have said that because Merida have a big share in Specialized, who would have big market share after Giant and Trek, but to say that Merida are no.2 after Giant is a bit of a stretch...

Cubes are fine bikes, but never buy anything, at any price, if you don't feel the riding position is for you.

saccades

Merida are huge, they make all of specialized bikes and are the OEM for hundreds of other brands in their state of the art facilities in taiwan & China plus have r&d in Germany.

Started to push their brand back in the 90s (used to make the Carrera bikes for Halfords) but they have never really been pushed in UK/IRE as they were very xc/marathon orientated which was mainland Europe (first full suss to win a round of the xc world championship).

Think they tread the fine line of wanting to sell direct/own brand for a better profit margin but don't want to annoy their massive range of clients by taking too many of their sales.

Shefwedfan

Thank you everyone for the advice. I am waiting for voucher and probably a bad thing as I keep looking around.

I found the following article http://www.cyclingweekly.com/group-tests/hybrid-bikes-buyers-guide-206065

It recommends the Giant Escape 1 Disc as one of the best hybrid.

The Giant Rapid 2 is coming in just under the 1k so when I put mudguard/bottle in I will be over it...

Just wondering is the Escape a decent bike? Or should I look at the Merida instead of the Giant which is coming in at 850 and leave me a few quid to buy extras....

I dont mind going over the 1k but not sure if worth it because the guy in shop says the Merida is just as good as the Giant

Thanks again

saccades

Those are hard to answer questions... Is a Giant own brand handlebar better than a Merida own brand handlebar?

Who really knows...

At this price point and if it's made by a mainstream manufacturer you are not going to get a bad bike.

I'd be more concerned with fit, purpose and colour.

Get the right size.
Get the right bike, the two you have mentioned (escape and rapid) are designed for different purposes, what do you want to do on the bike?
Get the red one, red ones are faster

Shefwedfan

saccades wrote: »

Those are hard to answer questions... Is a Giant own brand handlebar better than a Merida own brand handlebar?

Who really knows...

At this price point and if it's made by a mainstream manufacturer you are not going to get a bad bike.

I'd be more concerned with fit, purpose and colour.

Get the right size.
Get the right bike, the two you have mentioned (escape and rapid) are designed for different purposes, what do you want to do on the bike?
Get the red one, red ones are faster

I wasn't asking about the handle bar:P

More the Shimano shifter etc as I have no idea....

All the options come in the right size

Both the Escape and Rapid are hybrid. According to Giant website both are aimed towards casual cyclist....

I included already what I wanted to do.....

Borderfox

I got my partner a giant dash 3 on the b2w in an xs its 8.9kg, lovely bike and flies along really easily so the rapid should be in for the win

saccades

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I wasn't asking about the handle bar:P

More the Shimano shifter etc as I have no idea....

All the options come in the right size

Both the Escape and Rapid are hybrid. According to Giant website both are aimed towards casual cyclist....

I included already what I wanted to do.....

Rapid is a fast commuter hybrid, escape is a potter around machine. Both an Impreza and a landcruiser are 4x4s but completely different.

Anywhos, I'd suggest the bike that you like the looks of and you can still afford a helmet and a lock after purchasing.

The differences are incremental and not really something to get too stressed over.

Shefwedfan

saccades wrote: »

Rapid is a fast commuter hybrid, escape is a potter around machine. Both an Impreza and a landcruiser are 4x4s but completely different.

Anywhos, I'd suggest the bike that you like the looks of and you can still afford a helmet and a lock after purchasing.

The differences are incremental and not really something to get too stressed over.

Thanks, I didn't notice the difference

No stress
As mentioned I am waiting for the B2W money to show up so just looking around.....

Have helmet etc....really just wanted mud guards, over trousers and water bottle

AndrewJRenko

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Thanks, I didn't notice the difference

No stress
As mentioned I am waiting for the B2W money to show up so just looking around.....

Have helmet etc....really just wanted mud guards, over trousers and water bottle

The usual advice is that you should spend about 10% of the cost of the bike on your lock.

Shefwedfan

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The usual advice is that you should spend about 10% of the cost of the bike on your lock.

This is second bike to work. On first I got Abus Plus lock which was recommendd by the shop, think it was around 100 quid