Can/Should i report gardai texting while driving?

lifeandtimes

Serious question

Over the last month alone i have witnessed 4 gardai driving squad cars while texting and im wondering if i can or should report them?

I know guards are given certain liberties( as they should be for the job they do) on the job but i cant help but feel uneasy when ive seen them driving and texting at the same time without paying attention to the road.

Is this a matter i should be reporting or are they allowed to do it?

artanevilla

They are exempt from the rules of the road.

lifeandtimes

artanevilla wrote: »

They are exempt from the rules of the road.

I see, thanks for clearing that up for me.

Still doesnt make me feel any better seeing them do it though. I have a dash holder for mine and only use it answer calls, would never risk texting and i make sure my kids know too

Kuva

artanevilla wrote: »

They are exempt from the rules of the road.

Can't be, surly?

dieselbug

And who would report them to?

o1s1n

Kuva wrote: »

Can't be, surly?

When on duty, yes. Can park on double yellows, break red lights, do u turns etc. They need to as part of their job.

splinter65

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Serious question

Over the last month alone i have witnessed 4 gardai driving squad cars while texting and im wondering if i can or should report them?

I know guards are given certain liberties( as they should be for the job they do) on the job but i cant help but feel uneasy when ive seen them driving and texting at the same time without paying attention to the road.

Is this a matter i should be reporting or are they allowed to do it?

There’s nothing to stop you from writing to the Sargent at your local Garda station to tell him/her how disappointed you are to see Gardai giving such a bad example

ayux4rj6zql2ph

This post has been deleted.

Really Interested

o1s1n wrote: »

When on duty, yes. Can park on double yellows, break red lights, do u turns etc. They need to as part of their job.

AGS is covered by much of the Road Traffic Acts while on duty except where they are legally exempted as in holding a mobile phone

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2006/act/23/section/3/enacted/en/html

See subsection 3

“2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a member of the Garda Síochána, an ambulance service or a fire brigade of a fire authority (within the meaning of the Fire Services Act 1981 ) who is acting in the course of his or her duties and holding a mobile phone in relation to the performance of his or her duties.”

If that subsection was not there then section 3 would apply to AGS.

Really Interested

splinter65 wrote: »

There’s nothing to stop you from writing to the Sargent at your local Garda station to tell him/her how disappointed you are to see Gardai giving such a bad example

But the Act excludes them from the prohibition so what bad example they are allowed.

Alun

artanevilla wrote: »

They are exempt from the rules of the road.

But not from the rules of nature and physics. If a member of the general public is judged to be incapable of texting and driving then they should be too, they aren't super-human.

TheBoyConor

As said Gardai can text and make calls as part of their job and for that they are exepmt from the relevant rules. However, I'm certain that this is not always the case that it is work related. I'm sure there is plenty snapchatting and whatsapping going on aswell.

Nothing to stop you complaining it OP, but I absolutely guarantee you 100% that nothing will come of it.
The seargent would just say they are exempt for work purposes. What do you expect the seargent to do OP? Undermine their team by agreeing that they are using their phones for non-work purposes while driving?

TBH, you've a very naive view on this OP. You'd only be wasting your and the sergeants time going in complaining about it and you'd be making a bad rep for yourself as a complainer and a trouble maker. If you go making waves about this you are more likely to be recognised by a Garda who could pull you and see if they can do you over a blown tail light or an overly worn tyre, or no light on your bike or whatever.

It's just called living in the real world op.
Just forget about this and get on with your life.

Really Interested

Alun wrote: »

But not from the rules of nature and physics. If a member of the general public is judged to be incapable of texting and driving then they should be too, they aren't super-human.

No they are not but they are exempt from the law, if you have issue with that go to your local TD and ask him or her to try and amend the legislation.

There is also an exemption for you and me

7) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (3), in relation to holding a mobile phone while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle, or under subsection (6), in relation to the use of a mobile phone or an in-vehicle communication device, to show that he or she was—

(a) using it to call the Garda Síochána, an ambulance, fire or other emergency service on numbers prescribed for such service, or

(b) involved in or acting in response tO”

lifeandtimes

Alun wrote: »

But not from the rules of nature and physics. If a member of the general public is judged to be incapable of texting and driving then they should be too, they aren't super-human.

I agree here, what will it take? a guard injuring someome while texting and driving at the same time to eventually have that part removed?

They are exempt from things that help with their job but surly texting while driving is putting people at risk and really shouldnt be allowed

TheBoyConor

lifeandtimes wrote: »

I agree here, what will it take? a guard injuring someome while texting and driving at the same time to eventually have that part removed?

They are exempt from things that help with their job but surly texting while driving is putting people at risk and really shouldnt be allowed

Yeah but even if they did hit and kill someone, realistically how can you prove that they were not using the phone for garda business? Like unless the phone was recovered with a half typed snapchat of a cat in a box that the garda was sending to their buddy it would be impossible.
They would just say "oh I was literally just about to phone the station, or another garda or whatever" .

Again, naive fantasising.

splinter65

Really Interested wrote: »

But the Act excludes them from the prohibition so what bad example they are allowed.

Legalities aside, a Garda on duty in a Garda car texting while driving is giving a bad example to onlookers who look to the Gardai for reassurance.
I can’t see anything wrong with pointing that out to the Sargeant or the Superintendent .

lifeandtimes

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Yeah but even if they did hit and kill someone, realistically how can you prove that they were not using the phone for garda business? Like unless the phone was recovered with a half typed snapchat of a cat in a box that the garda was sending to their buddy it would be impossible.
They would just say "oh I was literally just about to phone the station, or another garda or whatever" .

They would have to have the proof on their phone they made the call etc and it cant be fabricated. but we are talking about texting,not calling

Either way if a guard is "texting" the station and driving and does indeed kill someone i can see there being a public outrage and the legislation changing very quickly to remove it

cajonlardo

Alun wrote: »

But not from the rules of nature and physics. If a member of the general public is judged to be incapable of texting and driving then they should be too, they aren't super-human.

I've nearly 40 years driving experience including army, close protection and emergency services and all the training courses that entails.

I only speak for myself - there is no way I'd text and drive. No way I'd read a text or use a phone.

People confuse luck with skill and sooner or later luck runs out.

padser

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Yeah but even if they did hit and kill someone, realistically how can you prove that they were not using the phone for garda business?

Phones and messaging services tend to keep records of messages sent and the times they were sent at.

It would be trivially easy after a fatal crash to go through the phone and determine there was non work related activity during the period of driving.

There might be a potential argument that if the phone was used at any point for business during the drive that the entire use of the phone falls under the exemption - but I wouldn't want to be trying to rely on that interpretation.

In this day and age of hands free sets, its completely unnecessary to have an exemption for anyone using their phone while driving. It should be removed before the uproar following someone being killed

TheBoyConor

splinter65 wrote: »

Legalities aside, a Garda on duty in a Garda car texting while driving is giving a bad example to onlookers who look to the Gardai for reassurance.
I can’t see anything wrong with pointing that out to the Sargeant or the Superintendent .

No, there is nothing wrong with it. But you won't get anywhere with it. All you will do is irritate the seargent and that won't go in your favour if you happen to be pulled by them at a checkpoint at a future date. They'll be thinking "oh great, here is that pain in the hole that complained us over using phones - check his tyres, check his lights, check his NCT, breathalyse him, find something we can do him for".
That is a more pragmatic view of it.

lifeandtimes wrote: »

They would have to have the proof on their phone they made the call etc and it cant be fabricated. but we are talking about texting,not calling

Either way if a guard is "texting" the station and driving and does indeed kill someone i can see there being a public outrage and the legislation changing very quickly to remove it

Sure they could just say they were typing in the phone number about to make the call when the crash occurred. Or they were just on the cusp of typing a message to another garda. A garda's testimony in court holds a lot of weight.

polydactyl

Of course they use the “exemptions” for personal reasons. I suspect we all would but it’s is annoying. Nearly every morning a Garda car blocks the bus lane outside a certain pub/catering establishment in Dorset st cause traffic problems as the busses suddenly have to exit their lane. I am pretty sure the establishment is not getting raided every morning and more likely the breakfast/lunch orders are being submitted but nothing anyone can do about it except stare angrily as you pass it!

GM228

Really Interested wrote: »

AGS is covered by much of the Road Traffic Acts while on duty except where they are legally exempted as in holding a mobile phone

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2006/act/23/section/3/enacted/en/html

See subsection 3

“2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a member of the Garda Síochána, an ambulance service or a fire brigade of a fire authority (within the meaning of the Fire Services Act 1981 ) who is acting in the course of his or her duties and holding a mobile phone in relation to the performance of his or her duties.”

If that subsection was not there then section 3 would apply to AGS.

Rather they are exempted from much of the RTAs whilst in the performance of their duties, in fact they are exempt from all of the requirements of the RTAs 1961-2010 except the following:-

• Driving without reasonable consideration.
• Careless driving.
• Dangerous driving.
• Prohibition on a driving mechanically propelled vehicle while under influence of an intoxicant or if exceeding alcohol limits.
• Prohibition on being in charge of mechanically propelled vehicle while under influence of
  intoxicant or if exceeding alcohol limits.
• Preliminary impairment testing.
• Obligation to provide breath, blood or urine specimens following arrest.

The interesting thing about the Road Traffic Act 2006 is that Gardaí are already exempted from S3 by virtue of S87 of the Road Traffic Act 2010 which does not qualify the exemption with the use being "in relation to the performance of his or her duties" stipulation, it simply affords the exemption whilst driving a vehicle in the performance of their duties. Even if subsection 3 was absent they would still be exempted.

The important point to make about exemptions to the RTAs for emergency services as they are not absolute as they are subject to not endangering the safety of road users.

lifeandtimes

GM228 wrote: »

The important point to make about exemptions to the RTAs for emergency services as they are not absolute as they are subject to not endangering the safety of road users.

So this would be where i would be raising the question, as long as they are not endangering lives they are exempt from road traffic laws so would using a mobile phone while driving be considered dangerous driving and if so does one have a duty to report such matters?

georgina toadbum

OP if I remember correctly you were applying to be a Garda. Are you bitter about not getting accepted? Of course you can report it, I’m sure they’ll take it very serious if you’ve enough to show they weren’t doing as part of their working day.

lifeandtimes

georgina toadbum wrote: »

OP if I remember correctly you were applying to be a Garda. Are you bitter about not getting accepted?.

Nope never applied to be a garda, questioned things regarding it before sure but never applied plus i have no ill feelings towards the Gardai, i think they do a great job and severely underpaid IMO

splinter65

TheBoyConor wrote: »

No, there is nothing wrong with it. But you won't get anywhere with it. All you will do is irritate the seargent and that won't go in your favour if you happen to be pulled by them at a checkpoint at a future date. They'll be thinking "oh great, here is that pain in the hole that complained us over using phones - check his tyres, check his lights, check his NCT, breathalyse him, find something we can do him for".
That is a more pragmatic view of it.



Sure they could just say they were typing in the phone number about to make the call when the crash occurred. Or they were just on the cusp of typing a message to another garda. A garda's testimony in court holds a lot of weight.

I’ve written to the Super at our local station several times sometimes in a complimentary fashion but sometimes to complain.
In the complaints I was always very specific, dates and names of Gardai who I considered rude discourteous and unhelpful.
I’ve always had a civil response from him and I’ve never felt targeted as a result in the way you describe here.
I live in a medium sized town where I would be easily identified if a Garda wanted to.
One of the complaints was particularly damning.
I think if enough customers take the time to make a complaint/pass compliments in writing instead of bitching and moaning on social media then sooner or later things will change.

AnMuinteoirOg

polydactyl wrote: »

Of course they use the “exemptions” for personal reasons. I suspect we all would but it’s is annoying. Nearly every morning a Garda car blocks the bus lane outside a certain pub/catering establishment in Dorset st cause traffic problems as the busses suddenly have to exit their lane. I am pretty sure the establishment is not getting raided every morning and more likely the breakfast/lunch orders are being submitted but nothing anyone can do about it except stare angrily as you pass it!

Thats The Temple, it provides all the meals for the prisoners.

GM228

lifeandtimes wrote: »

So this would be where i would be raising the question, as long as they are not endangering lives they are exempt from road traffic laws so would using a mobile phone while driving be considered dangerous driving and if so does one have a duty to report such matters?

Using a phone in and of itself would not satisfy the test for dangerous driving, other factors come into play and the actions of the driver would need to show a direct, immediate and serious risk to the public before dangerous driving can apply.

Victor

splinter65 wrote: »

There’s nothing to stop you from writing to the Sargent at your local Garda station to tell him/her how disappointed you are to see Gardai giving such a bad example

Isn't the done thing to write to the superintendent.

Really Interested wrote: »

But the Act excludes them from the prohibition so what bad example they are allowed.

Most people won't realise they have an exception and will see it as bad gardaí doing what bad gardaí do.

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Nothing to stop you complaining it OP, but I absolutely guarantee you 100% that nothing will come of it.
The seargent would just say they are exempt for work purposes. What do you expect the seargent to do OP? Undermine their team by agreeing that they are using their phones for non-work purposes while driving?

TBH, you've a very naive view on this OP. You'd only be wasting your and the sergeants time going in complaining about it and you'd be making a bad rep for yourself as a complainer and a trouble maker. If you go making waves about this you are more likely to be recognised by a Garda who could pull you and see if they can do you over a blown tail light or an overly worn tyre, or no light on your bike or whatever.

It's just called living in the real world op.
Just forget about this and get on with your life.

This sounds like it is enabling bad behaviour. "Nothing to see here citizen. Move along."

Really Interested wrote: »

AGS is covered by much of the Road Traffic Acts while on duty except where they are legally exempted as in holding a mobile phone

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2006/act/23/section/3/enacted/en/html

See subsection 3

“2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a member of the Garda Síochána, an ambulance service or a fire brigade of a fire authority (within the meaning of the Fire Services Act 1981 ) who is acting in the course of his or her duties and holding a mobile phone in relation to the performance of his or her duties.”

If that subsection was not there then section 3 would apply to AGS.

GM228 wrote: »

Rather they are exempted from much of the RTAs whilst in the performance of their duties, in fact they are exempt from all of the requirements of the RTAs 1961-2010 except the following:-

• Driving without reasonable consideration.
• Careless driving.
• Dangerous driving.
• Prohibition on a driving mechanically propelled vehicle while under influence of an intoxicant or if exceeding alcohol limits.
• Prohibition on being in charge of mechanically propelled vehicle while under influence of
  intoxicant or if exceeding alcohol limits.
• Preliminary impairment testing.
• Obligation to provide breath, blood or urine specimens following arrest.

The interesting thing about the Road Traffic Act 2006 is that Gardaí are already exempted from S3 by virtue of S87 of the Road Traffic Act 2010 which does not qualify the exemption with the use being "in relation to the performance of his or her duties" stipulation, it simply affords the exemption whilst driving a vehicle in the performance of their duties. Even if subsection 3 was absent they would still be exempted.

Note that Sections 23 / 87 was revised http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/act/3/section/23/enacted/en/html

Amendment of section 87 of Act of 2010 — exemptions for emergency vehicles

23. Section 87 of the Act of 2010 is amended by substituting for subsection (1) the following:

“(1) Requirements under the Road Traffic Acts 1961 to 2010 relating to vehicles and requirements, restrictions and prohibitions relating to the driving and use of vehicles, other than those provided under sections 49, 50, 51A, 52 and 53 of the Principal Act, sections 12, 13 and 15 of the Act of 1994 and sections 4, 5, 11, 12 and 14 of this Act, do not apply to—

(a) the driving or use by a member of the Garda Síochána, an ambulance service (provided by a pre-hospital emergency care service provider recognised by the Pre-Hospital Emergency Care Council established by the Pre-Hospital Emergency Care Council (Establishment) Order 2000 ( S.I. No. 109 of 2000 )) or a fire brigade of a fire authority (within the meaning of the Fire Services Act 1981 ) of a vehicle in the performance of the duties of that member, or

(b) a person driving or using a vehicle under the direction of a member of the Garda Síochána,

where such use does not endanger the safety of road users.”.

Rubberchikken

Its not naive to expect the gardai to drive in such a way that they dont cause an accident/take a life because of texting while driving.

TheBoyConor

You're on a hiding to nothing op.

I suggest you find something more productive to do with your time than issuing serial complaints to the local Garda station.

And whats with sending complimentary letters into the station? WTF, who does that! You seem to have way too much time on your hands.

lifeandtimes

TheBoyConor wrote: »

You're on a hiding to nothing op.

I suggest you find something more productive to do with your time than issuing serial complaints to the local Garda station.

I haven't wrote any complaints to a garda stations, I've opened up a thread to discuss Gardai texting while driving, it's not ridiculous to expect a member of the Gardai to drive with due care and texting while driving is not doing that.

TheBoyConor wrote: »

And whats with sending complimentary letters into the station? WTF, who does that! You seem to have way too much time on your hands.

I suggest you review the thread as you aren't reading the names of posters, I haven't wrote complimentary letters to the guards

TheBoyConor

Huh?
I wasn't addressing you!

Victor

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Huh?
I wasn't addressing you!

lifeandtimes is the OP.

splinter65

Victor wrote: »

Isn't the done thing to write to the superintendent.

Most people won't realise they have an exception and will see it as bad gardaí doing what bad gardaí do.

This sounds like it is enabling bad behaviour. "Nothing to see here citizen. Move along."





Note that Sections 23 / 87 was revised http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2014/act/3/section/23/enacted/en/html

I have no idea what you mean by “not the done thing”!
According to who’s rules?
I write to the superintendent and he writes back. If you ring your local Garda station and ask them who to address a complaint to you will be told it’s the super.
Try it and see.

TheBoyConor

Why would you be bothered tho? So what if you get a polite reply. Doesn't mean in the slightest that anything will change. Do you expect the super to make waves in their ranks because a discruntled citizen with feck all better to do with their time writes in with a well written complaint?
Just because they reply didn't mean they give the slightest shyte about what you think of them.

You're not living in the real world OP, I'm telling you that now.

lifeandtimes

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Why would you be bothered tho? So what if you get a polite reply. Doesn't mean in the slightest that anything will change. Do you expect the super to make waves in their ranks because a discruntled citizen with feck all better to do with their time writes in with a well written complaint?
Just because they reply didn't mean they give the slightest shyte about what you think of them.

You're not living in the real world OP, I'm telling you that now.

You seem quite annoyed by this, why are yoy so bitter?

You wouldn't be as guard that texts while driving are you?