true owners of holding company

beaufoy

I know the answers will be pay a lawyer, but let us have a go anyway. In galway there is a certain address which is used by shell companies. Some time ago the same address was used to register a holding company in order to buy a lot of properties. How do I trace the actual owners of the properties which were purchased

Really Interested

beaufoy wrote: »

I know the answers will be pay a lawyer, but let us have a go anyway. In galway there is a certain address which is used by shell companies. Some time ago the same address was used to register a holding company in order to buy a lot of properties. How do I trace the actual owners of the properties which were purchased

Do a CRO search, identify the directors and share holders. If the shares are held by another company repeat. If the person really wants to hide then they could also use companies in other countries where it may be more difficult to identify the owners.

beaufoy

Really Interested wrote: »

Do a CRO search, identify the directors and share holders. If the shares are held by another company repeat. If the person really wants to hide then they could also use companies in other countries where it may be more difficult to identify the owners.

I already know the names of the directors of the holding company, they are the same people who act as directors of the various shell companies which are registered at the same address as the holding company. I did not know I could do a search for names of all share holders of a holding company at the cro. At this moment of time the directors are claiming that they are the only people who have an interest in the holding company, but I suspect if I can achieve the release of all people who have interests in the holding company, i will find the following.
The directors have a small interest in the holding company
The major holding is in the name of another shell company, then if the interested parties are traced from the second shell company, they will lead to a third shell company which is registered in the names of the people who I believe bought the properties

Indricotherium

beaufoy wrote: »

I know the answers will be pay a lawyer, but let us have a go anyway. In galway there is a certain address which is used by shell companies. Some time ago the same address was used to register a holding company in order to buy a lot of properties. How do I trace the actual owners of the properties which were purchased

The company is the owner.

Fred Swanson

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beaufoy

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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The A1 will give me the names of the directors of the holding company, but I want the names of the people who bought the properties by way of using the holding company to keep their purchase a secret

Robbo

beaufoy wrote: »

The A1 will give me the names of the directors of the holding company, but I want the names of the people who bought the properties by way of using the holding company to keep their purchase a secret

The A1 will list the subscribers (i.e. the initial shareholders at the time of incorporation). A B1 (Annual Return) will list the shareholders as of the date of the return so is much more up-to-date.

You seem fixated on the idea of "shell" companies and them sharing addresses. Very often the registered address of a company will be that of a professional services firm and this is usually for very boring reasons.

Peregrinus

Yup. If you are looking to identify the individuals behind a private company, the address of the registered office is usually no help at all. That's not what the requirement to have a registered office is for, really.

You want the directors and shareholders. And, as others have said, you can get these from the annual returns, which are available from the CRO.

You may find that the shareholders are other private companies, and that you have to drill down through these to identify their directors and shareholders, and so on.

And, however far down you go, you may still only succeed in identifying people who hold the land not on their own behalf, but as trustees for someone else. And since private trusts are not registered anywhere, you may have difficulty identifying who the someone else is.

Mr. Incognito

https://www.cro.ie/Registration/Beneficial-Ownership

Fred Swanson

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Peregrinus

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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The Irish company will be expected to hold records of its ultimate beneficial owners no matter where they are resident and no matter how many intermediate entitles they hold their stakes through, or where those intermediate entities are registered.

Presumably most companies will establish a process for ascertaining this information when shares are first issued, and for keeping it up to date thereafter.

In practice, it's not difficult for the directors of shell companies to know who the ultimate owners are. Who was their client for whom they incorporated the company? Who pays them? From whom do they take their instructions? That should give them a pretty good handle on who they're working for.

From the information to which Mr. Incognito (apt name, that, in this context!) linked, there'll be a process whereby, in cases of doubt, the directors can issue a notice to the person or persons who they believe to be beneficial owners calling on him to say whether they are or not. There'll also be a process for issuing notices to third parties who are believe to be in a position to say who the ultimate beneficial owners are, calling on them to say so.

If all this fails, the "senior managing officials" of the company in Ireland can register themselves as ultimate beneficial owners. (Or they can just resign, which is what I would do if I were an Irish professional in this situation. I wouldn't wish to be acting in a situation in which I had no idea who my principal was.)

beaufoy

I requested a B1 from solo check and it tells me nothing. I know over a million euro of property has been bought in the last twelve months by the company but according to the B1 the company has done nothing. I have contacted the main director of the company who told me he bought a million euro of property using a shell/holding company he had registered just to make the purchase. When I asked him what auction he purchased the property from he told me it was not an auction it was an individual who was having financial difficulties....In actual fact the property was sold to his shell company by a company of receivers. Oh yes the only directors listed are the 2 brothers who admit to be directors. The company has had no transactions...having said that it is a new company so for the first year it can keep its transactions a secret

L1011

A B1 isn't going to have much if anything from the last 12 months. It will have had an obvious date on it before you ordered it...

Fred Swanson

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Losty Dublin

OP, if you have a material or beneficial reason to chase this specific case up then you could make life easier for you by engaging a the services of a Forensic Accountant, especially if you suspect anterior motives. It may well cost you a whack but if there's a potential gain at stake then it could be money well spent.