Judder on braking after tyre change

Bombbastic22

I had two Austone tyres, which the fitter said were made by Bridgestone, put on the front of my car and on the way home felt a judder on braking and a vibration in the steering. I thought maybe it was on account of the tyres having a better grip but then when I took the car on the motorway the judder was a lot more significant.

The car breezed through the NCT a week prior to this and an honest mechanic assured me that the car was 100% and that there was easily 20,000 miles left in my brake pads.

So, I took the car back to the fitters and the first thing he says, without even looking at the car, was that my brake discs were obviously warped.

I insisted he look at the car and he just pulled the wheels off momentarily and said all looked fine but that my brake pads were knackered.

It’s obvious to me the guy is talking nonsense.

I wonder if anyone would have any insight into this and might advise 1.) Can cheap tyres cause this? 2.) Is it possible the tyre fitter may have damaged my brakes in some way.

TheFarrier

I wonder were your wheels balanced correctly when the tyres were fitted.
I doubt new tyres should cause that By themselves no matter how cheap they were

Bombbastic22

TheFarrier wrote: »

I wonder were your wheels balanced correctly when the tyres were fitted.
I doubt new tyres should cause that By themselves no matter how cheap they were

They supposedly were balanced properly. It’s a strange one, and bloody annoying.

mullingar

Firstly you were probably mis-sold on the tyre. If bridgestone made the tyre it would be branded bridgestone. The problem with cheap tyres is there is a much better profit margin on a chinese tyre that a premium tyre so the incentive is to sell the cheap tyre.

Anyway, vibration when driving (usually 90-100k) is usually caused by poor or incorrect balancing. The next three suspects are egg shaped tyre, buckled wheel (these two cause excess run-out) or the driveshaft. Go back and get them rebalanced and watch them to get better than 10 grams.

Vibration when Braking is usually caused by the discs warping slightly. It's impossible to spot with the naked eye as just 0.1mm of a warp can cause this. This normally happens with either cheap discs or you toasted them with lots of heavy Braking causing them to get too hot and cool down crooked.

Hal1

What are they run longs or drive slides?

Jimmyswinnin

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

I had two Austone tyres, which the fitter said were made by Bridgestone.

A quick google of them will tell you they’re made by Chengshan rubber co. in China. I was offered them today but thankfully did some research before I said no thank you. Absolutely nothing to do with Bridgestone. I’m afraid your fitter screwed you there. They’re as cheap as cheap can be and for good reason I suppose.

Bombbastic22

mullingar wrote: »

Firstly you were probably mis-sold on the tyre. If bridgestone made the tyre it would be branded bridgestone. The problem with cheap tyres is there is a much better profit margin on a chinese tyre that a premium tyre so the incentive is to sell the cheap tyre.

Anyway, vibration when driving (usually 90-100k) is usually caused by poor or incorrect balancing. The next three suspects are egg shaped tyre, buckled wheel (these two cause excess run-out) or the driveshaft. Go back and get them rebalanced and watch them to get better than 10 grams.

Vibration when Braking is usually caused by the discs warping slightly. It's impossible to spot with the naked eye as just 0.1mm of a warp can cause this. This normally happens with either cheap discs or you toasted them with lots of heavy Braking causing them to get too hot and cool down crooked.

Thanks. But I had no judder on braking until I changed the two tyres and then had the problem straightaway. I suspect there is a) something very off with the tyres or b) the fitters somehow damaged something when putting them on. I am going to swap them out for two decent tyres as the problem only happened when I changed them. I shall report back when I have done so.

I am so sick of incompetent car industry professionals that can’t even do simple jobs properly.

Bombbastic22

Jimmyswinnin wrote: »

A quick google of them will tell you they’re made by Chengshan rubber co. in China. I was offered them today but thankfully did some research before I said no thank you. Absolutely nothing to do with Bridgestone. I’m afraid your fitter screwed you there. They’re as cheap as cheap can be and for good reason I suppose.

Well, this shower have lost my custom for sure. They’re only codding themselves because I’ll never use them again and will make sure nobody I know does either.

Gone Drinking

Even these Chinese brands needs to pass EU testing and certification to be sold here. So unless you have a defective tyre, you shouldn't be having any vibration issues, no matter how cheap they are.

It is strange, a shudder when braking is nearly always related to the brake disks in my experience. I suppose all you can do is try different tyres if everything else checks out.

There is a push on these premium Chinese brand tyres at the moment. As another poster said, there's a bigger margin for them in it.

I recently bought two tyres from a guy that I would have used a few times. I asked about decent tyres and he pitched me the premium Black Lions. Straight off the bat I knew it was a Chinese job, and I told him I was looking for one of the name brands and could he give me a few prices. He harped on about these Black Lions again then, which was starting to annoy me at this stage.

I know his car because we have the same model and had discussed it previously, so I cut him off and started walking towards his car asking how many Black Lions he has on his, he laughed and said he's got Michelin's before I got there.

So I smiled and said yea, get me the prices for the name brands please.

I bought Bridgestones

Autochange

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

I am so sick of incompetent car industry professionals that can’t even do simple jobs properly.

The pay in the industry is by far the lowest of all trades. Most good techs and fitters leave. You dealt with one of the others group id say.

Yawns

OP go to a different tyre fitter and have the tyres balanced.

Then at some stage get rid of the ****ing cheap **** tyres if you can afford it.

colm_mcm

Put the front wheels on the back and the back on the front if you wanna be sure. Do you know if the guy you dealt with was the boss? Is it a chain?

You were lied to about them being made by Bridgestone, this is misselling plain and simple and happens all the time in tyre sales.

khaldrogo

mullingar wrote:

Firstly you were probably mis-sold on the tyre. If bridgestone made the tyre it would be branded bridgestone........

Absolutely incorrect.

khaldrogo

mullingar wrote:

Vibration when Braking is usually caused by the discs warping slightly. It's impossible to spot with the naked eye as just 0.1mm of a warp can cause this. This normally happens with either cheap discs or you toasted them with lots of heavy Braking causing them to get too hot and cool down crooked.

Absolute rubbish.

Discs do not warp. Judder when braking, if it is actually related to the brakes and not another issue, is caused by run out. Run out is caused by in correct installation. For instance, the hub not being cleaned properly if at all.

mullingar

khaldrogo wrote: »

Absolute rubbish.

Discs do not warp. Judder when braking, if it is actually related to the brakes and not another issue, is caused by run out. Run out is caused by in correct installation. For instance, the hub not being cleaned properly if at all.

Lol.

Discs do warp. I've seen countless numbers of them, even on my own cars. Cheap discs by far warp so much easier than a high grade metal disc and usually gets worse over time. Tell me, have you ever changed any brake discs?

Testing for warped brakes is detailed in every workshop manual and they give exact warp dimensions. Normally this is max 0.1mm.

If you want an old warped disc, I'll post you one, at your expense of course, as they are worthless, even in scrap value


If discs do not warp, why do so many machine shops have dedicated brake disc lathes?

Bombbastic22

Yawns wrote: »

OP go to a different tyre fitter and have the tyres balanced.

Then at some stage get rid of the ****ing cheap **** tyres if you can afford it.

lol will do

Bombbastic22

mullingar wrote: »

Lol.

Discs do warp. I've seen countless numbers of them, even on my own cars. Cheap discs by far warp so much easier than a high grade metal disc and usually gets worse over time. Tell me, have you ever changed any brake discs?

Testing for warped brakes is detailed in every workshop manual and they give exact warp dimensions. Normally this is max 0.1mm.

If you want an old warped disc, I'll post you one, at your expense of course, as they are worthless, even in scrap value


If discs do not warp, why do so many machine shops have dedicated brake disc lathes?

Can discs be warped by overtightening the lug nuts?

mullingar

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

Can discs be warped by overtightening the lug nuts?

Not that I've ever seen.

Oddly, I have seen over tightened nuts causing a balancing issue once as it must have over stressed the alloy, but never a disc.

dmc17

Jimmyswinnin wrote: »

A quick google of them will tell you they’re made by Chengapshanit rubber co. in China. I was offered them today but thankfully did some research before I said no thank you. Absolutely nothing to do with Bridgestone. I’m afraid your fitter screwed you there. They’re as cheap as cheap can be and for good reason I suppose.

Gone Drinking

mullingar wrote: »

Lol.

Discs do warp. I've seen countless numbers of them, even on my own cars. Cheap discs by far warp so much easier than a high grade metal disc and usually gets worse over time. Tell me, have you ever changed any brake discs?

Testing for warped brakes is detailed in every workshop manual and they give exact warp dimensions. Normally this is max 0.1mm.

If you want an old warped disc, I'll post you one, at your expense of course, as they are worthless, even in scrap value


If discs do not warp, why do so many machine shops have dedicated brake disc lathes?

Agreed, have seen plenty of warped disks also.

OP, its unfortunate and I guess by the way you're speaking that you're not going to go back to those guys.

In which case, I would take it to another garage and explain in full what's happened.

Ask them to test drive it and tell them you're willing to buy two tyres off them if it resolves the shaking when braking (assuming you are, going on what you said before).

They'll assume what we all did and remove the wheels to look at the brakes and if as you said is the case, find nothing wrong they'll most likely swap out the tyres for you to see if it resolves it (in hope of an easy sale). But make sure both you and they test it after the new ones are put on to make sure its resolved.

If it isn't, they'll acknowledge it from the test drive and you can start to ask them to look into what is the actual cause. Or you can ask for the original wheels put back on and walk away because you told them you'd buy the tyres if it resolved the issue. They won't have been able to charge you.

It's possible one of these wheels was stuck and the last garage damaged something when bating the wheel to get it off.

Bombbastic22

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Agreed, have seen plenty of warped disks also.

OP, its unfortunate and I guess by the way you're speaking that you're not going to go back to those guys.

In which case, I would take it to another garage and explain in full what's happened.

Ask them to test drive it and tell them you're willing to buy two tyres off them if it resolves the shaking when braking (assuming you are, going on what you said before).

They'll assume what we all did and remove the wheels to look at the brakes and if as you said is the case, find nothing wrong they'll most likely swap out the tyres for you to see if it resolves it (in hope of an easy sale). But make sure both you and they test it after the new ones are put on to make sure its resolved.

If it isn't, they'll acknowledge it from the test drive and you can start to ask them to look into what is the actual cause. Or you can ask for the original wheels put back on and walk away because you told them you'd buy the tyres if it resolved the issue. They won't have been able to charge you.

It's possible one of these wheels was stuck and the last garage damaged something when bating the wheel to get it off.

Solid advice. Cheers. I am fierce wary of garages because I know, from experience, that loads of them will yoink off and replace as many €€€’s worth of parts they think they can get away with.